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I think the author has a beef with Amazon. The labor market is based on supply and demand . If the labor supply is more than the demand, then wages will fall. E

I think the author has a beef with Amazon. The labor market is based on supply and demand . If the labor supply is more than the demand, then wages will fall. Except for forklift drivers, most warehouse jobs are unskilled Jobs and during times of high unemployment, prices for unskilled labor tends to fall down. The United States also admits close to a million immigrants every year - mostly via the family based categories. Those also tend to have a downward effect on wages as they compete with local talent for the same jobs .

charlesu 6y ago
If the labor market is based on supply and demand, why are teacher salaries stagnant in the face of perpetual teacher shortages? Why do nice school districts pay more than bad ones despite having far more applicants?
- 0xy 6y ago
  This is misleading considering the average teacher salary is 50% higher than the average salary in general. In some states, that's only the starting salary.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- zp33 6y ago
  Because teachers are not operating in a free market. Teacher salaries come from local governments, who may have to cut budgets.
  - krapp 6y ago
    No one is operating in a free market. Free markets don't exist in the real world - all markets have externalities and influences other than those created by the markets themselves, if only due to those markets existing within states under frameworks of law and regulation. Arguments from simple supply and demand never describe reality accurately enough to be useful.
    - gruez 6y ago
      That doesn't answer the point raised by the parent comment. If I need programmers, and I'm only willing to pay minimum wage, then only one or two show up, is there a programmer shortage? There's plenty of programmers available, just not at minimum wage. The same applies to the school district example. The shortage is because they're not willing to raise wages.
- defertoreptar 6y ago
  Here's one possible explanation: > The vast majority of states adopted new high-stakes teacher evaluation systems between 2011 and 2016. > We find that high-stakes evaluation reforms reduced the supply of newly licensed teachers by 16 to 18%. > Evaluation reforms increased the probability a school had at least one unfilled teaching vacancy with effects concentrated in traditionally hard-to-staff schools. > Evaluation reforms also increased the quality of new teachers by decreasing the supply of teachers coming from less competitive undergraduate institutions. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047272720300761 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00472...
- ab_testing 6y ago
  Because teacher salaries are not driven by market demand but by taxpayer dollars. Taxpayers everywhere are averse to increasing taxes - hence the teaching budgets tend to stagnate and as a result the teacher salaries stagnate.
- jelliclesfarm 6y ago
  https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/2019/school-districts/alameda/oakland-unified/ https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/2019/school-distr... : teachers salaries are not stagnant. Almost half the state budget goes to schools. Ave 70% of school budget goes to staff and teachers salaries. There are Union negotiated raises every single year. And their last drawn salaries as pension for the rest of their lives. All school districts are distributed funds with a LCFF formula where in all the school budget monies goes into a big pot and redistributed according to need and not according to property tax collected. California decided that school budget shouldn’t be decided based upon whether it’s an affluent district or not. And hence the redistribution . Who gets the most? If there are homeless students, ESL parents/students, below poverty line, special Ed , inner cities etc. Why? Because sometimes you need teachers who are bi lingual. Counselors, school security, special Ed teachers etc all need more budget. Even if there is one student with special needs, the school has to hire staff. Schools have gotten creative to get funding. For example..in my medium affluent Bay Area district, spending per student is less than 10k/student. It’s less than average. With a large Asian population, many kids..even though they are American and their immigrant parents can speak English..will be streamed into ESL. Some kids who stay with their grandparents or a home under a trust with utilities in grandparents names are considered ‘homeless’ so they can boost numbers. In California, if someone is homeless, they don’t have to provide proof of their status and schools cannot turn down their children for admission. The more students they can show as needing special Ed, they can avail more funds. They can even apply for federal grants and funds. It’s the only way because the funds meant for our schools is redistributed to rest if Ca. There is another Bay Area school with no swimming pool. So the city voted to pay parcel tax to fund the swimming pool and gym. Then the union wanted to tap into that fund to increase teachers pay. But it’s an earmarked bond and by the time the dust settled, the construction estimates had doubled and the bond money is no longer sufficient. The parents who voted for the parcel tax have their kids in college and still no pool. I am not talking 2-3 years. This is almost 8-9 