7 ms·

I come away from this way more impressed by the M1 than I was going in. It's a comparison of a ~$700 stock, low end full computer Vs. $700 for high end CPU only

I come away from this way more impressed by the M1 than I was going in. It's a comparison of a ~$700 stock, low end full computer Vs. $700 for high end CPU only. And the high end CPU has overclocking tweaks enabled, and overclocked memory. The M1 generally keeps up quite well, which blows my mind. The power use difference Is pretty big as well. Yeah, it would be great if Apple was totally open source. But this is going to push the entire industry to do way better.

kuschku 6y ago
The M1 also has overclocked memory (by spec, DDR4 only supports 3200MHz), and the 5800X isn't a 700$ CPU, actually it's at 450$ (and it will fall even further soon, I bought a 3900x recently for below 400$).
- Scarbutt 6y ago
  Still... $450 for the CPU only vs a $999 laptop, for most use cases the apple's MBA offers much more value and will have slower depreciation.
  - superkuh 6y ago
    So, like normal, the value of a Mac is in appealing to others not doing things on the computer.
    - Ar-Curunir 6y ago
      ? What part of “M1 outclasses every similar laptop” indicates to you that the MBA is a machine targeted at people who don’t do serious computer work (Whatever “serious” means)
      - coldtea 6y ago
        Parent probably associates some value in dishing Apple, the reverse-fan-boy phenomenon.
      - superkuh 6y ago
        First, the article is about performance benchmarks and how the M1 is not some magical entity like the Apple hype train has been screaming. Second, the comment I'm replying to is: >for most use cases the apple's MBA offers much more value and will have slower depreciation. You can build a fine computer with a $400 CPU and $500 left for the rest. One that will absolutely dominate any laptop over a long time span because laptops cannot dissipate heat forever (it's simple a matter of mass and shape).
  - Macha 6y ago
    CPU: $450 (5800x) GPU: $150 (1650 super) Storage: $60 (samsung 970 evo 250gb) PSU: $90 (silverstone sfx 500w 80 plus gold - there's probably cheaper options but most PSUs seem sold out on amazon) RAM: $70 (16gb 3200mhz CL16, gskill or team group) Case: $70 (Silverstone tek) Motherboard: $120 (asrock b550-m itx) There's your $1000 mac killer. I wouldn't call it a sensible build, but it should outperform the mac across the board. Notably the GPU is significantly better but the closest gpu the m1 is to trading blows with is the Radeon 560 which is only $30 cheaper. Also the mac comes with 8gb ram in the base model, and 16gb is a $200 upgrade but I could not find a decent speed 2x4gb ddr4 kit as nobody wants that little ram anymore in a custom build. I could save $40 by going with a 1x8gb kit for $30, but single channel will hurt performance. I'd also consider $30 to go from the 250gb ssd to a 1tb variant, something apple charges $400 for. The reason I wouldn't call it sensible is that the 1650 super is a budget gaming card while the 5800x a higher tier cpu. If you were actually planning to build this for gaming I'd suggest dropping down to the 5600x and putting the extra $100. actually for gaming I'd even suggest squeezing the budget for a 2060 (or even better wait for the standard 3060) by dropping to basic ddr4-2133, and going for standard sized case/psu rather than the small form factor to chase the mac. On the other hand, if you're not gaming and just need a video output, save like 120 bucks and just get a gt 1030. Use that to buy some nicer RAM or more cores via a 5900x depending on what suits your workload better. Sadly you have to get _a gpu_ as Intel is falling behind and AMD won't give us high end APUs in the individual market.
    - ykl 6y ago
