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The press coverage for Cyberpunk seems to be far worth than what you usually see for games similarly bugged at release, especially for a game with good review o

by brmgb 6y ago

The press coverage for Cyberpunk seems to be far worth than what you usually see for games similarly bugged at release, especially for a game with good review on PC. Then again, it's a Polish game from a studio with no American office and apparently with little regard for the current trend in American culture (cue The Guardian review). I didn't really expect less.

ojnabieoot 6y ago
> it's a Polish game from a studio with no American office and apparently with little regard for the current trend in American culture (cue The Guardian review) The Guardian righty criticized Cyberpunk for misogyny and xenophobia. The idea that these concerns are just some quirk of Anglo-American culture which is alien to Poles is an idiotic, offensive, condescending assertion which manages to be equally wrong about both America and Poland.
- effry-much 6y ago
  No it isn't. Those concepts are a fetish of a very small (yet influential) group of people residing exclusively in the West. 90% of the world doesn't care. And as a Polish person myself, I can assure you this is not a condescending and not wrong about Poland at all. And just because you are offended it doesn't make you right.
  - HelloMcFly 6y ago
    You have no women in your society concerned with misogyny? I know for a fact that isn't true as I work closely with several Polish women (residing in Poland). Perhaps they are not representative of others, but I doubt very much Poland is free from misogyny and that women don't care either way. The idea that 90% of the world doesn't care about something that affects 50% of the population is a reach. And the idea that nobody cares about xenophobia also seems unlikely. It's a less diverse country, sure, but the debate around migrants in Poland have been public and at times quite emotive. Maybe it's all smoke no fire, but it when Jaroslaw Kaczynski helped the PiS rise to power while denigrating migrants throughout, you can't help but be doubtful that xenophobia isn't meaningful to some of those smaller pockets of non-native Poles in your country. EDIT: I do not know if these concerns are merited within the context of the game itself. I have not played Cyberpunk 2077. I only take issue with your belief that misogyny and xenophobia are of no concern to people in central or eastern Europe. It sounds like an opinion of someone without such cares personally, not someone who can attest that such cares are unwarranted.
    - effry-much 6y ago
      I don't believe in your good intentions regarding this conversation. Why? Well because you constructed this straw man argument that I meant literally no one in Poland cares about the Western SJW values. It is obvious that you will find people like that - usually among 'grievance studies' graduates, or heavy social-media users that tend to become infected with the 'woke culture'. Regarding misogyny, sure we have it here. Same with misandry, but somehow only the first issue is important according to the church of SJW. Xenophobia is not an issue when you realise that Poland in the last years issued more residence permits to non-EU immigrants than any other country in the EU. From what I see, you do what usually woke people do - they take some issue, fetishise it, misrepresent by a factor of 10 or 100, then claim whoever doesn't agree with their view is a fascist. And in the meantime people in Poland live everyday lives, not caring about all that stuff. Half a century of soviet propaganda made us more immune to the progressive socialist propaganda than most societies, I suppose.
      - HelloMcFly 6y ago
        I cannot reference your exact comment because it is now flagged, but I believe you said people in Poland don't care about that these issues are only concerns to a very small but influential niche of Westerners. I do not believe I misrepresented what you wrote, though I may have misrepresented what you meant. But then I read the rest of your comment and I feel comfortable that I didn't misread anything at all. In fact you make that clear at the end: > And in the meantime people in Poland live everyday lives, not caring about all that stuff. I know Polish people that do not think like you. I don't take them to represent the entirety of your country, nor do I take your word either. I'm not really going to debate the topics, nor do I care to defend myself against the imagined caricature you've conjured of me. I just think your claims to represent the reality in Poland do not square with the reality I know others live or behavior that is plainly evident from your major political party in power. Of course that party doesn't represent everyone anymore than Trump represents most Americans, but it evidences something real and tangible.
        aaron695 6y ago
  - ojnabieoot 6y ago
