6 ms·

I've been mostly Linux since 2011 and the few times I had to install Win10 for something I've been very displeased. We've fallen quite far in Windows, with ads

I've been mostly Linux since 2011 and the few times I had to install Win10 for something I've been very displeased. We've fallen quite far in Windows, with ads everywhere, hundreds of services that do God-knows-what, fresh installs that break as soon as the updater runs for the first time. I'm really not impressed and I try to use it as little as possible. Just a bloated, unstable mess designed to sell Microsoft's value-added services.

runjake 6y ago
Are people seeing ads in Windows 10? I often hear this, but I've never seen an ad (except MSFT's own ads getting to to try its new Edge browser.)
- Dylan16807 6y ago
  In most, but not all installs, the start menu pre-installs game ads, explorer advertises for onedrive, and the lock screen advertises things on top of the pretty pictures.
  - runjake 6y ago
    Ah ok. I do see almost all of these things, except for the game ads.
  - leonidasv 6y ago
    What drives me nuts is that those ads are also present in the "Pro" edition as well. I could understand MSFT pushing games into start menu for Home users, but doing so for Pro licences is outrageous.
    - R0b0t1 6y ago
      If I have to use Windows I install server. It is missing all of this. But lack of WHQL drivers means it usually won't run on portables.
      - userbinator 6y ago
        It tells you a lot when all of the few Microsoft employees I've met run the server edition of Windows (in this case 2016) on their development machines; these are people who basically have completely legal access to use any of Microsoft's OSs, and they don't pick Win10. The one who I asked about it said it was faster to boot, more responsive, and "less distracting" (probably an euphemism.)
        hobos_delight 6y ago
        I’m a Microsoft employee and I run Linux (with a win10 VM for those times I absolutely need it).
        sterlind 6y ago
        I'm a Softie, and I use Win10. Server 2020 is the same codebase now, I'm not sure there'd be much difference, and I appreciate the creature comforts of the shell. But.. I still get winrot, and my dev environment drives me mad. I've been working on a laptop since covid started, and my dev machine is a VM on the laptop, so it's a nightmare. At home I run NixOS with a Win10 VFIO setup for games. Both Linux and Windows at home are drama-free, but I don't abuse my home computer nearly as much and it's much more powerful than the work laptop.
    - iamtedd 6y ago
      Well, if the user has paid for Windows 10, whether as part of a new machine, or at retail, they shouldn't ever get advertisements in the OS. Even for Home editions. This constant encroachment of advertising into all aspects of life needs to stop. Please.
      - TeMPOraL 6y ago
        Advertising is a cancer on modern society. And people really need to stop expecting that paid products won't show ads. From the POV of the provider, not showing ads would mean leaving money on the table (you likely won't quit paying over just an ad here or there). On top of that, as a paid customer, you self-identify as a real person with disposable income, making yourself much more valuable a target for advertisers.
  - aksss 6y ago
    At least you can still turn off the Lock Screen stuff.. I’ve not seen ads. It’s more random trivia about the geographic location they’re showing. I disable that overlay.
- gjsman-1000 6y ago
  Oh, heck yes. Can I count the ways? - The Start Menu shows "suggested apps" by default - On first install/boot, the Start Menu is preloaded with about 10 sponsored apps, and many of them install automatically even if you don't click them. - These sponsored apps have a tendency to reinstall themselves _even after you just uninstalled them_ if you haven't rebooted your computer at least once or twice after first boot up. - Microsoft Edge ads appear in the Taskbar at times, Action Center at times, and sometimes when you are changing the default browser to Chrome, and sometimes even after Chrome is default. - Windows Explorer occasionally advertises OneDrive. - Most built-in Windows Apps like Weather, News, and Sports contain lots of built-in ads. - The Mail app comes with an "Upgrade to Office 365" button always visible. - Cortana occasionally pops up by itself to ask if you want to use it. And there are ads in her search results and "suggested apps" from her for you. - The default Lock Screen, "Windows Spotlight," occasionally advertises games, Microsoft's latest political agenda, or Bing when your computer is Locked. - Office 365, on new installs or accounts, has links to _every web app_ on the Start Menu by default. - When adding a user, Microsoft will hide the