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Orthogonal to your comment, but Apple could say no and walk away. On the other hand, Google did so, and the cost to them is staggering and the reward negligibl

Orthogonal to your comment, but Apple could say no and walk away. On the other hand, Google did so, and the cost to them is staggering and the reward negligible - they probably regret that decision intensely. It will become a business school case study in why companies shouldn't put ethics ahead of money. The point being that we need a business environment where it makes business sense to stand up to authoritarian regimes.

sshumaker 6y ago
Can you imagine if Google were the ones behind the great filter and panopticon that is the Chinese internet? Corporations are made up of human beings and at some point if you have any values you have to take a stand. The whole current philosophy of maximizing shareholder value falls apart when you realize the selfsame system that enables a free market is deeply intertwined with the impact powerful organizations have on society. And history is clear about what happens when industry enables governments to oppress their citizens. It does not end well for millions of people.
- banjomet 6y ago
  The great firewall was originally built by Cisco, but I don't think anybody remembers that.
  - marcosdumay 6y ago
    Does anybody think Cisco is a honest company with goals aligned with its customers and the betterment of humanity? There's an arrest pending for their (I think former) CEO in case he ever places his feet at my country. For acts he ordered the company to do.
xoa 6y ago
>Orthogonal to your comment, but Apple could say no and walk away. >On the other hand, Google did so, and the cost to them is staggering and the reward negligible - they probably regret that decision intensely. Wait, what? Who did Google do that to that wasn't China? Because the only one I remember is China, and I explicitly acknowledged in my comment that they have the leverage to carve their own rules. Arguably even more-so with Apple than Google, that's one place where Apple's hardware and vertical integration strategy is a definite weakness vs other players rather than a strength. It's certainly not as if Apple has no negotiating chips vs China, but it's clear who likely has the strongest hand. But for Google, was there really a "staggering" cost, or any real cost, over refusing the likes of Saudi Arabia or the UAE? I'd love to read up on that if you could point me to what you're thinking of.
- firecall 6y ago
  "In the Plex" by Steven Levy covers Google first entrance into China. Although the book was published in 2011. I do remember it being a good read at the time, and probably still is!

sshumaker 6y ago

Can you imagine if Google were the ones behind the great filter and panopticon that is the Chinese internet? Corporations are made up of human beings and at some point if you have any values you have to take a stand. The whole current philosophy of maximizing shareholder value falls apart when you realize the selfsame system that enables a free market is deeply intertwined with the impact powerful organizations have on society. And history is clear about what happens when industry enables governments to oppress their citizens. It does not end well for millions of people.

banjomet 6y ago
The great firewall was originally built by Cisco, but I don't think anybody remembers that.
- marcosdumay 6y ago
  Does anybody think Cisco is a honest company with goals aligned with its customers and the betterment of humanity? There's an arrest pending for their (I think former) CEO in case he ever places his feet at my country. For acts he ordered the company to do.

xoa 6y ago

>Orthogonal to your comment, but Apple could say no and walk away. >On the other hand, Google did so, and the cost to them is staggering and the reward negligible - they probably regret that decision intensely. Wait, what? Who did Google do that to that wasn't China? Because the only one I remember is China, and I explicitly acknowledged in my comment that they have the leverage to carve their own rules. Arguably even more-so with Apple than Google, that's one place where Apple's hardware and vertical integration strategy is a definite weakness vs other players rather than a strength. It's certainly not as if Apple has no negotiating chips vs China, but it's clear who likely has the strongest hand. But for Google, was there really a "staggering" cost, or any real cost, over refusing the likes of Saudi Arabia or the UAE? I'd love to read up on that if you could point me to what you're thinking of.

firecall 6y ago
"In the Plex" by Steven Levy covers Google first entrance into China. Although the book was published in 2011. I do remember it being a good read at the time, and probably still is!