5 ms·

That word is: lack of market research. I recently finished up shopping for a Windows laptop. It took awhile, as I balanced price with features. You'd be shock

That word is: lack of market research. I recently finished up shopping for a Windows laptop. It took awhile, as I balanced price with features. You'd be shock how many otherwise decently config'ed offerings lacked a key and basic feature (e.g., backlit KB), or was deficient in some key way (e.g., mid-priced models with only 8 GB RAM soldered, no ability to upgrade). I agree. Some might not need backlit or more than 8 GB but if they do that machine - to them - becomes useless. Lack of sufficient RAM will cuts years off the usefulness of a laptop. I'm not sure how such small thinking helps the brand, loyality, etc. Do these companies not understand?

jjeaff 6y ago
I don't think it's that so much as the need to convince consumers to upgrade as often as possible even when what they have already works perfectly. I think they actually do a lot of market research. They know that people like you and I might buy a good product that meets our needs and keep it for 5 years or more. But the bulk of their profits are coming from people who have to buy the newest whizbang model - and it has to look different - or else how will everyone know that you have the newest whizbang model?
- WalterBright 6y ago
  If they want to impress me, a better display would do it. I have an endless desire for more pixels and more resolution.
LeifCarrotson 6y ago
I'd argue too much, not too little market research is the problem. They just have wrong (ok, misaligned) objectives. Soldered RAM is invisible on the table at Best Buy, but the price savings to the manufacturer are very visible on their balance sheet. In fact, a laptop that becomes useless and you need to upgrade from 8 GB soldered RAM to one with 16 GB soldered RAM after 2 years is more than twice as profitable as one that a consumer stuck a new SODIMM stick in and used for 4+ years. Companies understand that very well, and the average consumer hasn't been able to prove that they are even aware of these problems.
- chiefalchemist 6y ago
  Perhaps. But more landfill trash? That sounds like a 20th Century business model. But to your point, let's take it a step further. Most people aren't going to bother to upgrade their RAM. It's likely they won't even know. Even so after three years they'll want some new feature. But who do you give that to? At least if the RAM could be upgraded, it could have some added use. I'm not so sure that bonus round is being filled with new hardware. Put another way, a used Brand X is good shape would be a gateway to a new customer and a new purchase next time. Why not lease laptops to the consumer market? Or offer trade-up deals like phones? There's got to be a way that's better for consumers, the environment, and manufacturers.
  - jhoechtl 6y ago
    Economy and ethics is not a partnership made in heaven.
    - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
      Economy in the purest sense is, but financial profit is not. People seem to confuse economy with financial functions. Companies seem to do most things for financial reasons, particularly profit to owners, not economic reasons. I think this distinction is important as "economics" hides the egregious use of business for financial gain at the cost of much else in society.
pishpash 6y ago
You're overthinking it, it's some PM justifying his or her own job in a company flush with so much cash it doesn't know what to do with it.
mancerayder 6y ago
> (e.g., mid-priced models with only 8 GB RAM soldered, no ability to upgrade). Aw, man, that's been a sticking point for years, that magic 8G. I don't know how they do it, but 8G of RAM has been the ever-soldered / or mid-range / you-need-to-pay-more-for-the-next-model-up thing for at least 5-6 years now. Even a web browser can eat up that 8G if it's hungry enough.
- nuker 6y ago
  For some CPUs 8G is the maximum amount, makes sense soldering it. J4105 for example on my SBC.
  - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
    That CPU is like embedded or Netbook/rock bottomn class computer, thats bot the limitatin most computers are saddled with
- jakub_g 6y ago
  Until ~2015 4GB were the only reasonably priced option for crazy long as well. I've been waiting ~3 years looking for a new laptop, as replacing an old 3GB one with new 4GB one was hardly an upgrade.
dehrmann 6y ago
> That word is: lack of market research. Market research said the iPhone would be a flop. Most of the time, it's right, but every once in a while, you'll miss an opportunity if you follow market research too closely.
- Traster 6y ago
  Is there actually market research that said the iPhone would be a flop? Becuase I remember the launch, and people went wild. This just sounds to me like one of those stories people tell but isn't true. People didn't want a bad iPhone, sure, but that's not the same thing.
aksss 6y ago
I think 16 is getting to the end of its usefulness in a laptop these days, but finding ultrabooks with 32 is still rather difficult (surface, XPS, ...?). Truth is the OEMs are just trying to move product, their mission isn’t to be the rising tide that improves compute capability for society. High competition, low margin business in the PC world and most consumers don’t know enough about computers to understand what they’re buying - just look at how many people buy “gaming” computers at Walmart or Costco.
- mattmanser 6y ago
  Really? I got a 16gb laptop in Feb 2015 and I' doubt I'd get more than that if I bought a new one today. I've never seen it get even close to max memory. Work-wise, at least. If it was a gaming machine I'd probably buy 32gb.
  - vbezhenar 6y ago
    AFAIK only few months ago Intel released CPU with LPDDR5 support. And LPDDR4 does not support more than 16 GB. Not sure about AMD.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  This baby is doing just fine with 8GB.
- Normille 6y ago
  >I think 16 is getting to the end of its usefulness in a laptop these days.. Seriously? What are you people doing on your laptops to need so much RAM? I'm producing graphics and doing image manipulation on a 7 1/2 year old MacBook Air with 8GB RAM [I've even done the occasional bit of video editing] and I've never felt that it was struggling.

jjeaff 6y ago

I don't think it's that so much as the need to convince consumers to upgrade as often as possible even when what they have already works perfectly. I think they actually do a lot of market research. They know that people like you and I might buy a good product that meets our needs and keep it for 5 years or more. But the bulk of their profits are coming from people who have to buy the newest whizbang model - and it has to look different - or else how will everyone know that you have the newest whizbang model?