years. Teachers do get lower salaries than the average tech worker(Altho on average equal to or more than other professionals) but they get their last pay as pension. Unions negotiate it that way. In a way, unionized teachers are to teachers unions what San Francisco’s homeless population is to politicians. If there is no grievance, they have no reason to represent them and to exist. CTA is involved in a lawsuit because they enroll teachers into union with or without their consent to show membership numbers. Nice school districts don’t pay their teachers more. They pay less than bad school districts. Because they don’t have enough ‘special needs’ to justify a larger share of the formula. In nice affluent cities, main streets are filled with tutorial centers and kumon and test prep centers and more. They are the best business to run in California Bay Area. With high density housing becoming mandatory at the risk of cities being sued and fined, schools are getting overcrowded. You hear stories of children having to choose between having lunch and standing in line to go to the restrooms because there aren’t any. And because construction is also unionized, the cost of one extra class room in California is $1-1.5 million. https://www.constructiondive.com/news/making-the-grade-why-school-construction-costs-are-climbing-and-projects-a/571945/ https://www.constructiondive.com/news/making-the-grade-why-s... Also: [..] 1024 square feet The average class size for secondary schools is 1024 square feet and should house approximately 14 - 15 students. These findings have strong implications for government policy. If smaller is better, then fewer students per existing classroom is the answer.[..] the average number of students in my Bay Area city classroom is 30-33. This is also why I am not in favour of high density developments. They place so much stress on the school system and the costs of running these schools shoot upwards astronomically. And that is borne by everyone in the city even though the collected funds go to other parts of CA that are actually low density. As Fremont and Oakland and Cupertino become more and more crowded due to high density developments, it costs more but they get less and less due to redistribution as well as more student numbers. Everything from music to arts to home ec to PE budgets are cut. Meanwhile Visalia or Manteca where the population is sparser get more per student even though they don’t contribute as much to the public education pot. This leads to their teachers being paid more than affluent Bay Area teachers even though the latter has more students and need more budget to build new school infrastructure. Public school system needs to change. There are two ways to do it. Public schools should only be for those who cannot afford private schools. Just reduce tax burden and everyone pays to support those who can’t afford their children’s education. This way, parents can educate their children as they see fit. Be it special Ed or home schooling or religious schools, parents can decide. It will also stabilize demand for homes in high density zip codes. Everyone pays a flat education tax. Another way is for parents to pay a public school/education/children’s tax for the 12 years they send their kids to public school. This would be in addition to the flat tax everyone pays for public school education. When general citizenry pays in taxes for infrastructure of all of the state’s school districts and parents pay for teachers salaries and education expenses, they are funding according to their capability and finding teachers suited for their district. For example, cost of living in Shasta is less than in Bay Area. Teachers salaries can be adjusted to the schools they teach. Now..affluent Bay Area schools, for example..have to get their teachers from Manteca or Stockton because Bay Area is too expensive for them to be locals. This adds travel time and just overall resentment. I hear tech workers complain about driving on the 880 from one part of Silicon Valley to another. But these teachers take the train and then drive from there to their homes between Bay Area and Stockton or Bay Area or Manteca. It’s just wrong on so many levels. And the only one to blame is regional governance in Sacramento who don’t know what they are doing. And now with the HST shelved, public transport isn’t going to get better. With ABAG and MTA combined as one govt org, the body that is forcing Bay Area cities to build high density is the same one that is managing public transport. Needless to say, they are not interested in solving the problems of tax payers. The only way is to increase parcel taxes. It only increases tax burden for everyone with everyone being unhappy. With local control rather than regional governance, each school district is able to direct and steer their special needs according to their abilities. Finally, teachers who cause agitation and bring their politics to the classroom should be fired. Unionized or not. Teaching may be a noble profession, but it’s still a job. This trend of professionals bringing all their baggage and politics and grievances to their job is ruining our state. This is what I have to tell teachers: It’s a job. Teach. They are not your children. Let the parents do the parenting.
Daishiman 6y ago
Yes, I too took Econ 101.

charlesu 6y ago

If the labor market is based on supply and demand, why are teacher salaries stagnant in the face of perpetual teacher shortages? Why do nice school districts pay more than bad ones despite having far more applicants?

