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Headline is right. Nothing can substitute quant ability. Both in terms of what it gives you professionally, but also in terms of the depth of the world you can

Headline is right. Nothing can substitute quant ability. Both in terms of what it gives you professionally, but also in terms of the depth of the world you can explore. Go and talk to someone who isn't on the mathy side of nerdness. It is as if an entire world is missing, and not just missing. I don't know much about the history some particular country, but I can catch a curiosity and read a book about it just from wondering. Most people will not have heard of complex numbers, and will not think to look it up. About the football, I think CTE issue is going to balloon in the coming years. In the UK there's a Rugby World Cup winner who can't remember winning it. Parents are wise to observe the decisions of a guy who would have been paid millions a year but chose not to, in order to preserve his mind. It's unfortunate because gridiron is a fascinating sport.

mistermann 6y ago
"Single most important", even if technically true, can also be misleading.
- maverickJ 6y ago
  Yup. I have a problem with “single most important”
  - kordlessagain 6y ago
    Getting hung up on words is a thing with some people. Not everything can be put into words and have it stick for all time. Things change. Dogma emerges. Impermanence happens.
    - klyrs 6y ago
      "Is the single most important thing" is plainly hyperbole. For instance, that statement cannot be unconditional. If a bus is barreling towards you, the single most important thing is to get out of the way of that bus. No time to measure it, measure its velocity, calculate the rate at which you need to move. The single most important thing is to get moving now. As a mathematician, I read that headline and say "what are your axioms?" And that's a quantitative response to that qualitative headline, so no apologies.
      - kordlessagain 6y ago
        If one is thrown in front of a bus, one is probably not going to use any words to remove themselves from the path of the bus. Hyperbole is all about words, but the author was speaking about what is the single most important thing to thinking, which means their thinking, not yours or mine. Pointing out that someone else is aimlessly pointing out "errors" gets downvotes, apparently. That would be a hypothesis.
- lukifer 6y ago
  Curiously "single most important" is a qualitative value statement, masquerading as a quantitative statement: it implies a rank-ordering of Most Important Things. But there are no measurable, quantifiable units attached to such a list, nor could there be. It's probably not fair to indict too strongly on this phrase; people use exaggerated language all the time ("X is the best" to mean "X is very very good"), and so reading it as "thinking quantitatively is very very important" seems appropriate. Nonetheless, as valuable as quantitative thinking is, it has (immeasurable) diminishing returns. It can never be more than a tool to realize our qualitative human values. Somewhere we have to "cash out" the numbers into things we care about, which don't have numbers attached: human dignity; individual autonomy; the look of joy in a child's eyes; the emotional security of family and friends; etc.
  - mistermann 6y ago
    For sure however... > It's probably not fair to indict too strongly on this phrase; people use exaggerated language all the time ("X is the best" to mean "X is very very good"), and so reading it as "thinking quantitatively is very very important" seems appropriate. To me, the point isn't about pedantic enforcement of grammar and linguistics, but more so about to underlying thinking that this use of language suggests. To what extent does lazy/imprecise/presumptive/forgiving communication and thinking permeate the systems that implement our incredibly technically advanced advanced societies, where it is simultaneously common to find people who smell like pee sleeping on the sidewalk, and hardly anyone bats an eye, or finds the situation even remotely curious? This comment isn't directed at you, it's just more of an esoteric observation.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
adamsea 6y ago
> Go and talk to someone who isn't on the mathy side of nerdness. It is as if an entire world is missing, and not just missing. That’s not really fair. Someone who doesn’t like to dance? Entire world missing. Only speaks a single language? Doesn’t really appreciate or enjoy food? Worlds missing. Doesn’t know a lot about music or art? Has poor emotional intelligence? Enjoys history but not literature? Worlds missing. Only socialized in a real way with people like them? World missing. I can go on. But yeah, quantitative skills are important, and yeah the world is big. It’s even bigger than math.
- necrotic_comp 6y ago
  It was Heinlein who said: " “A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” I like that, even if his politics are problematic.
- lordnacho 6y ago
  You're right. But all of those things are things you can do something about, because you've heard of them. Just saying there's a lot of things in the math world that if you didn't put down a stake early on, you won't know that you don't know them.
  - indigochill 6y ago
    > ...you won't know that you don't know them. But this is true of many (all?) fields, not just quantitative. For example, recently I've been learning ancient Hebrew and one of the things I learned early on was that it (like Arabic) has a "dual number" which is in a similar grammatical category to English singular and plural, but implies the things usually come in pairs, like hands and eyes. It uses this construct to refer to "the heavens" in Genesis, which immediately raises the question of why ancient Hebrew cosmology identified "the heavens" as dual in number. There's something I didn't even know I didn't know until I started into the field.
sillysaurusx 6y ago
I think you should talk to more people who aren't on the mathy side of nerdiness. And try to really relate with them. You're not wrong, but it's hard not to feel bad for people who bucket others into such confining batches. You'll miss out on so many friendships if you think that way. There's no special insight needed for being able to appreciate good company, or to play guitar together. And I think a good guitarist can explore as many interesting facets of the world as the best mathematician. Complex numbers to a guitarist may as well be frets on a fretboard to a quant who doesn't play.
- WalterSear 6y ago
  I'm a former professional musician and guitarist, whose music has been heard by millions of people, and now a principal software engineer. IMHO, you have it backwards: the best guitarists explore as many interesting facets of the world as a good mathematician.
  - sillysaurusx 6y ago
    (Cool! Also, I'm a bit confused, because that sounds like exactly what I said. Though I like yours better, since it quantifies "best guitarist" rather than "good guitarist".)
- souprock 6y ago
  The sound of a plucked guitar string probably ought to be expressed with chiplets. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chirplet_transform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chirplet_transform You could also use a physics-based model. That has lots of math, including calculus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_vibration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_vibration I'm not sure what it takes to appreciate good company, but graph theory and statistics seem likely. You'd have to model the social network somehow. Facebook and Twitter would know more.
  - posterboy 6y ago
    The social graph for the company of a single person will have a very low degree. I don't think you can do much statistics with it?
quasarj 6y ago
What does it even mean to "think quantitatively"? I am so lost.
contravariant 6y ago
At this point we should probably clarify that the hackernews title was originally based on the subheading: >Being capable of thinking quantitatively — it’s the single most important thing
psychometry 6y ago
Troy Aikman has no memory of playing in the 1994 NFC Championship game. He had ten concussions in his career, and probably more than weren't detected. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/02/03/troy-aikman-says-he-has-no-memory-of-playing-in-the-1994-nfc-championship-game/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/02/03...