    You are just full of shit. Kaczynski wouldn’t have described LGBT rights as a “threat to Poland” if it weren’t for all the brave Polish activists who do in fact care about these things. 30% of Poles support same-sex marriage. The idea that the governing party of Poland speaks for all Poles is just fascist bullshit.
    - effry-much 6y ago
      So how does the LGBT rights relates to the topic we discussed, that is : misogyny and xenophobia? I think this lack of ability to actually communicate with other people is typical for SJШs. This way they create a mental safe space where they isolate themselves from reality.
      - leetcrew 6y ago
        it seems like a reasonable proxy to me. most people who care about LGBT rights also care about misogyny and xenophobia, or at least claim to. this is what they call "intersectionalism".
    - leetcrew 6y ago
      if only 30% of poles support same-sex marriage, doesn't that support the position that poland is not as concerned with LGBT issues as the west? in america, which is hardly seen as a bastion of social justice, that number is more like 60%.
    - batushka3 6y ago
      LGBT is an ideology, not "a rights package", so it's perfectly normal no reject it. All shamed eastern EU countries have working anti discrimination laws years in place. Even gay people hate LGBT, look at Jozsef Szajer example.
- krageon 6y ago
  Honestly, the criticisms about misogyny and xenophobia that I've read (and I've read a lot of them) are extremely low-effort and bland. The story of the game and it's environment is strikingly negative about what is happening and doesn't for even one moment dip into approval. Of course, this is easy to miss if you just spend 30m looking around and all you see is a corporate hellscape.
- zpeti 6y ago
  As someone in a central european country, I can confirm, you are wrong, and we don't care what LMBFQQUBDSBDSAH letter is the fashion today. You have every right to be offended by that, I don't really care.
  - bambataa 6y ago
    Do the LMBFQQUBDSBDSAH people in your country care?
    - golergka 6y ago
      We care for the real struggle with LBTGQ rights like being murdered. But most of us are annoyed and upset by the woke theater of getting offended that most of the american activists are busy with.
- throwaway743 6y ago
  Both The Guardian reviewer and yourself, must've not played the game through. The Guardian mentions misogyny in context to female sex workers (in the game "dolls"), but the reality is that there's an equal amount of male "dolls" within the main storyline (at Clouds) and throughout the game. And if there is any misogyny displayed within the game, it's from scumbag characters. Emphasizing that the attitude/perspective is rooted in scumbag thinking.
- PestoDiRucola 6y ago
  Well Eastern-European countries are notoriously xenophobic and misogynistic. Poland recently outlawed abortion for instance.
  - mensetmanusman 6y ago
    Broad strokes are not useful for real discussion (e.g. replace ‘eastern-European’ with ‘blacks’ or ‘Jews’ and you will see how it reads to your audience.)
  - ojnabieoot 6y ago
    It’s true that Central and Eastern European governments have lagged behind North America and Western Europe when it comes to sexual freedom and LGBT rights, and that reactionary views are more widespread in those societies. The problem is that the Republicans in America is exactly as misogynistic and anti-abortion as Law and Justice in Poland. It is quite likely that Roe v Wade will be turned over in America in 2021. These things are not static and can change dramatically in a decade. Trying to make this about national attitudes is a mistake that only leads to confusion and misunderstanding. And with Poland and Hungary especially, the government has become strongly anti-LGBT in response to increased public support for LGBT rights, as part of a general authoritarian far-right ideology. This complicated political development with a homogenous expression of Hungarian/Polish society. And in the case of CD Projekt Red in particular: for starters, you can’t claim “golly, those humble Poles just have different views than you American folk” when your game is set in America, is clearly about American culture, was heavily marketed towards Americans, and prominently features major American actors. And CD Projekt Red has repeatedly apologized for their transphobic GOG ad campaign. They are not hicks who are unaware of some Ivory Tower concern by elite American liberals. They are in fact fully aware of what they are doing and they made a moral choice.
    - effry-much 6y ago
      I think you are just full of shit. Whether you like it or not, the 'woke culture' will end sooner than later, and we will have a full pendulum swing back to the good old game.
  - 6y ago
- coward8675309 6y ago
  I read the comment you just flipped out over as suggesting that the developers weren't tuned into to the current performative hypersensitivity and outrage that is fashionable among members of the American Left and those who pander for their clicks — not that Poles as a people are somehow more misogynistic or xenophobic than Americans.