0xy 6y ago
This is misleading considering the average teacher salary is 50% higher than the average salary in general. In some states, that's only the starting salary.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
zp33 6y ago
Because teachers are not operating in a free market. Teacher salaries come from local governments, who may have to cut budgets.
- krapp 6y ago
  No one is operating in a free market. Free markets don't exist in the real world - all markets have externalities and influences other than those created by the markets themselves, if only due to those markets existing within states under frameworks of law and regulation. Arguments from simple supply and demand never describe reality accurately enough to be useful.
  - gruez 6y ago
    That doesn't answer the point raised by the parent comment. If I need programmers, and I'm only willing to pay minimum wage, then only one or two show up, is there a programmer shortage? There's plenty of programmers available, just not at minimum wage. The same applies to the school district example. The shortage is because they're not willing to raise wages.
defertoreptar 6y ago
Here's one possible explanation: > The vast majority of states adopted new high-stakes teacher evaluation systems between 2011 and 2016. > We find that high-stakes evaluation reforms reduced the supply of newly licensed teachers by 16 to 18%. > Evaluation reforms increased the probability a school had at least one unfilled teaching vacancy with effects concentrated in traditionally hard-to-staff schools. > Evaluation reforms also increased the quality of new teachers by decreasing the supply of teachers coming from less competitive undergraduate institutions. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047272720300761 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00472...
ab_testing 6y ago
Because teacher salaries are not driven by market demand but by taxpayer dollars. Taxpayers everywhere are averse to increasing taxes - hence the teaching budgets tend to stagnate and as a result the teacher salaries stagnate.
jelliclesfarm 6y ago
https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/2019/school-districts/alameda/oakland-unified/ https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/2019/school-distr... : teachers salaries are not stagnant. Almost half the state budget goes to schools. Ave 70% of school budget goes to staff and teachers salaries. There are Union negotiated raises every single year. And their last drawn salaries as pension for the rest of their lives. All school districts are distributed funds with a LCFF formula where in all the school budget monies goes into a big pot and redistributed according to need and not according to property tax collected. California decided that school budget shouldn’t be decided based upon whether it’s an affluent district or not. And hence the redistribution . Who gets the most? If there are homeless students, ESL parents/students, below poverty line, special Ed , inner cities etc. Why? Because sometimes you need teachers who are bi lingual. Counselors, school security, special Ed teachers etc all need more budget. Even if there is one student with special needs, the school has to hire staff. Schools have gotten creative to get funding. For example..in my medium affluent Bay Area district, spending per student is less than 10k/student. It’s less than average. With a large Asian population, many kids..even though they are American and their immigrant parents can speak English..will be streamed into ESL. Some kids who stay with their grandparents or a home under a trust with utilities in grandparents names are considered ‘homeless’ so they can boost numbers. In California, if someone is homeless, they don’t have to provide proof of their status and schools cannot turn down their children for admission. The more students they can show as needing special Ed, they can avail more funds. They can even apply for federal grants and funds. It’s the only way because the funds meant for our schools is redistributed to rest if Ca. There is another Bay Area school with no swimming pool. So the city voted to pay parcel tax to fund the swimming pool and gym. Then the union wanted to tap into that fund to increase teachers pay. But it’s an earmarked bond and by the time the dust settled, the construction estimates had doubled and the bond money is no longer sufficient. The parents who voted for the parcel tax have their kids in college and still no pool. I am not talking 2-3 years. This is almost 8-9 years. Teachers do get lower salaries than the average tech worker(Altho on average equal to or more than other professionals) but they get their last pay as pension. Unions negotiate it that way. In a way, unionized teachers are to teachers unions what San Francisco’s homeless population is to politicians. If there is no grievance, they have no reason to represent them and to exist. CTA is