10 ms·

John Urschel tackles his lifelong balance of math and football in new memoir

kepler1 6y ago
Well, I would also say that it helps to have family and friends and an environment that rewards and nurtures kids for having some intellectual capability + aptitude. Maybe having come from Canada is a contributor to that. I'm guessing he's being highlighted as an unusual and inspirational role model case for an American kid (if he were American). Football, Baltimore, black. That example growing-up environment does not exactly favor a kid to be encouraged to pursue intellectual strengths unless you have an incredible teacher or parents for example. At worst, you are even harrassed for trying to escape your environment, and called a class traitor for thinking you're better than everyone else. This is a big problem.
- virtuous_signal 6y ago
  > Football, Baltimore, black. That example growing-up environment does not exactly favor a kid to be encouraged to pursue intellectual strengths unless you have an incredible teacher or parents for example. Wikipedia says "Urschel was born in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. His parents, John Urschel and Venita Parker, were a surgeon and attorney, respectively. He grew up in Buffalo, New York, where he attended Canisius High School." With no other information, that "growing-up" environment (notably including a private school) sounds great for an academically precocious kid.
  - kepler1 6y ago
    I agree. I was just pointing out my example as the case this kind of story may be aimed at helping to change. Baltimore inner city. No amount of well-intentioned BLM protest is going to change the day to day lived experience of someone in that environment. It has to be change in the community itself.
throwaway119922 6y ago
Law student here who lacks this. Does anybody have any advice on how to begin developing this skill?
- dano 6y ago
  Yes! Get a copy of the book Problem Solving, Decision Making, and Professional Judgment: A Guide for Lawyers and Policymakers [1] co-authored by Paul Brest [2] and Linda Hamilton Krieger [3]. This is an outstanding book for anyone who will be in a leadership, governance, or position where decisions matter. Good luck with your degree. 1. https://www.amazon.com/Problem-Solving-Decision-Professional-Judgment/dp/0195366328/ https://www.amazon.com/Problem-Solving-Decision-Professional... 2. https://law.stanford.edu/directory/paul-brest/ https://law.stanford.edu/directory/paul-brest/ 3. https://www.law.hawaii.edu/personnel/krieger/linda https://www.law.hawaii.edu/personnel/krieger/linda
- kepler1 6y ago
  Here are some tips, and I would say especially in law, where you may tend to talk in principles when in fact numbers do become important. -- 1. Take an interest in data. Be interested in the details of how statistics and numbers make things more complicated than black or white. Take a look each day at some of the more popular plots on https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/ https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/ . Go to wikipedia and read about the demographic distribution of the USA, or the federal tax brackets, and how you would visualize those in data. And think about what data, numbers, information you would need to plot such things. Write down the example data you would need and think about how to plot it, or make some conclusion about it. Think about where in your cases you would bring in data (and of what kind) to support the point. -- 2. Be interested in why small differences in data can change the "takeaway" point of what you're seeing. What would it take in numbers to reach the conclusion you're reaching? How reliable are those numbers, and how do they interact that some error in one would change your whole conclusion? Learning to like the detail behind a "principle" is important. When Justice xyz questioned the petitioner on the distance radius of doctors who were able to be affiliated with an abortion-performing hospital and the effect on the number of women with access to medical procedures, why did that matter? -- 3. Don't be satisfied with the summary numbers that someone tells you. Learn to ask the next level question about the numbers and think about what it means. When some article or person on the news says, "xyz went up by 30%", ask for more -- what number did it go from to? When was it measured, and by what metric? What was the error? If it went from 3 to 4, well, is that meaningful to say it went up by 30%? When they say a vaccine has 90% efficacy, what does that mean? What numbers are they looking at to say such a thing? What number would you look at? You will know you've reached a level of quantitative thinking when you can call bullshit on other people's claimed statistics, or ask "did they really measure that in a meaningful way?". If you don't take an interest in numbers and how people present them, and what they mean, you can just be led around by other people who are in control of them. It will be in your interest and increase your future success against adversaries to feel comfortable with numbers.
