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Maybe because we are not really made to adapt as individuals, only as a specie? And that we reached this level of collaboration and specialization, while usual

Maybe because we are not really made to adapt as individuals, only as a specie? And that we reached this level of collaboration and specialization, while usual at a cellular level is unknown at the individual level?

MrBuddyCasino 6y ago
I think thats going into the right direction. Rationalism is a dead end on the individual level. Some thoughts in this direction: https://alexkaschuta.substack.com/p/trad-the-final-frontier https://alexkaschuta.substack.com/p/trad-the-final-frontier
- QuadmasterXLII 6y ago
  The issue with the trad philosophy is that these cute blog posts never clarify what to do when the “haha quirky” traditions passed down have real life victims. It’s one thing to stick to “let the cassava rest” or “don’t eat shellfish” but I’ll be damned before I go along with “stone the rape victims” or “enslave anyone with skin darker than a manilla folder”
  - MrBuddyCasino 6y ago
    This is more about a change in perspective. Its about giving a voice to the generations that existed before us, and what they have to tell us about how societies function and how to optimize for human happiness. The alternative is making up the rules of how civilisation works from first principles using a rationalist blank slate, which went horribly wrong when the communists did it, and goes completely off the rails right now [0]. The idea that we are rational decision-making machines, where all you have to do is to allow maximum freedom of decision making on an individual level, and you will automatically arrive at a happiness maximum, turns out not to be true. Communities are important, (shared) values are important, the right norms are important. There is much of value to be learned. It is not about accepting all the old ideas, because norms are evolving for good reasons, but instead take a hard look and evaluate which ones actually made a lot of sense. [0] https://twitter.com/swipewright/status/1340199529891549184?s=21 https://twitter.com/swipewright/status/1340199529891549184?s...
marcosdumay 6y ago
So, not much better than insects? All of our fitness is due to memetic evolution, that is supposed to run on a time not comparable to genetic one. If it takes a generation to clean the memetic noise, that doesn't work at all. Given that we are a quite successful species, I doubt those observations generalize well.
- vagrantJin 6y ago
  > Given that we are a quite successful species I'm given to think we're 'successful' mostly by blind luck COVID gave us a reality check and I doubt most people recognised it as such. If it had Ebola mortality rate, any delusions of progress would be washed away with exacting precision. We are here by grace it seems, unscientific as that sounds, and have been resting on our heels giving generous valuations to meaningless companies. Heres a quote: The people of old knew and drew maps with 'here be the dragon', now they don't. Doesnt mean the dragons aren't there.
  - bspammer 6y ago
    If the virus had ebola mortality rates I genuinely think it would have done less damage than covid has. When people are genuinely afraid for their lives they're more likely to follow lockdowns.
- jpttsn 6y ago
  Yes: Much human progress is faster than generational speed. We didn’t have to wait for Oppenheimer’s kids to start believing neutrons existed. This points to some memetic evolution, which can be behind important changes. Still: average people seem to change their minds very slowly and reluctantly, if at all.

MrBuddyCasino 6y ago

I think thats going into the right direction. Rationalism is a dead end on the individual level. Some thoughts in this direction: https://alexkaschuta.substack.com/p/trad-the-final-frontier https://alexkaschuta.substack.com/p/trad-the-final-frontier

QuadmasterXLII 6y ago
The issue with the trad philosophy is that these cute blog posts never clarify what to do when the “haha quirky” traditions passed down have real life victims. It’s one thing to stick to “let the cassava rest” or “don’t eat shellfish” but I’ll be damned before I go along with “stone the rape victims” or “enslave anyone with skin darker than a manilla folder”
- MrBuddyCasino 6y ago
  This is more about a change in perspective. Its about giving a voice to the generations that existed before us, and what they have to tell us about how societies function and how to optimize for human happiness. The alternative is making up the rules of how civilisation works from first principles using a rationalist blank slate, which went horribly wrong when the communists did it, and goes completely off the rails right now [0]. The idea that we are rational decision-making machines, where all you have to do is to allow maximum freedom of decision making on an individual level, and you will automatically arrive at a happiness maximum, turns out not to be true. Communities are important, (shared) values are important, the right norms are important. There is much of value to be learned. It is not about accepting all the old ideas, because norms are evolving for good reasons, but instead take a hard look and evaluate which ones actually made a lot of sense. [0] https://twitter.com/swipewright/status/1340199529891549184?s=21 https://twitter.com/swipewright/status/1340199529891549184?s...

marcosdumay 6y ago

So, not much better than insects? All of our fitness is due to memetic evolution, that is supposed to run on a time not comparable to genetic one. If it takes a generation to clean the memetic noise, that doesn't work at all. Given that we are a quite successful species, I doubt those observations generalize well.

vagrantJin 6y ago
> Given that we are a quite successful species I'm given to think we're 'successful' mostly by blind luck COVID gave us a reality check and I doubt most people recognised it as such. If it had Ebola mortality rate, any delusions of progress would be washed away with exacting precision. We are here by grace it seems, unscientific as that sounds, and have been resting on our heels giving generous valuations to meaningless companies. Heres a quote: The people of old knew and drew maps with 'here be the dragon', now they don't. Doesnt mean the dragons aren't there.
- bspammer 6y ago
  If the virus had ebola mortality rates I genuinely think it would have done less damage than covid has. When people are genuinely afraid for their lives they're more likely to follow lockdowns.
jpttsn 6y ago
Yes: Much human progress is faster than generational speed. We didn’t have to wait for Oppenheimer’s kids to start believing neutrons existed. This points to some memetic evolution, which can be behind important changes. Still: average people seem to change their minds very slowly and reluctantly, if at all.