5 ms·

I feel like Windows Update didn't used to be such a shitshow. Was I just not paying close enough attention a decade ago?

stqism 6y ago
This is entirely rosy retrospection, Windows update has always been a nightmare. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosy_retrospection https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosy_retrospection
joshuaissac 6y ago
Apparently, Microsoft disbanded the Windows Test team and switched from testing on real hardware to virtualised hardware a few years ago.[1] 1. https://www.ghacks.net/2019/09/23/former-microsoft-employee-explains-why-bugs-in-windows-updates-increased/ https://www.ghacks.net/2019/09/23/former-microsoft-employee-...
- yuhong 6y ago
  I reported a bug in late 2017 where the Jet 4.0 binaries shipped in Windows 7 updates was incorrectly compiled with /arch:SSE2 enabled.
contingencies 6y ago
I had auto-CHKDSK-on-restart trash an NTFS drive circa early noughties, FWIW. Never stored anything valuable on NTFS after that.
kabdib 6y ago
I help run a service that uses hundreds of Windows boxes, and at any one time two or three of them always seem to have a borked windows update state. Recovery is utter fucking voodoo, and it's usually better to flatten a machine than attempt to repair things. A while back I installed a couple racks of shiny, new, absolutely identical servers (except for MAC addresses) with factory-imaged operating systems, and had two of them fail initial windows updates. Out of the box. How do you even do that?
- gruez 6y ago
  >How do you even do that? flaky hardware?
  - craftinator 6y ago
    Lolz yeah right. It's the hardware's fault that windows install is non deterministic.
    - edoceo 6y ago
      Well, flakey RAM causes loads of intermittent issues.
      - ikiris 6y ago
        So does improper handling of write barriers.
  - aceperry 6y ago
    I hear a variation of this type of thing from windows fans constantly. "It's your hardware's fault." But never Window's fault. My experience is this; most of my computers are dual boot with windows and linux. When I have a problem with windows, I'll boot into linux and the problem goes away. Same hardware.
  - kabdib 6y ago
    It's definitely not flaky hardware.
- HideousKojima 6y ago
  In my experience booting from USB and installing the updates from that works 99.99% of the time, for the remaining 0.01% nuking it is the only option
- jiggawatts 6y ago
  My favourite Windows bug is the Start Menu search function. Install Windows Server 2016 or 2019 in any manner you choose: Blank VM with ISO image, new Azure VM from Microsoft template, whatever. Try using the Start Menu. Nothing will work. The search upon typing will not show all items. If you click on a search result, it won't launch. Type "SQL" to try and match "Microsoft SQL Server Management Studio" and be shocked to find that it doesn't. But it matches on "Management"! It's not that it didn't index it, it's just that it couldn't be bothered fully indexing it... or something. Type "Internet" and you won't see Internet Options. Sometimes it won't show up even if you've typed "Internet Opt". You have to complete the search to "Internet Options", character-for-character to reveal that it exists. Etc... It blows my mind that this could be fucked up, not just once, but for every single Windows release since Vista, in similar but different ways.
EvanAnderson 6y ago
Windows 7 was peak desktop Windows. Server 2012 R2 was the peak on the server side. Everything after has been downhill.
- MrStonedOne 6y ago
  Still on Windows 7! Gonna keep using it until it gets rooted, then format and install linux.
  - bserge 6y ago
    I gave up and installed it on some machines. Feels like a damn upgrade! Unified, customizable UI, better performance, better Search, local accounts, smaller footprint :D
  - Multicomp 6y ago
    Hopefully you have extended security updates or use zeropatch. Admittedly I have a test rig running windows posready 2009, aka w7 with esu cooked in from the beginning for contractual reasons. It is a bit like running windows xp embedded b on a normal desktop but seems good enough that I could use it as a daily driver if I wanted to.
- sfgweilr4f 6y ago
  Why'd they add "R2" to the end?
  - userbinator 6y ago
    It's equivalent to Windows 8.1. I guess they didn't want to call it Server 2013 instead.
sq_ 6y ago
Just in the last few weeks, I’ve had two instances where I let Windows update and a whole bunch of system stuff (including Windows Update itself, once) proceeded to break, even through a few reboots. Anecdote, of course, and theoretically I could have hardware issues, but things to seem to be worse than a few years ago.
worble 6y ago
The difference was a decade ago you could simply defer updates when someone reported online it borked their system. Now you're forced into it, like it or not.
DanBC 6y ago
It was reasonably common advice, (around 2000-2004) in the MS Small Business Server groups to tell people to wait for a few days before installing updates, to see if other people had problems. (I'd try to find a few posts but Google searches of Usenet newsgroups is suboptimal). EDIT here's one thread talking about installing some, but not all, patches and updates: https://groups.google.com/g/microsoft.public.backoffice.smallbiz/c/J3uFh6YUvt8/m/1DuVdpr4MS4J https://groups.google.com/g/microsoft.public.backoffice.smal...
Razengan 6y ago
> I feel like Windows Update didn't used to be such a shitshow. Did you cross over from a parallel universe, because Windows Update always was, to use the term of endearment, a shitshow: https://www.google.com/search?q=windows+update+deleted+documents https://www.google.com/search?q=windows+update+deleted+docum...