lordnacho 6y ago
Headline is right. Nothing can substitute quant ability. Both in terms of what it gives you professionally, but also in terms of the depth of the world you can explore. Go and talk to someone who isn't on the mathy side of nerdness. It is as if an entire world is missing, and not just missing. I don't know much about the history some particular country, but I can catch a curiosity and read a book about it just from wondering. Most people will not have heard of complex numbers, and will not think to look it up. About the football, I think CTE issue is going to balloon in the coming years. In the UK there's a Rugby World Cup winner who can't remember winning it. Parents are wise to observe the decisions of a guy who would have been paid millions a year but chose not to, in order to preserve his mind. It's unfortunate because gridiron is a fascinating sport.
- mistermann 6y ago
  "Single most important", even if technically true, can also be misleading.
  - maverickJ 6y ago
    Yup. I have a problem with “single most important”
    - kordlessagain 6y ago
      Getting hung up on words is a thing with some people. Not everything can be put into words and have it stick for all time. Things change. Dogma emerges. Impermanence happens.
      - klyrs 6y ago
        "Is the single most important thing" is plainly hyperbole. For instance, that statement cannot be unconditional. If a bus is barreling towards you, the single most important thing is to get out of the way of that bus. No time to measure it, measure its velocity, calculate the rate at which you need to move. The single most important thing is to get moving now. As a mathematician, I read that headline and say "what are your axioms?" And that's a quantitative response to that qualitative headline, so no apologies.
invalidOrTaken 6y ago
I'm so happy for him. It sounds like a life well-aligned, so far.
maverickJ 6y ago
Being able to think quantitatively is very important but saying being capable of thinking quantitatively as the single most important thing is a abut suspect. There is also qualitative thinking which is criminally underrated. I reckon that one needs to combine qualitative and quantitative thinking. Qualitative thinking can drive quantitative thinking. Some research on qualitative factors was done on Olympic swimmers. This link below shows its application for excellence for anyone interested. https://leveragethoughts.substack.com/p/what-is-excellence https://leveragethoughts.substack.com/p/what-is-excellence
MaximumYComb 6y ago
He retired from the NFL at 26, so sadly I think a lot of neural damage has already been done. High school football, 4 years of university and then another 3-4 professional seasons. He has still made a great choice in retiring early, he's the available information to minimise the damage. I played 7 years of rugby growing up and I hope I haven't done long term damage. I've been concussed a few times, etc.
georgeoliver 6y ago
Except when you're writing qualitative article titles.
cutler 6y ago
The phrase "sweeping generalisation" comes to mind.
heymijo 6y ago
I'm curious what ideas people here have to best address our world's collective quantitative illiteracy.
cupofcoffee 6y ago
Overrated mathematician that just because plays football goes on headlines.
- psychometry 6y ago
  Could I see your list of mathematician rankings? Sounds fascinating.
  - cupofcoffee 6y ago
    They are too busy doing math to write memoirs and be publicity hounds.
    - whymauri 6y ago
      The entirety of Quanta Magazine begs to differ, lol. Just about every mathematics professor I had at MIT had some form of publicity release on Quanta or on a major news release. Some of the giants were featured in Recountings, a memoir/science history book about the department. What, are they all bad mathematicians now? What a bizarre perspective.
      - cupofcoffee 6y ago
        Were they writing memoirs at 29 with nearly no serious math contributions?
snicker7 6y ago
Urschel recently gave a lecture at MIT's Computational Thinking course (in Julia): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRCGNvMdLEY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRCGNvMdLEY
FranklinMaillot 6y ago
For those interested, Urschel was interviewed in this great episode of the Numberphile Podcast. https://www.numberphile.com/podcast/john-urschel https://www.numberphile.com/podcast/john-urschel
cafard 6y ago
As a childhood fan of the Cleveland Browns, I'll mention the quarterback Frank Ryan, who had a Ph.D. in math from Rice. He was the QB during the Browns's last NFL championship.