ability to create a Local account not linked to a Microsoft account under, like, 3 pages of advertising for why Microsoft accounts are awesome. - The new Settings app has a new header that is in A-B testing right now, which (among other things) has a big obvious link _in the Settings app_ to Bing/Microsoft Rewards. - Microsoft Edge has, by default, the entirety of MSN as your New Tab page and your Homepage. Plenty of ads on that, and worse, they serve ads from Taboola and Outbrain. Those types of ads with "You won't believe what celebrity XYZ..." or "Take this 2 minute quiz to learn..." kind of junk. (In fact, all of the built-in Windows apps seem to serve Taboola/Outbrain. You just want to check the Weather!) - If you are not signed into OneDrive, OneDrive will inform you of this fact _every single time_ you log in with a giant error message. - If you are not signed into Microsoft Teams, Microsoft Teams will inform you of this fact _every single time_ you log in with an Office 365 Sign-in dialog. It frequently fights with OneDrive to see who can make you sign in first. - The operating system will sometimes randomly pop up with messages from "Windows Tips." While (theoretically) making the experience nicer for new users, the actual Tips app is pretty barebones and really motivates people to click a button to "Learn More"... using Bing search. - If you want to use Google as default search engine on Microsoft Edge instead of Bing, that is a.) extremely nested deep in the UI and hard to find, and b.) if you do manage to find it, there's a three-section ad explaining the "benefits of Bing." And there's still stuff I'm forgetting.
- dEnigma 6y ago
  Some ads take the form of tiles in your start menu. These are there right after installation if I'm not mistaken, but you can easily remove them. Then there are prompts to "finish setting up Windows" which take you to a screen that offers, among other things, a Microsoft Office trial. Apparently there are also adds in Windows Explorer, but I'm not 100% sure I've ever seen them.
- goatinaboat 6y ago
  Are people seeing ads in Windows 10? It’s one of those tropes that keeps getting repeated but on the occasion I have said to someone “show me these ads” it turns out to be a recommendation in the Microsoft Store or something. Apple does those too in its App Store.
craftinator 6y ago
This perfectly sums up my views, being a Linux only user since 2013. Windows used to be so... Less awful. It's like all the people who use it have been slowly trained to accept more and more anti-user features.
- edoceo 6y ago
  All down hill after Windows 2000
- itsthefnlacctdn 6y ago
  Stockholm Syndrome.
stinos 6y ago
It's a bit hard to take this serious because of the hyperbole, but I'll bite on the services bit: how is that different? Supose you didn't use linux for a decade, then went to a linux box with a desktop environment and looked at the process list: how different is that from 'hundreds of services that do Go-knows-what'? I mean I use it daily and don't know what half of them do.
- aruggirello 6y ago
  > how different is that ... I use it daily and don't know what half of them do. knowing what the other half does is usually a couple clicks away on the web, a 'man ...' away in the terminal, sources are usually available at a similar distance, and most of these services can be stopped and (forever?) disabled with a 'systemctl stop/disable ...' (you might even go the extra step and apt remove them). Trimming down stuff that you know you don't need is a pleasure (assuming you know what you're doing), and the end result is a leaner, faster system. Eg. after I installed AnyDesk, I didn't like that it started with the system (I'm paranoid, and I'm only using it occasionally), so I systemctl disabled it. This doesn't stop me from using it when I need (that is, to assist others. In the rare events when I need remote access to my system, I just use a reverse SSH tunnel, which is more practical for me)
  - stinos 6y ago
    You can lookup what processes on windows do as well. You won't get the sources for them usually, but that's what you get for choosing a closed source OS. Similar for disabling them. Since you mention AnyDesk: at least on Windows it also comes as a single portable executable which needs no installation nor extra services i.e. only runs when started manually.
    - formerly_proven 6y ago
      > You can lookup what processes on windows do as well. What does svchost do?
      - 6y ago
m463 6y ago
> Just a bloated, unstable mess designed to sell Microsoft's value-added services. ...by subtracting value It's almost like a zero-sum game.

runjake 6y ago

Are people seeing ads in Windows 10? I often hear this, but I've never seen an ad (except MSFT's own ads getting to to try its new Edge browser.)