moonshinefe 6y ago
Wow, thanks for pointing out that review, I really needed a laugh this morning. "This fictional dystopian future isn't politically correct!"
izacus 6y ago
I wonder how much of that criticism is due to them not being an American company with chummy friends to those reviewers. The amount of negativity for some aspects is very wierd, especially when you compare it to the other years blockbuster: Call of Duty Cold War. CoD features an all white male cast, there's no whiff of female or LGBTQ representation. It's also horrifyingly xenophobic and repaints the history in a grossly nationalistic manner. Those were all issues that were brought up in connection to Cyberpunk even though that game is significantly less horrible in every aspect. And yet somehow that wasn't a problem for CoD at all when dishing out ratings.
- bogdon 6y ago
  Since when is Call of Duty so based? Count me in for a copy
- mywittyname 6y ago
  Reviewers aren't stupid enough to piss off the CoD crowd. I enjoy CoD games, but all those issues you mentioned are selling point for the game. Look at what happened to The Last of Us 2, then multiply that by 1000 because CoD players are much more militant in their beliefs that the "PC police" are taking the fun out of everything.
- Raphmedia 6y ago
  > LGBTQ representation Cyberpunk was not well received by the population it was trying to cater to with its customizable genitalia. https://jygglypuffdaddy.com/2020/12/11/an-almost-exhaustive-list-of-cyberpunk-2077-cdpr-oopsies/ https://jygglypuffdaddy.com/2020/12/11/an-almost-exhaustive-...
  - claudiawerner 6y ago
    Given the behaviour outlined in the post, I'm not sure if that is the population they were trying to cater to - and if it was, it doesn't look like they tried very hard.
dogma1138 6y ago
Cyberpunk 2077 had a budget of over $300M the flack it's getting is because CDPR is no longer some small time studio that is known for good attitude towards DRM and a very long term support for it's titles. When your game development costs outclass that of GTA 5 and probably in the ballpark of RDR2 and you release this mess after delaying the game by a WHOLE YEAR you'll get flack because you deserve it not because you are Polish.
- sgift 6y ago
  That's not what the flack in various reviews is about. Read some of them on metacritic. The GP is right, those who rated it low often didn't do it because of the bugs, but because of "this near-future dystopia shows people having to make desperate decisions to survive." .. yeah, thanks. Who would've thought.
  - d3nj4l 6y ago
    > The GP is right, those who rated it low often didn't do it because of the bugs, but because of "this near-future dystopia shows people having to make desperate decisions to survive." .. yeah, thanks Can you point to such reviews? Of course, random people on reddit or your family don't count, since GGP mentioned media.
    - sgift 6y ago
      https://www.theguardian.com/games/2020/dec/16/cyberpunk-2077-review-cd-projekt https://www.theguardian.com/games/2020/dec/16/cyberpunk-2077...
      - d3nj4l 6y ago
        I read the whole review. I cannot find anything in there that matches what you said.
      - dogma1138 6y ago
        No on takes The Guardian seriously... the sex and violence isn't what people are complaining about, TW3 had plenty of that and there plenty of kooks that complained that middle ages central Europe didn't had enough diversity despite the fact that it's a fantasy setting with a bunch of other races...
d3nj4l 6y ago
It's frankly absurd that people are trying to pin this on the media. In the past two weeks, CD Project Red: - Told gamers the game "runs surprisingly well on consoles", which is very euphemistic to say the least - Didn't give reviewers any review codes for the consoles, meaning console players could only find out about the game's horrid performance on consoles on launch date - Didn't allow reviewers to post their own footage for the first review embargo, meaning the first wave of reviews only had B-Roll ad footage from CDPR - After they were caught with their pants down wrt console performance, told customers they could get a refund without consulting the platform, so Sony was stuck holding up a deal they didn't know about CDPR used every scummy tactic in the book, and yet still got glowing reviews from the press: the game has an 87 on Metacritic right now, and it had a 90 for a few days after launch. Most reviewers praised the game and expected the bugs to be patched. In fact, in my experience the media has been far more positive about the game than actual players! And this is after they failed to deliver on several core promises. It is honestly hilarious that fans of the game are trying to pin the well deserved negative reaction from the general audience on the media. (And I do have to point out the incredibly funny move of trying to pin this as a "culture war" thing. Yeah, people hate the game because of "SJWs", not because CDPR literally lied to their customers multiple times. Great deflection tactic.)