involved in a lawsuit because they enroll teachers into union with or without their consent to show membership numbers. Nice school districts don’t pay their teachers more. They pay less than bad school districts. Because they don’t have enough ‘special needs’ to justify a larger share of the formula. In nice affluent cities, main streets are filled with tutorial centers and kumon and test prep centers and more. They are the best business to run in California Bay Area. With high density housing becoming mandatory at the risk of cities being sued and fined, schools are getting overcrowded. You hear stories of children having to choose between having lunch and standing in line to go to the restrooms because there aren’t any. And because construction is also unionized, the cost of one extra class room in California is $1-1.5 million. https://www.constructiondive.com/news/making-the-grade-why-school-construction-costs-are-climbing-and-projects-a/571945/ https://www.constructiondive.com/news/making-the-grade-why-s... Also: [..] 1024 square feet The average class size for secondary schools is 1024 square feet and should house approximately 14 - 15 students. These findings have strong implications for government policy. If smaller is better, then fewer students per existing classroom is the answer.[..] the average number of students in my Bay Area city classroom is 30-33. This is also why I am not in favour of high density developments. They place so much stress on the school system and the costs of running these schools shoot upwards astronomically. And that is borne by everyone in the city even though the collected funds go to other parts of CA that are actually low density. As Fremont and Oakland and Cupertino become more and more crowded due to high density developments, it costs more but they get less and less due to redistribution as well as more student numbers. Everything from music to arts to home ec to PE budgets are cut. Meanwhile Visalia or Manteca where the population is sparser get more per student even though they don’t contribute as much to the public education pot. This leads to their teachers being paid more than affluent Bay Area teachers even though the latter has more students and need more budget to build new school infrastructure. Public school system needs to change. There are two ways to do it. Public schools should only be for those who cannot afford private schools. Just reduce tax burden and everyone pays to support those who can’t afford their children’s education. This way, parents can educate their children as they see fit. Be it special Ed or home schooling or religious schools, parents can decide. It will also stabilize demand for homes in high density zip codes. Everyone pays a flat education tax. Another way is for parents to pay a public school/education/children’s tax for the 12 years they send their kids to public school. This would be in addition to the flat tax everyone pays for public school education. When general citizenry pays in taxes for infrastructure of all of the state’s school districts and parents pay for teachers salaries and education expenses, they are funding according to their capability and finding teachers suited for their district. For example, cost of living in Shasta is less than in Bay Area. Teachers salaries can be adjusted to the schools they teach. Now..affluent Bay Area schools, for example..have to get their teachers from Manteca or Stockton because Bay Area is too expensive for them to be locals. This adds travel time and just overall resentment. I hear tech workers complain about driving on the 880 from one part of Silicon Valley to another. But these teachers take the train and then drive from there to their homes between Bay Area and Stockton or Bay Area or Manteca. It’s just wrong on so many levels. And the only one to blame is regional governance in Sacramento who don’t know what they are doing. And now with the HST shelved, public transport isn’t going to get better. With ABAG and MTA combined as one govt org, the body that is forcing Bay Area cities to build high density is the same one that is managing public transport. Needless to say, they are not interested in solving the problems of tax payers. The only way is to increase parcel taxes. It only increases tax burden for everyone with everyone being unhappy. With local control rather than regional governance, each school district is able to direct and steer their special needs according to their abilities. Finally, teachers who cause agitation and bring their politics to the classroom should be fired. Unionized or not. Teaching may be a noble profession, but it’s still a job. This trend of professionals bringing all their baggage and politics and grievances to their job is ruining our state. This is what I have to tell teachers: It’s a job. Teach. They are not your children. Let the parents do the parenting.

Daishiman 6y ago

Yes, I too took Econ 101.