Dylan16807 6y ago
In most, but not all installs, the start menu pre-installs game ads, explorer advertises for onedrive, and the lock screen advertises things on top of the pretty pictures.
- runjake 6y ago
  Ah ok. I do see almost all of these things, except for the game ads.
- leonidasv 6y ago
  What drives me nuts is that those ads are also present in the "Pro" edition as well. I could understand MSFT pushing games into start menu for Home users, but doing so for Pro licences is outrageous.
  - R0b0t1 6y ago
    If I have to use Windows I install server. It is missing all of this. But lack of WHQL drivers means it usually won't run on portables.
    - userbinator 6y ago
      It tells you a lot when all of the few Microsoft employees I've met run the server edition of Windows (in this case 2016) on their development machines; these are people who basically have completely legal access to use any of Microsoft's OSs, and they don't pick Win10. The one who I asked about it said it was faster to boot, more responsive, and "less distracting" (probably an euphemism.)
      - hobos_delight 6y ago
        I’m a Microsoft employee and I run Linux (with a win10 VM for those times I absolutely need it).
      - sterlind 6y ago
        I'm a Softie, and I use Win10. Server 2020 is the same codebase now, I'm not sure there'd be much difference, and I appreciate the creature comforts of the shell. But.. I still get winrot, and my dev environment drives me mad. I've been working on a laptop since covid started, and my dev machine is a VM on the laptop, so it's a nightmare. At home I run NixOS with a Win10 VFIO setup for games. Both Linux and Windows at home are drama-free, but I don't abuse my home computer nearly as much and it's much more powerful than the work laptop.
  - iamtedd 6y ago
    Well, if the user has paid for Windows 10, whether as part of a new machine, or at retail, they shouldn't ever get advertisements in the OS. Even for Home editions. This constant encroachment of advertising into all aspects of life needs to stop. Please.
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      Advertising is a cancer on modern society. And people really need to stop expecting that paid products won't show ads. From the POV of the provider, not showing ads would mean leaving money on the table (you likely won't quit paying over just an ad here or there). On top of that, as a paid customer, you self-identify as a real person with disposable income, making yourself much more valuable a target for advertisers.
- aksss 6y ago
  At least you can still turn off the Lock Screen stuff.. I’ve not seen ads. It’s more random trivia about the geographic location they’re showing. I disable that overlay.
gjsman-1000 6y ago
Oh, heck yes. Can I count the ways? - The Start Menu shows "suggested apps" by default - On first install/boot, the Start Menu is preloaded with about 10 sponsored apps, and many of them install automatically even if you don't click them. - These sponsored apps have a tendency to reinstall themselves _even after you just uninstalled them_ if you haven't rebooted your computer at least once or twice after first boot up. - Microsoft Edge ads appear in the Taskbar at times, Action Center at times, and sometimes when you are changing the default browser to Chrome, and sometimes even after Chrome is default. - Windows Explorer occasionally advertises OneDrive. - Most built-in Windows Apps like Weather, News, and Sports contain lots of built-in ads. - The Mail app comes with an "Upgrade to Office 365" button always visible. - Cortana occasionally pops up by itself to ask if you want to use it. And there are ads in her search results and "suggested apps" from her for you. - The default Lock Screen, "Windows Spotlight," occasionally advertises games, Microsoft's latest political agenda, or Bing when your computer is Locked. - Office 365, on new installs or accounts, has links to _every web app_ on the Start Menu by default. - When adding a user, Microsoft will hide the ability to create a Local account not linked to a Microsoft account under, like, 3 pages of advertising for why Microsoft accounts are awesome. - The new Settings app has a new header that is in A-B testing right now, which (among other things) has a big obvious link _in the Settings app_ to Bing/Microsoft Rewards. - Microsoft Edge has, by default, the entirety of MSN as your New Tab page and your Homepage. Plenty of ads on that, and worse, they serve ads from Taboola and Outbrain. Those types of ads with "You won't believe what celebrity XYZ..." or "Take this 2 minute quiz to learn..." kind of junk. (In fact, all of the built-in Windows apps seem to serve Taboola/Outbrain. You just want to check the Weather!) - If you are not signed into OneDrive, OneDrive will inform you of this fact _every single time_ you log in with a giant error message. - If you are not signed into Microsoft Teams, Microsoft Teams will inform you of this fact _every single time_ you log in with an Office 365 Sign-in dialog. It frequently fights with OneDrive to see who can make you sign in first. - The operating system will sometimes randomly pop up with messages from "Windows Tips." While (theoretically) making the experience nicer for new users, the actual Tips app is pretty barebones and really motivates people to click a button to "Learn More"... using Bing search. - If you want to use Google as default search engine on Microsoft Edge instead of Bing, that is a.) extremely nested deep in the UI and hard to find, and b.) if you do manage to find it, there's a three-section ad explaining the "benefits of Bing." And there's still stuff I'm forgetting.
dEnigma 6y ago
Some ads take the form of tiles in your start menu. These are there right after installation if I'm not mistaken, but you can easily remove them. Then there are prompts to "finish setting up Windows" which take you to a screen that offers, among other things, a Microsoft Office trial. Apparently there are also adds in Windows Explorer, but I'm not 100% sure I've ever seen them.
goatinaboat 6y ago
Are people seeing ads in Windows 10? It’s one of those tropes that keeps getting repeated but on the occasion I have said to someone “show me these ads” it turns out to be a recommendation in the Microsoft Store or something. Apple does those too in its App Store.