by brmgb 6y ago

ojnabieoot 6y ago

> it's a Polish game from a studio with no American office and apparently with little regard for the current trend in American culture (cue The Guardian review) The Guardian righty criticized Cyberpunk for misogyny and xenophobia. The idea that these concerns are just some quirk of Anglo-American culture which is alien to Poles is an idiotic, offensive, condescending assertion which manages to be equally wrong about both America and Poland.

effry-much 6y ago
No it isn't. Those concepts are a fetish of a very small (yet influential) group of people residing exclusively in the West. 90% of the world doesn't care. And as a Polish person myself, I can assure you this is not a condescending and not wrong about Poland at all. And just because you are offended it doesn't make you right.
- HelloMcFly 6y ago
  You have no women in your society concerned with misogyny? I know for a fact that isn't true as I work closely with several Polish women (residing in Poland). Perhaps they are not representative of others, but I doubt very much Poland is free from misogyny and that women don't care either way. The idea that 90% of the world doesn't care about something that affects 50% of the population is a reach. And the idea that nobody cares about xenophobia also seems unlikely. It's a less diverse country, sure, but the debate around migrants in Poland have been public and at times quite emotive. Maybe it's all smoke no fire, but it when Jaroslaw Kaczynski helped the PiS rise to power while denigrating migrants throughout, you can't help but be doubtful that xenophobia isn't meaningful to some of those smaller pockets of non-native Poles in your country. EDIT: I do not know if these concerns are merited within the context of the game itself. I have not played Cyberpunk 2077. I only take issue with your belief that misogyny and xenophobia are of no concern to people in central or eastern Europe. It sounds like an opinion of someone without such cares personally, not someone who can attest that such cares are unwarranted.
  - effry-much 6y ago
    I don't believe in your good intentions regarding this conversation. Why? Well because you constructed this straw man argument that I meant literally no one in Poland cares about the Western SJW values. It is obvious that you will find people like that - usually among 'grievance studies' graduates, or heavy social-media users that tend to become infected with the 'woke culture'. Regarding misogyny, sure we have it here. Same with misandry, but somehow only the first issue is important according to the church of SJW. Xenophobia is not an issue when you realise that Poland in the last years issued more residence permits to non-EU immigrants than any other country in the EU. From what I see, you do what usually woke people do - they take some issue, fetishise it, misrepresent by a factor of 10 or 100, then claim whoever doesn't agree with their view is a fascist. And in the meantime people in Poland live everyday lives, not caring about all that stuff. Half a century of soviet propaganda made us more immune to the progressive socialist propaganda than most societies, I suppose.
    - HelloMcFly 6y ago
      I cannot reference your exact comment because it is now flagged, but I believe you said people in Poland don't care about that these issues are only concerns to a very small but influential niche of Westerners. I do not believe I misrepresented what you wrote, though I may have misrepresented what you meant. But then I read the rest of your comment and I feel comfortable that I didn't misread anything at all. In fact you make that clear at the end: > And in the meantime people in Poland live everyday lives, not caring about all that stuff. I know Polish people that do not think like you. I don't take them to represent the entirety of your country, nor do I take your word either. I'm not really going to debate the topics, nor do I care to defend myself against the imagined caricature you've conjured of me. I just think your claims to represent the reality in Poland do not square with the reality I know others live or behavior that is plainly evident from your major political party in power. Of course that party doesn't represent everyone anymore than Trump represents most Americans, but it evidences something real and tangible.
      - aaron695 6y ago
- ojnabieoot 6y ago
  You are just full of shit. Kaczynski wouldn’t have described LGBT rights as a “threat to Poland” if it weren’t for all the brave Polish activists who do in fact care about these things. 30% of Poles support same-sex marriage. The idea that the governing party of Poland speaks for all Poles is just fascist bullshit.
  - effry-much 6y ago