mistermann 6y ago

"Single most important", even if technically true, can also be misleading.

maverickJ 6y ago
Yup. I have a problem with “single most important”
- kordlessagain 6y ago
  Getting hung up on words is a thing with some people. Not everything can be put into words and have it stick for all time. Things change. Dogma emerges. Impermanence happens.
  - klyrs 6y ago
    "Is the single most important thing" is plainly hyperbole. For instance, that statement cannot be unconditional. If a bus is barreling towards you, the single most important thing is to get out of the way of that bus. No time to measure it, measure its velocity, calculate the rate at which you need to move. The single most important thing is to get moving now. As a mathematician, I read that headline and say "what are your axioms?" And that's a quantitative response to that qualitative headline, so no apologies.
    - kordlessagain 6y ago
      If one is thrown in front of a bus, one is probably not going to use any words to remove themselves from the path of the bus. Hyperbole is all about words, but the author was speaking about what is the single most important thing to thinking, which means their thinking, not yours or mine. Pointing out that someone else is aimlessly pointing out "errors" gets downvotes, apparently. That would be a hypothesis.
lukifer 6y ago
Curiously "single most important" is a qualitative value statement, masquerading as a quantitative statement: it implies a rank-ordering of Most Important Things. But there are no measurable, quantifiable units attached to such a list, nor could there be. It's probably not fair to indict too strongly on this phrase; people use exaggerated language all the time ("X is the best" to mean "X is very very good"), and so reading it as "thinking quantitatively is very very important" seems appropriate. Nonetheless, as valuable as quantitative thinking is, it has (immeasurable) diminishing returns. It can never be more than a tool to realize our qualitative human values. Somewhere we have to "cash out" the numbers into things we care about, which don't have numbers attached: human dignity; individual autonomy; the look of joy in a child's eyes; the emotional security of family and friends; etc.
- mistermann 6y ago
  For sure however... > It's probably not fair to indict too strongly on this phrase; people use exaggerated language all the time ("X is the best" to mean "X is very very good"), and so reading it as "thinking quantitatively is very very important" seems appropriate. To me, the point isn't about pedantic enforcement of grammar and linguistics, but more so about to underlying thinking that this use of language suggests. To what extent does lazy/imprecise/presumptive/forgiving communication and thinking permeate the systems that implement our incredibly technically advanced advanced societies, where it is simultaneously common to find people who smell like pee sleeping on the sidewalk, and hardly anyone bats an eye, or finds the situation even remotely curious? This comment isn't directed at you, it's just more of an esoteric observation.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