craftinator 6y ago

This perfectly sums up my views, being a Linux only user since 2013. Windows used to be so... Less awful. It's like all the people who use it have been slowly trained to accept more and more anti-user features.

edoceo 6y ago
All down hill after Windows 2000
itsthefnlacctdn 6y ago
Stockholm Syndrome.

stinos 6y ago

It's a bit hard to take this serious because of the hyperbole, but I'll bite on the services bit: how is that different? Supose you didn't use linux for a decade, then went to a linux box with a desktop environment and looked at the process list: how different is that from 'hundreds of services that do Go-knows-what'? I mean I use it daily and don't know what half of them do.

aruggirello 6y ago
> how different is that ... I use it daily and don't know what half of them do. knowing what the other half does is usually a couple clicks away on the web, a 'man ...' away in the terminal, sources are usually available at a similar distance, and most of these services can be stopped and (forever?) disabled with a 'systemctl stop/disable ...' (you might even go the extra step and apt remove them). Trimming down stuff that you know you don't need is a pleasure (assuming you know what you're doing), and the end result is a leaner, faster system. Eg. after I installed AnyDesk, I didn't like that it started with the system (I'm paranoid, and I'm only using it occasionally), so I systemctl disabled it. This doesn't stop me from using it when I need (that is, to assist others. In the rare events when I need remote access to my system, I just use a reverse SSH tunnel, which is more practical for me)
- stinos 6y ago
  You can lookup what processes on windows do as well. You won't get the sources for them usually, but that's what you get for choosing a closed source OS. Similar for disabling them. Since you mention AnyDesk: at least on Windows it also comes as a single portable executable which needs no installation nor extra services i.e. only runs when started manually.
  - formerly_proven 6y ago
    > You can lookup what processes on windows do as well. What does svchost do?
    - 6y ago

m463 6y ago

> Just a bloated, unstable mess designed to sell Microsoft's value-added services. ...by subtracting value It's almost like a zero-sum game.