    So how does the LGBT rights relates to the topic we discussed, that is : misogyny and xenophobia? I think this lack of ability to actually communicate with other people is typical for SJШs. This way they create a mental safe space where they isolate themselves from reality.
    - leetcrew 6y ago
      it seems like a reasonable proxy to me. most people who care about LGBT rights also care about misogyny and xenophobia, or at least claim to. this is what they call "intersectionalism".
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    if only 30% of poles support same-sex marriage, doesn't that support the position that poland is not as concerned with LGBT issues as the west? in america, which is hardly seen as a bastion of social justice, that number is more like 60%.
  - batushka3 6y ago
    LGBT is an ideology, not "a rights package", so it's perfectly normal no reject it. All shamed eastern EU countries have working anti discrimination laws years in place. Even gay people hate LGBT, look at Jozsef Szajer example.
krageon 6y ago
Honestly, the criticisms about misogyny and xenophobia that I've read (and I've read a lot of them) are extremely low-effort and bland. The story of the game and it's environment is strikingly negative about what is happening and doesn't for even one moment dip into approval. Of course, this is easy to miss if you just spend 30m looking around and all you see is a corporate hellscape.
zpeti 6y ago
As someone in a central european country, I can confirm, you are wrong, and we don't care what LMBFQQUBDSBDSAH letter is the fashion today. You have every right to be offended by that, I don't really care.
- bambataa 6y ago
  Do the LMBFQQUBDSBDSAH people in your country care?
  - golergka 6y ago
    We care for the real struggle with LBTGQ rights like being murdered. But most of us are annoyed and upset by the woke theater of getting offended that most of the american activists are busy with.
throwaway743 6y ago
Both The Guardian reviewer and yourself, must've not played the game through. The Guardian mentions misogyny in context to female sex workers (in the game "dolls"), but the reality is that there's an equal amount of male "dolls" within the main storyline (at Clouds) and throughout the game. And if there is any misogyny displayed within the game, it's from scumbag characters. Emphasizing that the attitude/perspective is rooted in scumbag thinking.
PestoDiRucola 6y ago
Well Eastern-European countries are notoriously xenophobic and misogynistic. Poland recently outlawed abortion for instance.
- mensetmanusman 6y ago
  Broad strokes are not useful for real discussion (e.g. replace ‘eastern-European’ with ‘blacks’ or ‘Jews’ and you will see how it reads to your audience.)
- ojnabieoot 6y ago
  It’s true that Central and Eastern European governments have lagged behind North America and Western Europe when it comes to sexual freedom and LGBT rights, and that reactionary views are more widespread in those societies. The problem is that the Republicans in America is exactly as misogynistic and anti-abortion as Law and Justice in Poland. It is quite likely that Roe v Wade will be turned over in America in 2021. These things are not static and can change dramatically in a decade. Trying to make this about national attitudes is a mistake that only leads to confusion and misunderstanding. And with Poland and Hungary especially, the government has become strongly anti-LGBT in response to increased public support for LGBT rights, as part of a general authoritarian far-right ideology. This complicated political development with a homogenous expression of Hungarian/Polish society. And in the case of CD Projekt Red in particular: for starters, you can’t claim “golly, those humble Poles just have different views than you American folk” when your game is set in America, is clearly about American culture, was heavily marketed towards Americans, and prominently features major American actors. And CD Projekt Red has repeatedly apologized for their transphobic GOG ad campaign. They are not hicks who are unaware of some Ivory Tower concern by elite American liberals. They are in fact fully aware of what they are doing and they made a moral choice.
  - effry-much 6y ago
    I think you are just full of shit. Whether you like it or not, the 'woke culture' will end sooner than later, and we will have a full pendulum swing back to the good old game.
- 6y ago
coward8675309 6y ago
I read the comment you just flipped out over as suggesting that the developers weren't tuned into to the current performative hypersensitivity and outrage that is fashionable among members of the American Left and those who pander for their clicks — not that Poles as a people are somehow more misogynistic or xenophobic than Americans.

moonshinefe 6y ago

Wow, thanks for pointing out that review, I really needed a laugh this morning. "This fictional dystopian future isn't politically correct!"