adamsea 6y ago

> Go and talk to someone who isn't on the mathy side of nerdness. It is as if an entire world is missing, and not just missing. That’s not really fair. Someone who doesn’t like to dance? Entire world missing. Only speaks a single language? Doesn’t really appreciate or enjoy food? Worlds missing. Doesn’t know a lot about music or art? Has poor emotional intelligence? Enjoys history but not literature? Worlds missing. Only socialized in a real way with people like them? World missing. I can go on. But yeah, quantitative skills are important, and yeah the world is big. It’s even bigger than math.

necrotic_comp 6y ago
It was Heinlein who said: " “A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” I like that, even if his politics are problematic.
lordnacho 6y ago
You're right. But all of those things are things you can do something about, because you've heard of them. Just saying there's a lot of things in the math world that if you didn't put down a stake early on, you won't know that you don't know them.
- indigochill 6y ago
  > ...you won't know that you don't know them. But this is true of many (all?) fields, not just quantitative. For example, recently I've been learning ancient Hebrew and one of the things I learned early on was that it (like Arabic) has a "dual number" which is in a similar grammatical category to English singular and plural, but implies the things usually come in pairs, like hands and eyes. It uses this construct to refer to "the heavens" in Genesis, which immediately raises the question of why ancient Hebrew cosmology identified "the heavens" as dual in number. There's something I didn't even know I didn't know until I started into the field.

sillysaurusx 6y ago

I think you should talk to more people who aren't on the mathy side of nerdiness. And try to really relate with them. You're not wrong, but it's hard not to feel bad for people who bucket others into such confining batches. You'll miss out on so many friendships if you think that way. There's no special insight needed for being able to appreciate good company, or to play guitar together. And I think a good guitarist can explore as many interesting facets of the world as the best mathematician. Complex numbers to a guitarist may as well be frets on a fretboard to a quant who doesn't play.

WalterSear 6y ago
I'm a former professional musician and guitarist, whose music has been heard by millions of people, and now a principal software engineer. IMHO, you have it backwards: the best guitarists explore as many interesting facets of the world as a good mathematician.
- sillysaurusx 6y ago
  (Cool! Also, I'm a bit confused, because that sounds like exactly what I said. Though I like yours better, since it quantifies "best guitarist" rather than "good guitarist".)
souprock 6y ago
The sound of a plucked guitar string probably ought to be expressed with chiplets. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chirplet_transform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chirplet_transform You could also use a physics-based model. That has lots of math, including calculus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_vibration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_vibration I'm not sure what it takes to appreciate good company, but graph theory and statistics seem likely. You'd have to model the social network somehow. Facebook and Twitter would know more.
- posterboy 6y ago
  The social graph for the company of a single person will have a very low degree. I don't think you can do much statistics with it?

quasarj 6y ago

What does it even mean to "think quantitatively"? I am so lost.

contravariant 6y ago

At this point we should probably clarify that the hackernews title was originally based on the subheading: >Being capable of thinking quantitatively — it’s the single most important thing

psychometry 6y ago

Troy Aikman has no memory of playing in the 1994 NFC Championship game. He had ten concussions in his career, and probably more than weren't detected. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/02/03/troy-aikman-says-he-has-no-memory-of-playing-in-the-1994-nfc-championship-game/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/02/03...