WalterBright 6y ago
If they want to impress me, a better display would do it. I have an endless desire for more pixels and more resolution.

LeifCarrotson 6y ago

I'd argue too much, not too little market research is the problem. They just have wrong (ok, misaligned) objectives. Soldered RAM is invisible on the table at Best Buy, but the price savings to the manufacturer are very visible on their balance sheet. In fact, a laptop that becomes useless and you need to upgrade from 8 GB soldered RAM to one with 16 GB soldered RAM after 2 years is more than twice as profitable as one that a consumer stuck a new SODIMM stick in and used for 4+ years. Companies understand that very well, and the average consumer hasn't been able to prove that they are even aware of these problems.

chiefalchemist 6y ago
Perhaps. But more landfill trash? That sounds like a 20th Century business model. But to your point, let's take it a step further. Most people aren't going to bother to upgrade their RAM. It's likely they won't even know. Even so after three years they'll want some new feature. But who do you give that to? At least if the RAM could be upgraded, it could have some added use. I'm not so sure that bonus round is being filled with new hardware. Put another way, a used Brand X is good shape would be a gateway to a new customer and a new purchase next time. Why not lease laptops to the consumer market? Or offer trade-up deals like phones? There's got to be a way that's better for consumers, the environment, and manufacturers.
- jhoechtl 6y ago
  Economy and ethics is not a partnership made in heaven.
  - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
    Economy in the purest sense is, but financial profit is not. People seem to confuse economy with financial functions. Companies seem to do most things for financial reasons, particularly profit to owners, not economic reasons. I think this distinction is important as "economics" hides the egregious use of business for financial gain at the cost of much else in society.

pishpash 6y ago

You're overthinking it, it's some PM justifying his or her own job in a company flush with so much cash it doesn't know what to do with it.

mancerayder 6y ago

> (e.g., mid-priced models with only 8 GB RAM soldered, no ability to upgrade). Aw, man, that's been a sticking point for years, that magic 8G. I don't know how they do it, but 8G of RAM has been the ever-soldered / or mid-range / you-need-to-pay-more-for-the-next-model-up thing for at least 5-6 years now. Even a web browser can eat up that 8G if it's hungry enough.

nuker 6y ago
For some CPUs 8G is the maximum amount, makes sense soldering it. J4105 for example on my SBC.
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  That CPU is like embedded or Netbook/rock bottomn class computer, thats bot the limitatin most computers are saddled with
jakub_g 6y ago
Until ~2015 4GB were the only reasonably priced option for crazy long as well. I've been waiting ~3 years looking for a new laptop, as replacing an old 3GB one with new 4GB one was hardly an upgrade.

dehrmann 6y ago

> That word is: lack of market research. Market research said the iPhone would be a flop. Most of the time, it's right, but every once in a while, you'll miss an opportunity if you follow market research too closely.

Traster 6y ago
Is there actually market research that said the iPhone would be a flop? Becuase I remember the launch, and people went wild. This just sounds to me like one of those stories people tell but isn't true. People didn't want a bad iPhone, sure, but that's not the same thing.

aksss 6y ago

I think 16 is getting to the end of its usefulness in a laptop these days, but finding ultrabooks with 32 is still rather difficult (surface, XPS, ...?). Truth is the OEMs are just trying to move product, their mission isn’t to be the rising tide that improves compute capability for society. High competition, low margin business in the PC world and most consumers don’t know enough about computers to understand what they’re buying - just look at how many people buy “gaming” computers at Walmart or Costco.

mattmanser 6y ago
Really? I got a 16gb laptop in Feb 2015 and I' doubt I'd get more than that if I bought a new one today. I've never seen it get even close to max memory. Work-wise, at least. If it was a gaming machine I'd probably buy 32gb.
- vbezhenar 6y ago
  AFAIK only few months ago Intel released CPU with LPDDR5 support. And LPDDR4 does not support more than 16 GB. Not sure about AMD.
pjmlp 6y ago
This baby is doing just fine with 8GB.
Normille 6y ago
>I think 16 is getting to the end of its usefulness in a laptop these days.. Seriously? What are you people doing on your laptops to need so much RAM? I'm producing graphics and doing image manipulation on a 7 1/2 year old MacBook Air with 8GB RAM [I've even done the occasional bit of video editing] and I've never felt that it was struggling.