Well, I would also say that it helps to have family and friends and an environment that rewards and nurtures kids for having some intellectual capability + aptitude. Maybe having come from Canada is a contributor to that. I'm guessing he's being highlighted as an unusual and inspirational role model case for an American kid (if he were American). Football, Baltimore, black. That example growing-up environment does not exactly favor a kid to be encouraged to pursue intellectual strengths unless you have an incredible teacher or parents for example. At worst, you are even harrassed for trying to escape your environment, and called a class traitor for thinking you're better than everyone else. This is a big problem.

virtuous_signal 6y ago
> Football, Baltimore, black. That example growing-up environment does not exactly favor a kid to be encouraged to pursue intellectual strengths unless you have an incredible teacher or parents for example. Wikipedia says "Urschel was born in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. His parents, John Urschel and Venita Parker, were a surgeon and attorney, respectively. He grew up in Buffalo, New York, where he attended Canisius High School." With no other information, that "growing-up" environment (notably including a private school) sounds great for an academically precocious kid.
- kepler1 6y ago
  I agree. I was just pointing out my example as the case this kind of story may be aimed at helping to change. Baltimore inner city. No amount of well-intentioned BLM protest is going to change the day to day lived experience of someone in that environment. It has to be change in the community itself.

throwaway119922 6y ago

Law student here who lacks this. Does anybody have any advice on how to begin developing this skill?

dano 6y ago
Yes! Get a copy of the book Problem Solving, Decision Making, and Professional Judgment: A Guide for Lawyers and Policymakers [1] co-authored by Paul Brest [2] and Linda Hamilton Krieger [3]. This is an outstanding book for anyone who will be in a leadership, governance, or position where decisions matter. Good luck with your degree. 1. https://www.amazon.com/Problem-Solving-Decision-Professional-Judgment/dp/0195366328/ https://www.amazon.com/Problem-Solving-Decision-Professional... 2. https://law.stanford.edu/directory/paul-brest/ https://law.stanford.edu/directory/paul-brest/ 3. https://www.law.hawaii.edu/personnel/krieger/linda https://www.law.hawaii.edu/personnel/krieger/linda
kepler1 6y ago
Here are some tips, and I would say especially in law, where you may tend to talk in principles when in fact numbers do become important. -- 1. Take an interest in data. Be interested in the details of how statistics and numbers make things more complicated than black or white. Take a look each day at some of the more popular plots on https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/ https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/ . Go to wikipedia and read about the demographic distribution of the USA, or the federal tax brackets, and how you would visualize those in data. And think about what data, numbers, information you would need to plot such things. Write down the example data you would need and think about how to plot it, or make some conclusion about it. Think about where in your cases you would bring in data (and of what kind) to support the point. -- 2. Be interested in why small differences in data can change the "takeaway" point of what you're seeing. What would it take in numbers to reach the conclusion you're reaching? How reliable are those numbers, and how do they interact that some error in one would change your whole conclusion? Learning to like the detail behind a "principle" is important. When Justice xyz questioned the petitioner on the distance radius of doctors who were able to be affiliated with an abortion-performing hospital and the effect on the number of women with access to medical procedures, why did that matter? -- 3. Don't be satisfied with the summary numbers that someone tells you. Learn to ask the next level question about the numbers and think about what it means. When some article or person on the news says, "xyz went up by 30%", ask for more -- what number did it go from to? When was it measured, and by what metric? What was the error? If it went from 3 to 4, well, is that meaningful to say it went up by 30%? When they say a vaccine has 90% efficacy, what does that mean? What numbers are they looking at to say such a thing? What number would you look at? You will know you've reached a level of quantitative thinking when you can call bullshit on other people's claimed statistics, or ask "did they really measure that in a meaningful way?". If you don't take an interest in numbers and how people present them, and what they mean, you can just be led around by other people who are in control of them. It will be in your interest and increase your future success against adversaries to feel comfortable with numbers.