stqism 6y ago

This is entirely rosy retrospection, Windows update has always been a nightmare. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosy_retrospection https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosy_retrospection

joshuaissac 6y ago

Apparently, Microsoft disbanded the Windows Test team and switched from testing on real hardware to virtualised hardware a few years ago.[1] 1. https://www.ghacks.net/2019/09/23/former-microsoft-employee-explains-why-bugs-in-windows-updates-increased/ https://www.ghacks.net/2019/09/23/former-microsoft-employee-...

yuhong 6y ago
I reported a bug in late 2017 where the Jet 4.0 binaries shipped in Windows 7 updates was incorrectly compiled with /arch:SSE2 enabled.

contingencies 6y ago

I had auto-CHKDSK-on-restart trash an NTFS drive circa early noughties, FWIW. Never stored anything valuable on NTFS after that.

kabdib 6y ago

I help run a service that uses hundreds of Windows boxes, and at any one time two or three of them always seem to have a borked windows update state. Recovery is utter fucking voodoo, and it's usually better to flatten a machine than attempt to repair things. A while back I installed a couple racks of shiny, new, absolutely identical servers (except for MAC addresses) with factory-imaged operating systems, and had two of them fail initial windows updates. Out of the box. How do you even do that?

gruez 6y ago
>How do you even do that? flaky hardware?
- craftinator 6y ago
  Lolz yeah right. It's the hardware's fault that windows install is non deterministic.
  - edoceo 6y ago
    Well, flakey RAM causes loads of intermittent issues.
    - ikiris 6y ago
      So does improper handling of write barriers.
- aceperry 6y ago
  I hear a variation of this type of thing from windows fans constantly. "It's your hardware's fault." But never Window's fault. My experience is this; most of my computers are dual boot with windows and linux. When I have a problem with windows, I'll boot into linux and the problem goes away. Same hardware.
- kabdib 6y ago
  It's definitely not flaky hardware.
HideousKojima 6y ago
In my experience booting from USB and installing the updates from that works 99.99% of the time, for the remaining 0.01% nuking it is the only option
jiggawatts 6y ago
My favourite Windows bug is the Start Menu search function. Install Windows Server 2016 or 2019 in any manner you choose: Blank VM with ISO image, new Azure VM from Microsoft template, whatever. Try using the Start Menu. Nothing will work. The search upon typing will not show all items. If you click on a search result, it won't launch. Type "SQL" to try and match "Microsoft SQL Server Management Studio" and be shocked to find that it doesn't. But it matches on "Management"! It's not that it didn't index it, it's just that it couldn't be bothered fully indexing it... or something. Type "Internet" and you won't see Internet Options. Sometimes it won't show up even if you've typed "Internet Opt". You have to complete the search to "Internet Options", character-for-character to reveal that it exists. Etc... It blows my mind that this could be fucked up, not just once, but for every single Windows release since Vista, in similar but different ways.

EvanAnderson 6y ago

Windows 7 was peak desktop Windows. Server 2012 R2 was the peak on the server side. Everything after has been downhill.

MrStonedOne 6y ago
Still on Windows 7! Gonna keep using it until it gets rooted, then format and install linux.
- bserge 6y ago
  I gave up and installed it on some machines. Feels like a damn upgrade! Unified, customizable UI, better performance, better Search, local accounts, smaller footprint :D
- Multicomp 6y ago
  Hopefully you have extended security updates or use zeropatch. Admittedly I have a test rig running windows posready 2009, aka w7 with esu cooked in from the beginning for contractual reasons. It is a bit like running windows xp embedded b on a normal desktop but seems good enough that I could use it as a daily driver if I wanted to.
sfgweilr4f 6y ago
Why'd they add "R2" to the end?
- userbinator 6y ago
  It's equivalent to Windows 8.1. I guess they didn't want to call it Server 2013 instead.

sq_ 6y ago

Just in the last few weeks, I’ve had two instances where I let Windows update and a whole bunch of system stuff (including Windows Update itself, once) proceeded to break, even through a few reboots. Anecdote, of course, and theoretically I could have hardware issues, but things to seem to be worse than a few years ago.

worble 6y ago

The difference was a decade ago you could simply defer updates when someone reported online it borked their system. Now you're forced into it, like it or not.

DanBC 6y ago

It was reasonably common advice, (around 2000-2004) in the MS Small Business Server groups to tell people to wait for a few days before installing updates, to see if other people had problems. (I'd try to find a few posts but Google searches of Usenet newsgroups is suboptimal). EDIT here's one thread talking about installing some, but not all, patches and updates: https://groups.google.com/g/microsoft.public.backoffice.smallbiz/c/J3uFh6YUvt8/m/1DuVdpr4MS4J https://groups.google.com/g/microsoft.public.backoffice.smal...

Razengan 6y ago

> I feel like Windows Update didn't used to be such a shitshow. Did you cross over from a parallel universe, because Windows Update always was, to use the term of endearment, a shitshow: https://www.google.com/search?q=windows+update+deleted+documents https://www.google.com/search?q=windows+update+deleted+docum...