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This is how-to-make-a-click-bait article-101. Show me an x86 laptop in the same power envelope that can match the fanless MacBook Air with the m1. I’ll wait. O
by gigatexal 6y ago
This is how-to-make-a-click-bait article-101.
Show me an x86 laptop in the same power envelope that can match the fanless MacBook Air with the m1. I’ll wait. Oh and do so at roughly 1k.
On the desktop the Mac mini is 699 USD in its base spec. The 5800X is 500 euros on its own before motherboard, case, ram etc etc.
Apples to apples benchmarks either controlling for power or price would make for a more relevant article.
- tuhdo 6y agoMany other clickbait articles claimed that M1 is better than the best desktop class CPUs. I only tested the water and found otherwise. The 5900HX is planned and should be within 90% performance of my 5800X within 45W TDP. Not close to the power consumption, but then zen 3 is only on 7nm, while M1 is on 5nm. The Mac Mini is $699 with only 8GB RAM, that runs out after a few browser tabs. So, for a work machine, you would need at least the 16GB model and add $200 to that. Though the build quality and the panel is excellent. You could opt for the 5600X. The core count is not relevant in the article, as the benchmarks are mainly single-threaded.
- gigatexal 6y agoThe unified memory does go to great lengths to make memory not such an issue. It also pages a ton. I’ve read that people can throw up hundreds of tabs in safari on the 8GB model and be just fine.
- new_realist 6y agoThe claims were fastest per-core performance, not fastest absolute performance in a single system. Heck, there are desktops out there with hundreds of cores in them, drawing hundreds of watts of power. I haven't had time to delve into most of these benchmarks, but they look multithreaded to me.
- macintux 6y ago> that runs out after a few browser tabs Citation needed
- darkteflon 6y agoAnecdotal, of course, but I currently have 42 tabs open in Firefox 84 (native M1 build) on an 8gb M1 Mac Mini, as well as two VS Code windows and a bunch of other things like Mail, Calendar, Authy, Bitwarden, etc. As far as memory management is concerned, user experience is indistinguishable from my 32gb Ryzen 3700X desktop with a Samsung NVMe.
- BearOso 6y ago8GB is plenty for most people right now. A browser won’t eat that much memory for normal sites and reasonable tab counts. An interesting thing about the M1’s RAM limit, though, is that it literally can’t get any bigger. 16GB is pushing it, but fitting 32GB into a package-on-package simply can’t be done with our current tech. Apple is solely relying on Moore’s law for future advances because, with the way these processors are designed, external infrastructure would wreck performance.
- yxhuvud 6y agoIf you need citation for that you clearly don't use jira.
- qz2 6y agoI just spent all week on an 8gb mini with slack and about 50 JIRA tabs open. Works fine.
- gigatexal 6y agoThis is comparing the M1 which a mobile focused chip in a tiny power envelope to the pinnacle of AMD cpu design in a giant (relatively) power envelope. My point was that the article could have stood on its own without even benching against the M1. Just show the performance of the 5800X in tasks the M1 and the 5800X are not in the same league.
- imtringued 6y agoI don't know what you are talking about. The problem with fake information is that you have to spend more resources debunking it than it takes to create fake information in the first place.
- threeseed 6y ago> The Mac Mini is $699 with only 8GB RAM, that runs out after a few browser tabs You know swap exists right. I just opened 30+ tabs on the MacBook Air without any issues.
- mping 6y agoThe article mentioned faster, not cheaper. A performance-per-dollar and per watt is certainly valuable, but for a forum that always mentions that a couple hundred bucks are worth spending for shaving off time from a developer workflow (SSDs, RAM, etc, assuming they earn market rates) this benchmark is worth it. As a desktop user, I certainly am interested in these numbers.
- new_realist 6y agoWhy would you buy a Mac mini for performance critical work? I could see being bound to a laptop for some workflows, but is that Ryzen available in laptops?
- sliken 6y agoYes, but only the zen 2 flavor which is significantly slower per core. The M1 competitor with similar thermals, close IPC per core, and on board GPU is widly rumored to be announced in Jan at CES.
- jsjohnst 6y ago> The M1 competitor with similar thermals, close IPC per core, and on board GPU is widly rumored to be announced in Jan at CES. Ok, so what you’re saying is that AMD is wildly rumored to have a processor that you might be able to find as an option on a niche (term not used in a negative sense) brand laptop in Summer 2021 that directly competes with Apple’s M1 processor available in Fall 2020 on their highest sold models which are their lowest price point machines?
- ben-schaaf 6y agoIf by "AMD is wildly rumored to have a processor" you mean it's been leaked and benchmarked multiple times, then sure: https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Ryzen-7-5800H-shows-decent-performance-gains-over-the-4800H-model-in-latest-Geekbench-tests.509896.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Ryzen-7-5800H-shows-decent...
- mmgutz 6y agoThe M1 is certainly impressive but how much does the same configuration say with 16GB and 1TB SSD cost? Most enthusiasts aren't going to buy an AMD Ryzen 5800x and limit themselves to 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD. A mac mini 8GB + 512GB SSD configuration is 900USD. Can you imagine what a 16GB + 1TB SSD cost, which is not an uncommon configuration? My guess is in the 1300USD range.