      The parent post appears to be discussing a MacBook Air though. The specified machine doesn’t do much good for someone looking for a laptop; I’d be very surprised if the average customer compares a MacBook Air type device with a PC desktop when shopping for a new computer.
    - stickyricky 6y ago
      Doesn't include monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers, webcam, microphone, battery backup, and fingerprint scanner which would be necessary to make it "comparable" to a base model Macbook Air. It also isn't a portable, fanless laptop which has its perks.
  - africanboy 6y ago
    Actually if you buy the 16gb model with the 512GB SSD you'll spend € 1.659,00 in Europe.
- KSS42 6y ago
  M1 uses LPDDR4X at 4267MHz. It is not overclocked.
  - fulafel 6y ago
    Nitpick: It's 4266 MT/s (at 2133 MHz). DDR is 2 transfers per clock.
    - kuschku 6y ago
      If that's true, then it actually is entirely in-spec. I had read several articles claiming it was running at 4266MHz, which would definitely have been extremely out of JEDEC spec, but not unusual for current-gen DDR4 XMP profiles. Some higher-end RAM even gets above 5100MHz / 10200MT/s https://www.crucial.de/memory/ddr4/blm2k8g51c19u4b https://www.crucial.de/memory/ddr4/blm2k8g51c19u4b, so I had expected Apple to get somewhere around 7600-8400MT/s at 16-19-19-36 or better timings.
PaulBGD_ 6y ago
Well, $700 for the CPU + mobo and maybe a cooler. But it really is impressive still.
fvv 6y ago
Why ? Comparison on single core bench is at disadvantage of the bigger cpu not the opposite , the m1 would have seemed even better against a 128 core epic of 7k$.. Wait some weeks and see how it compares to a 5x00u , also consider that apple is 'cheaper' now because are trying to bring more people fast to help transition to arm .. then everyone will be locked in in the ecosystem happy to pay the 30% apple tax for the entire life of the hw
- socialdemocrat 6y ago
  That is kind of conspiratorial sounding. Apple has to charge more than a PC maker which spends almost nothing on build, quality, design, developing and maintaining their own OS and software. Charging more in the premium segment is normal in any industry because you a smaller volume to spread fixed costs over.
  - fvv 6y ago
    I was saying the opposite.. apple could charge even more imo but then leave the hardware free like others do , if you solder everything, firmware lock everything , sell upgrades at 5x the price (and compare the price of the baseline to say.. wow it's cheap ) then apply a tax on all software, now when we compare prices we should account for that also
    - fvv 6y ago
      The entry level is cheap so apple can win some price bench comparison ..also in general I can understand what is marketed like that but I don't have appreciate that btw. why we don't compare the 16gb ram 1tb ssd Mac 2.5kusd against a 700usd 4800u with same spec ? If you are comparing programmers productivity.. or for a better monitor monitor .. ok let's use a 900usd 4800u then.. ok 80% of perf in single core and 140% on multi for less than half the price.. and wait the 5800u and see.. when you compare you have to be fair between the components.. single core bench from 12core 24th vs 4core it's the start of every biased bench
matwood 6y ago
I got an M1 MBA to use until the real pro machines come out. It's much faster than the 2017 MBP it replaced, and does it while staying completely silent. The no fan noise is uncanny...sort of like a 'is this thing working?'. Not scientific at all, but one of my large java app test suites takes ~7 minutes to run on my 2017 MPB and ~3 minutes to run on the M1 MBA using the Azul ARM build. I can't wait for the 16" MBP with Apple Silicon.
- eyelidlessness 6y ago
  Worth noting that the M1 MBA doesn’t have a fan at all, noise-making or otherwise. But the M1 MBP has been similarly described as fan silent, even with its fans running.