izacus 6y ago

I wonder how much of that criticism is due to them not being an American company with chummy friends to those reviewers. The amount of negativity for some aspects is very wierd, especially when you compare it to the other years blockbuster: Call of Duty Cold War. CoD features an all white male cast, there's no whiff of female or LGBTQ representation. It's also horrifyingly xenophobic and repaints the history in a grossly nationalistic manner. Those were all issues that were brought up in connection to Cyberpunk even though that game is significantly less horrible in every aspect. And yet somehow that wasn't a problem for CoD at all when dishing out ratings.

bogdon 6y ago
Since when is Call of Duty so based? Count me in for a copy
mywittyname 6y ago
Reviewers aren't stupid enough to piss off the CoD crowd. I enjoy CoD games, but all those issues you mentioned are selling point for the game. Look at what happened to The Last of Us 2, then multiply that by 1000 because CoD players are much more militant in their beliefs that the "PC police" are taking the fun out of everything.
Raphmedia 6y ago
> LGBTQ representation Cyberpunk was not well received by the population it was trying to cater to with its customizable genitalia. https://jygglypuffdaddy.com/2020/12/11/an-almost-exhaustive-list-of-cyberpunk-2077-cdpr-oopsies/ https://jygglypuffdaddy.com/2020/12/11/an-almost-exhaustive-...
- claudiawerner 6y ago
  Given the behaviour outlined in the post, I'm not sure if that is the population they were trying to cater to - and if it was, it doesn't look like they tried very hard.

dogma1138 6y ago

Cyberpunk 2077 had a budget of over $300M the flack it's getting is because CDPR is no longer some small time studio that is known for good attitude towards DRM and a very long term support for it's titles. When your game development costs outclass that of GTA 5 and probably in the ballpark of RDR2 and you release this mess after delaying the game by a WHOLE YEAR you'll get flack because you deserve it not because you are Polish.

sgift 6y ago
That's not what the flack in various reviews is about. Read some of them on metacritic. The GP is right, those who rated it low often didn't do it because of the bugs, but because of "this near-future dystopia shows people having to make desperate decisions to survive." .. yeah, thanks. Who would've thought.
- d3nj4l 6y ago
  > The GP is right, those who rated it low often didn't do it because of the bugs, but because of "this near-future dystopia shows people having to make desperate decisions to survive." .. yeah, thanks Can you point to such reviews? Of course, random people on reddit or your family don't count, since GGP mentioned media.
  - sgift 6y ago
    https://www.theguardian.com/games/2020/dec/16/cyberpunk-2077-review-cd-projekt https://www.theguardian.com/games/2020/dec/16/cyberpunk-2077...
    - d3nj4l 6y ago
      I read the whole review. I cannot find anything in there that matches what you said.
    - dogma1138 6y ago
      No on takes The Guardian seriously... the sex and violence isn't what people are complaining about, TW3 had plenty of that and there plenty of kooks that complained that middle ages central Europe didn't had enough diversity despite the fact that it's a fantasy setting with a bunch of other races...

d3nj4l 6y ago

It's frankly absurd that people are trying to pin this on the media. In the past two weeks, CD Project Red: - Told gamers the game "runs surprisingly well on consoles", which is very euphemistic to say the least - Didn't give reviewers any review codes for the consoles, meaning console players could only find out about the game's horrid performance on consoles on launch date - Didn't allow reviewers to post their own footage for the first review embargo, meaning the first wave of reviews only had B-Roll ad footage from CDPR - After they were caught with their pants down wrt console performance, told customers they could get a refund without consulting the platform, so Sony was stuck holding up a deal they didn't know about CDPR used every scummy tactic in the book, and yet still got glowing reviews from the press: the game has an 87 on Metacritic right now, and it had a 90 for a few days after launch. Most reviewers praised the game and expected the bugs to be patched. In fact, in my experience the media has been far more positive about the game than actual players! And this is after they failed to deliver on several core promises. It is honestly hilarious that fans of the game are trying to pin the well deserved negative reaction from the general audience on the media. (And I do have to point out the incredibly funny move of trying to pin this as a "culture war" thing. Yeah, people hate the game because of "SJWs", not because CDPR literally lied to their customers multiple times. Great deflection tactic.)