- jgalentine007 6y agoHere's a datapoint. I just got an HP Omen gaming laptop for $1100 on Amazon. Pretty much equivalent to the 3800x mentioned in the article, but came with 16GB of RAM and 1TB SSD, and 6GB Nvidia 1660ti discrete graphics. I can seemingly run unlimited browser tabs, video conference and play a game across 3 monitors (built in one is 144hz) simultaneously with no latency whatsoever. I upgraded to 32GB of ram for $144 and added another 512gb PCIe SSD I had lying around, because it had an extra slot. The fans do run (quietly) all the time, and it has a battery life of about 4 or 5 hours. Not in the same league performance per watt as the M1, but interesting performance for the dollar none the less.
- muyuu 6y agosounds good but I'm waiting for a proper Ryzen Linux laptop that is actually meant to be carried around... otherwise a desktop makes more sense to me
- eloff 6y agoFor my work machine I don't care much about the price (to a point) or the power consumption. I want the fastest compiles money can buy. This article is exactly what I want to see, and confirms my decision to go for the 5900x. Now if AMD can just get them in stock. The local waiting list is months long.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y agoIf you want the fastest compiles money can buy, wouldn't you be looking at a massive, 3rd gen threadripper?
- eloff 6y agoIf you mean the 3rd gen server chips, they're not released yet. Also there are diminishing returns as core count increases. I'm doubting that a 5950x is worth it over the 5900x for me.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y agoYou don't run parallel compiles? They can use all your cores, with a linear speedup ... I meant the latest Ryzen Threadrippers, whatever "generation" they are now. The 3970X would likely be a good example.
- Macha 6y agoDepends on the language of course. Most JS tools are strongly single threaded. Rust is quite good for multi core and benefitted hugely from my 3900x but even that only keeps all the cores busy for the first 60% of a compile then we're limited by the slowest chain of dependencies.
- eloff 6y agoThe compiles are parallel, but not all work can be done in parallel or divided among 32 threads equally. So from 24 to 32 threads is not typically a 33% increase unless your compiles are huge (like the Linux kernel).
- macintux 6y agoOn the other hand there have been plenty of benchmarks reported of like to like and many have been asking what M1 would look like against the best AMD has to offer. There’s room for plenty of comparisons. It’s a big world.
- admiralspoo 6y agoI'm not sure why you're getting downvoted. The M1 is ahead by 2-3x in performance per watt and highly competitive in performance/dollar. This result is indeed quite meaningless as Apple will have 16 high-performance core variants of the M1 soon.
- BearOso 6y ago> Apple will have 16 high-performance core variants of the M1 soon I doubt that’s coming soon. The M1 is a HUGE chip. The decoders and pipelines take up a massive amount of space, and the L2 cache is apparently unwieldy, too. They’ve focused on making a limited number of cores perform very well, but there isn’t enough room. They need another die shrink to add any more. I think the upcoming pro hardware will just be tweaks to the current formula.
- spacedcowboy 6y agoIt’s not that big, it’s ~120 mm^2. You can go to intel or AMD and find 750 mm^2 chips... Apple have 2 advantages here. - They don’t play in the low-cost arena, people expect a Mac to be a bit more expensive, so they have a larger cost budget to work with - They don’t have to make a profit on the CPU in particular, whereas Intel and AMD do. Apple want a 38-40% margin on the whole shebang, and if it needs a more expensive chip, then that’s what’ll happen, maybe taking cost-savings from (2), and of necessary adding price because of (1). I would be shocked if Platform Architecture at Apple didn’t already have 8, 16, and 32-core variants of the M series up and running, or at the very least in simulation. They’re coming, and the world will change. Again.
- imtringued 6y agoI have mentioned this in several comments and no, it's not that simple and worse, there is zero money to be made even if they did release such a product because Apple would never sell their chips as an OEM.
- imtringued 6y agoHow is it clickbait? The title says it compares a specific CPU model vs another specific CPU model and that is exactly what it does. Where do you see deception in the title? >Show me an x86 laptop in the same power envelope that can match the fanless MacBook Air with the m1. I’ll wait. Oh and do so at roughly 1k. How does this prove that the title is lying? >On the desktop the Mac mini is 699 USD in its base spec. The 5800X is 500 euros on its own before motherboard, case, ram etc etc. Again, how is this relevant to whether the title is clickbait or not? >Apples to apples benchmarks either controlling for power or price would make for a more relevant article. Seriously, what does this have to do with clickbait? Here is my perspective. I saw lots of articles that pretended that the M1 is better than all x86 CPUs including Ryzens (one of them is linked in the article). This was getting on my nerves because everyone is being dishonest. I clicked on this article because the title compared a Ryzen desktop CPU with the M1 with the expectation that these benchmarks disprove the garbage journalism and that's exactly what I got. The Ryzen 5800X performs better than the M1. x86 is still strong in single core performance. Those real "clickbait" articles were just lazy and trying to hype something up. This article is not clickbait and you are just being dishonest.