kuschku 6y ago

The M1 also has overclocked memory (by spec, DDR4 only supports 3200MHz), and the 5800X isn't a 700$ CPU, actually it's at 450$ (and it will fall even further soon, I bought a 3900x recently for below 400$).

Scarbutt 6y ago
Still... $450 for the CPU only vs a $999 laptop, for most use cases the apple's MBA offers much more value and will have slower depreciation.
- superkuh 6y ago
  So, like normal, the value of a Mac is in appealing to others not doing things on the computer.
  - Ar-Curunir 6y ago
    ? What part of “M1 outclasses every similar laptop” indicates to you that the MBA is a machine targeted at people who don’t do serious computer work (Whatever “serious” means)
    - coldtea 6y ago
      Parent probably associates some value in dishing Apple, the reverse-fan-boy phenomenon.
    - superkuh 6y ago
      First, the article is about performance benchmarks and how the M1 is not some magical entity like the Apple hype train has been screaming. Second, the comment I'm replying to is: >for most use cases the apple's MBA offers much more value and will have slower depreciation. You can build a fine computer with a $400 CPU and $500 left for the rest. One that will absolutely dominate any laptop over a long time span because laptops cannot dissipate heat forever (it's simple a matter of mass and shape).
- Macha 6y ago
  CPU: $450 (5800x) GPU: $150 (1650 super) Storage: $60 (samsung 970 evo 250gb) PSU: $90 (silverstone sfx 500w 80 plus gold - there's probably cheaper options but most PSUs seem sold out on amazon) RAM: $70 (16gb 3200mhz CL16, gskill or team group) Case: $70 (Silverstone tek) Motherboard: $120 (asrock b550-m itx) There's your $1000 mac killer. I wouldn't call it a sensible build, but it should outperform the mac across the board. Notably the GPU is significantly better but the closest gpu the m1 is to trading blows with is the Radeon 560 which is only $30 cheaper. Also the mac comes with 8gb ram in the base model, and 16gb is a $200 upgrade but I could not find a decent speed 2x4gb ddr4 kit as nobody wants that little ram anymore in a custom build. I could save $40 by going with a 1x8gb kit for $30, but single channel will hurt performance. I'd also consider $30 to go from the 250gb ssd to a 1tb variant, something apple charges $400 for. The reason I wouldn't call it sensible is that the 1650 super is a budget gaming card while the 5800x a higher tier cpu. If you were actually planning to build this for gaming I'd suggest dropping down to the 5600x and putting the extra $100. actually for gaming I'd even suggest squeezing the budget for a 2060 (or even better wait for the standard 3060) by dropping to basic ddr4-2133, and going for standard sized case/psu rather than the small form factor to chase the mac. On the other hand, if you're not gaming and just need a video output, save like 120 bucks and just get a gt 1030. Use that to buy some nicer RAM or more cores via a 5900x depending on what suits your workload better. Sadly you have to get _a gpu_ as Intel is falling behind and AMD won't give us high end APUs in the individual market.
  - ykl 6y ago
    The parent post appears to be discussing a MacBook Air though. The specified machine doesn’t do much good for someone looking for a laptop; I’d be very surprised if the average customer compares a MacBook Air type device with a PC desktop when shopping for a new computer.
  - stickyricky 6y ago
    Doesn't include monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers, webcam, microphone, battery backup, and fingerprint scanner which would be necessary to make it "comparable" to a base model Macbook Air. It also isn't a portable, fanless laptop which has its perks.
- africanboy 6y ago
  Actually if you buy the 16gb model with the 512GB SSD you'll spend € 1.659,00 in Europe.
KSS42 6y ago
M1 uses LPDDR4X at 4267MHz. It is not overclocked.
- fulafel 6y ago
  Nitpick: It's 4266 MT/s (at 2133 MHz). DDR is 2 transfers per clock.
  - kuschku 6y ago
    If that's true, then it actually is entirely in-spec. I had read several articles claiming it was running at 4266MHz, which would definitely have been extremely out of JEDEC spec, but not unusual for current-gen DDR4 XMP profiles. Some higher-end RAM even gets above 5100MHz / 10200MT/s https://www.crucial.de/memory/ddr4/blm2k8g51c19u4b https://www.crucial.de/memory/ddr4/blm2k8g51c19u4b, so I had expected Apple to get somewhere around 7600-8400MT/s at 16-19-19-36 or better timings.

PaulBGD_ 6y ago

Well, $700 for the CPU + mobo and maybe a cooler. But it really is impressive still.

fvv 6y ago

Why ? Comparison on single core bench is at disadvantage of the bigger cpu not the opposite , the m1 would have seemed even better against a 128 core epic of 7k$.. Wait some weeks and see how it compares to a 5x00u , also consider that apple is 'cheaper' now because are trying to bring more people fast to help transition to arm .. then everyone will be locked in in the ecosystem happy to pay the 30% apple tax for the entire life of the hw

socialdemocrat 6y ago
That is kind of conspiratorial sounding. Apple has to charge more than a PC maker which spends almost nothing on build, quality, design, developing and maintaining their own OS and software. Charging more in the premium segment is normal in any industry because you a smaller volume to spread fixed costs over.
- fvv 6y ago
  I was saying the opposite.. apple could charge even more imo but then leave the hardware free like others do , if you solder everything, firmware lock everything , sell upgrades at 5x the price (and compare the price of the baseline to say.. wow it's cheap ) then apply a tax on all software, now when we compare prices we should account for that also
  - fvv 6y ago
    The entry level is cheap so apple can win some price bench comparison ..also in general I can understand what is marketed like that but I don't have appreciate that btw. why we don't compare the 16gb ram 1tb ssd Mac 2.5kusd against a 700usd 4800u with same spec ? If you are comparing programmers productivity.. or for a better monitor monitor .. ok let's use a 900usd 4800u then.. ok 80% of perf in single core and 140% on multi for less than half the price.. and wait the 5800u and see.. when you compare you have to be fair between the components.. single core bench from 12core 24th vs 4core it's the start of every biased bench

matwood 6y ago

I got an M1 MBA to use until the real pro machines come out. It's much faster than the 2017 MBP it replaced, and does it while staying completely silent. The no fan noise is uncanny...sort of like a 'is this thing working?'. Not scientific at all, but one of my large java app test suites takes ~7 minutes to run on my 2017 MPB and ~3 minutes to run on the M1 MBA using the Azul ARM build. I can't wait for the 16" MBP with Apple Silicon.

eyelidlessness 6y ago
Worth noting that the M1 MBA doesn’t have a fan at all, noise-making or otherwise. But the M1 MBP has been similarly described as fan silent, even with its fans running.