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Recently I was having a debate with a friend who said "you thought about this lot" in a mocking tone, and I suddenly realized how strange it was that that phras

Recently I was having a debate with a friend who said "you thought about this lot" in a mocking tone, and I suddenly realized how strange it was that that phrase is used so commonly as an insult. Solid thought isn't just good but necessary and we're seeing the symptoms of this everywhere.

MattGaiser 6y ago
I have heard that a couple times as well and all but once it has been mocking. There is almost a built in anti intellectualism to some people.
- copperx 6y ago
  rtpg above has hit the nail on the head. Mocking someone for climbing the wrong ladder isn't necessarily anti intellectualism.
  - jjoonathan 6y ago
    Right, but sometimes it is. Strategic apathy is the dumb debate tactic of the moment and in that capacity I'd call it anti-intellectual. It's hard to watch gel-haired youtubers going back and forth trying to out-apathy (and thereby out-cool) each other and come away with the idea that they are actually having an intellectual meta-debate about the allocation of time and attention. It seems far more likely that they saw someone win a debate by staying cool and projecting apathy, copied the behavior, and have spread it so far and wide that the tactic is now regularly played against itself with farcical results.
  - notabee 6y ago
    Science itself involves climbing many wrong ladders to verify that they are indeed wrong. Some things you can't know beforehand. Not everything needs that level of dedication, but also, how confident are you that said ladder is wrong unless you've climbed it yourself or have extensive, reliable reports from others who have done so? It's also easy to be like the fox in Aesop's Fables that declares grapes to be sour, untasted.
    - Bakary 6y ago
      Some knowledge of life will necessarily have to be intuitive since you won't be able to come up with a double blind experiment for everything
  - manigandham 6y ago
    In your analogy, the climbing is what's important, not which ladder. Learning how to climb well is applicable regardless of which ladder you encounter in the future.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - klyrs 6y ago
    No, it's strictly anti-curiosity. The answers found at the top of a wrong ladder can be more illuminating than the solution being sought after.
rtpg 6y ago
The person's point is likely that you spent a lot of energy on something that probably doesn't matter. This might be subjective, of course, but it is possible to think about something for longer than you should. Navel-gazing isn't a virtue. Though ideally you probably want to be with people who think that the same stuff is important.
- imbnwa 6y ago
  Immediate action isn't a virtue either, and trust me, I grew up with people who think their immediate action is virtuous enough, and no, you're not gonna get much community from that in the last resort as reassuring as it appears in real-time; most people do not recognize their own anxieties spurring them into some form of immediate action or other. Also, we don't know what the subject was between OP and whoever, so its kinda hard to gauge what kind of lesson to derive from it
- Cyph0n 6y ago
  Everyone has spent a longer time than necessary thinking about something that is subjectively useless. Mocking someone for doing so demonstrates nothing more than a lack of self-awareness.
- notsureaboutpg 6y ago
  But everyone spends time on stuff that doesn't matter. At least thinking about a topic of discussion is better than watching the 18th season of the Bachelor (as an example)
- manigandham 6y ago
  Longer than you should? There is no such thing. Of course it's possible to spend thought without resulting in any new discoveries but that's not really a problem because thoughts are interconnected and build upon each other to create better mental models for other situations. It doesn't matter how petty or insignificant the topic is, it's the act of thinking deeply about something that's important. Anyway, I understand the social context of the phrase, but my point is that it's used so often in place a real argument and is a sign of the greater superficiality of most discussions today.
bigbubba 6y ago
"Tell us how you really feel."

MattGaiser 6y ago

I have heard that a couple times as well and all but once it has been mocking. There is almost a built in anti intellectualism to some people.

copperx 6y ago
rtpg above has hit the nail on the head. Mocking someone for climbing the wrong ladder isn't necessarily anti intellectualism.
- jjoonathan 6y ago
  Right, but sometimes it is. Strategic apathy is the dumb debate tactic of the moment and in that capacity I'd call it anti-intellectual. It's hard to watch gel-haired youtubers going back and forth trying to out-apathy (and thereby out-cool) each other and come away with the idea that they are actually having an intellectual meta-debate about the allocation of time and attention. It seems far more likely that they saw someone win a debate by staying cool and projecting apathy, copied the behavior, and have spread it so far and wide that the tactic is now regularly played against itself with farcical results.
- notabee 6y ago
  Science itself involves climbing many wrong ladders to verify that they are indeed wrong. Some things you can't know beforehand. Not everything needs that level of dedication, but also, how confident are you that said ladder is wrong unless you've climbed it yourself or have extensive, reliable reports from others who have done so? It's also easy to be like the fox in Aesop's Fables that declares grapes to be sour, untasted.
  - Bakary 6y ago
    Some knowledge of life will necessarily have to be intuitive since you won't be able to come up with a double blind experiment for everything
- manigandham 6y ago
  In your analogy, the climbing is what's important, not which ladder. Learning how to climb well is applicable regardless of which ladder you encounter in the future.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- klyrs 6y ago
  No, it's strictly anti-curiosity. The answers found at the top of a wrong ladder can be more illuminating than the solution being sought after.

rtpg 6y ago

The person's point is likely that you spent a lot of energy on something that probably doesn't matter. This might be subjective, of course, but it is possible to think about something for longer than you should. Navel-gazing isn't a virtue. Though ideally you probably want to be with people who think that the same stuff is important.

imbnwa 6y ago
Immediate action isn't a virtue either, and trust me, I grew up with people who think their immediate action is virtuous enough, and no, you're not gonna get much community from that in the last resort as reassuring as it appears in real-time; most people do not recognize their own anxieties spurring them into some form of immediate action or other. Also, we don't know what the subject was between OP and whoever, so its kinda hard to gauge what kind of lesson to derive from it
Cyph0n 6y ago
Everyone has spent a longer time than necessary thinking about something that is subjectively useless. Mocking someone for doing so demonstrates nothing more than a lack of self-awareness.
notsureaboutpg 6y ago
But everyone spends time on stuff that doesn't matter. At least thinking about a topic of discussion is better than watching the 18th season of the Bachelor (as an example)
manigandham 6y ago
Longer than you should? There is no such thing. Of course it's possible to spend thought without resulting in any new discoveries but that's not really a problem because thoughts are interconnected and build upon each other to create better mental models for other situations. It doesn't matter how petty or insignificant the topic is, it's the act of thinking deeply about something that's important. Anyway, I understand the social context of the phrase, but my point is that it's used so often in place a real argument and is a sign of the greater superficiality of most discussions today.

bigbubba 6y ago

"Tell us how you really feel."