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It’s interesting that the article does not attribute responsibility. Ultimately, that tanker was under the control of a group of decision-makers and liability
by GreeniFi 6y ago
It’s interesting that the article does not attribute responsibility. Ultimately, that tanker was under the control of a group of decision-makers and liability should be attributed. I say this, because what pollution is in economic terms is the movement of cost from one person’s balance sheet to another’s - whether by hook or by crook. We do ourselves a disfavour when we don’t identify how liability moves.
- samizdis 6y agoAccording to an article in the current edition of Private Eye (a UK magazine): The Safer has sat off our [Yemen] coast, abandoned and rapidly decaying, for the last five years. Our government-in-exile ... claims ownership of the vessel."
- GreeniFi 6y agoPrivate Eye is one of the few publications which identifies this type of detail. I’m a regular buyer. Thanks for sharing.
- samizdis 6y agoI'll add some more from the article, then, repeating the initial quote in full and then carrying on. The Safer has sat off our coast, abandoned and rapidly decaying, for the last five years. Our official government-in-exile, led by the useless President Abdrabbuh Mansur Hadi, claims ownership of the vessel but is squabbling with the Houthis over who gets its load of rapidly degrading crude, estimated to be worth $30m. To make matters worse, Donald Trump is thinking of officially declaring the Houthis as terrorists, just as they were on the verge of allowing UN access to the ship. (This was from PE No. 1537, cover date 18 December 2020.)
- ClumsyPilot 6y agoMy impression is that the decision makers have become very good at creating ambiguity for this exact purpose, there is even a wiki article for 'diffusion of responsibility" For instance McLaren company has a couple thousand kegal entities sprincled around the world, and its is a relatively recent phenomena
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- GreeniFi 6y agoI’ll look up that Wikipedia page. Thanks.
- connorproctor 6y agoThe wikipedia article [1] provides the history. It was used for storage by the government and then fell into the hands of Houthi forces before deteriorating. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FSO_Safer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FSO_Safer
- what2build 6y agoPresumably it’s not hard to read the second paragraph, read that access is controlled by Houthi fighters and Google the name It’s a science website not a political one
- GreeniFi 6y agoThere’s a difference between “control” and “ownership”. And attributing causation is not a political point, it’s a point of fact.
- jonas21 6y agoIn the midst of a civil war, there's not much difference between the two.
- GreeniFi 6y agoFair point.
- what2build 6y agoWho controls property is not a political point? Isn’t that exactly what the legal system is for?
- hn_throwaway_99 6y agoI mean, while I somewhat agree with you, whether you conclude the owners are the Houthis or the Yemeni government, it doesn't really matter that much if a giant spill occurs, the damage will have been done, and trying to get something out of either the Houthis or the govt will be squeezing blood from a stone.
- hanniabu 6y agoThe damage will be beyond a balance sheet
- crumbshot 6y agoAgreed, it just comes across as callous and inhumane to abstract the suffering of our fellow humans and other sentient beings out as merely a business cost. A sadly common motif through, particularly on HN.
- GreeniFi 6y agoIt was my comment and I’d like to reply to that specific point, elaborating my initial comment: a true balance sheet is beyond the purely financial. It covers natural capital and social capital too. It’s only the narrow contemporary understanding of balance sheet that means that so many costs (and gains) are hidden to us and therefore ignored. Part of society’s problem is the phoney baloney system of financial accounting that leaves so much unaccounted for. To refine my initial point: there will be many horrific costs to this mess. Some poor sod will end up paying the cost. If owners think they can escape full liability, they will continue to take risks because they can privatize the profit and socialize the costs.
- crumbshot 6y ago> A true balance sheet is beyond the purely financial. It covers natural capital and social capital too. > To refine my initial point: there will be many horrific costs to this mess. Some poor sod will end up paying the cost. If owners think they can escape full liability, they will continue to take risks because they can privatize the profit and socialize the costs. Thank you for elaborating, I entirely concur with the sentiment of the above, even if we differ on terminology. To refine my original my point too, please consider it a comment on the unfortunate connotations of using the term 'balance sheet' for this concept - without further information, it's unclear if it's being used in a purely business financial context or not.
- 6y ago
- ISL 6y agoThe responsibility is ours. The net downside of such a spill is so extreme that essentially any non-military action necessary to effect a successful extraction of the oil is likely to be worthwhile.
- mschuster91 6y agoGiven the tensions in the region, anything is risky. Perhaps the only ones who could pull it off are the Swiss, but that doesn't solve the question who will pay for the effort, and who will get whatever remains when the salvaged cargo and ship is sold off. My personal wild guess: nothing will happen, the ship will break apart, no one will dare and try to contain it for fear of getting targeted by someone's warship or drone, and only the nations who can afford it will clean up their coasts.
- ars 6y agoThe Swiss? They don't even have a navy as far as I know. Realistically the only one who could do this is the US. But the US may not want to fight the Houthi, which would probably be necessary.
- ISL 6y agoThe US paid the Russians to help them secure their nuclear material in the greatest masterstroke of nonproliferation of all human history, we can do a similar thing with the Houthi. Everyone wins. If a major food supply fails in the Middle East, we might see another mass-migration like that driven by the Syrian conflict. Whether we like it or not, everything today is global.
- nradov 6y agoWhy is this a US responsibility? The UK, France, India, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Russia, and China are all closer and have significant naval forces which could reach that tanker.
- 6y ago