lordnacho 6y ago

Headline is right. Nothing can substitute quant ability. Both in terms of what it gives you professionally, but also in terms of the depth of the world you can explore. Go and talk to someone who isn't on the mathy side of nerdness. It is as if an entire world is missing, and not just missing. I don't know much about the history some particular country, but I can catch a curiosity and read a book about it just from wondering. Most people will not have heard of complex numbers, and will not think to look it up. About the football, I think CTE issue is going to balloon in the coming years. In the UK there's a Rugby World Cup winner who can't remember winning it. Parents are wise to observe the decisions of a guy who would have been paid millions a year but chose not to, in order to preserve his mind. It's unfortunate because gridiron is a fascinating sport.

mistermann 6y ago
"Single most important", even if technically true, can also be misleading.
- maverickJ 6y ago
  Yup. I have a problem with “single most important”
  - kordlessagain 6y ago
    Getting hung up on words is a thing with some people. Not everything can be put into words and have it stick for all time. Things change. Dogma emerges. Impermanence happens.
    - klyrs 6y ago
      "Is the single most important thing" is plainly hyperbole. For instance, that statement cannot be unconditional. If a bus is barreling towards you, the single most important thing is to get out of the way of that bus. No time to measure it, measure its velocity, calculate the rate at which you need to move. The single most important thing is to get moving now. As a mathematician, I read that headline and say "what are your axioms?" And that's a quantitative response to that qualitative headline, so no apologies.

invalidOrTaken 6y ago

I'm so happy for him. It sounds like a life well-aligned, so far.

maverickJ 6y ago

Being able to think quantitatively is very important but saying being capable of thinking quantitatively as the single most important thing is a abut suspect. There is also qualitative thinking which is criminally underrated. I reckon that one needs to combine qualitative and quantitative thinking. Qualitative thinking can drive quantitative thinking. Some research on qualitative factors was done on Olympic swimmers. This link below shows its application for excellence for anyone interested. https://leveragethoughts.substack.com/p/what-is-excellence https://leveragethoughts.substack.com/p/what-is-excellence

MaximumYComb 6y ago

He retired from the NFL at 26, so sadly I think a lot of neural damage has already been done. High school football, 4 years of university and then another 3-4 professional seasons. He has still made a great choice in retiring early, he's the available information to minimise the damage. I played 7 years of rugby growing up and I hope I haven't done long term damage. I've been concussed a few times, etc.

georgeoliver 6y ago

Except when you're writing qualitative article titles.

cutler 6y ago

The phrase "sweeping generalisation" comes to mind.

heymijo 6y ago

I'm curious what ideas people here have to best address our world's collective quantitative illiteracy.

cupofcoffee 6y ago

Overrated mathematician that just because plays football goes on headlines.

psychometry 6y ago
Could I see your list of mathematician rankings? Sounds fascinating.
- cupofcoffee 6y ago
  They are too busy doing math to write memoirs and be publicity hounds.
  - whymauri 6y ago
    The entirety of Quanta Magazine begs to differ, lol. Just about every mathematics professor I had at MIT had some form of publicity release on Quanta or on a major news release. Some of the giants were featured in Recountings, a memoir/science history book about the department. What, are they all bad mathematicians now? What a bizarre perspective.
    - cupofcoffee 6y ago
      Were they writing memoirs at 29 with nearly no serious math contributions?

snicker7 6y ago

Urschel recently gave a lecture at MIT's Computational Thinking course (in Julia): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRCGNvMdLEY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRCGNvMdLEY

FranklinMaillot 6y ago

For those interested, Urschel was interviewed in this great episode of the Numberphile Podcast. https://www.numberphile.com/podcast/john-urschel https://www.numberphile.com/podcast/john-urschel

cafard 6y ago

As a childhood fan of the Cleveland Browns, I'll mention the quarterback Frank Ryan, who had a Ph.D. in math from Rice. He was the QB during the Browns's last NFL championship.