8 ms·

This is incredible, and must be devastating for the development team, especially after all that crunching. As someone who's worked on a (digital-only) title fo

This is incredible, and must be devastating for the development team, especially after all that crunching. As someone who's worked on a (digital-only) title for Xbox One, I'm surprised this game got through the certification process in the first place. From our experience the platform holders are pretty involved, and we regularly gave MS updates on everything from monetization, to UX and controls, to extensive reviews for updates, which caused headaches when the client lagged behind our other platforms. Unfortunately for the developers, the fact of the matter is that there are tens of millions of base PS4s and Xbox Ones out there, and gamers got a bait and switch during this launch. As terrible as it is for them to get the rug pulled under them, Sony risks a lot more by not issuing refunds for incredibly broken products. A lot of the appeal of console gaming is the relative plug-and-play factor that comes with it, and the software regularly costs more to boot — via higher pricing, lack of sales, or both.

pjmlp 6y ago
Actually I see it as positive, because it proves that crunching isn't worth it, if this what happens coming out of burned developers. The industry keeps bleeding to many people that could have made huge contributions, but decided to invest into industries where crushing isn't part of the culture. For example, I rather do GUIs and 3D stuff for boring enteprise projects than spending endless nights and weekends fixing bugs on engine code.
- drchopchop 6y ago
  Yup, left AAA a long time ago. Way more money, work-life balance, and job opportunities available when you leave the game industry. It exploits developers who are initially passionate about the field, and then leaves them in a state where it's very difficult to leave (because it's very specific skills that don't easily transfer to other industries)
  - alfalfasprout 6y ago
    If you work on game engines, trading is a fantastic transition since you'll already have high performance C++ experience.
    - ptcampbell 6y ago
      Can you elaborate on this?
- aerovistae 6y ago
  Yepppp I am way more interested in games than web dev but here I get paid well and have a loose and comfortable schedule / environment. It's a no-brainer.
- taytus 6y ago
  I fully agree with you that crunching isn't worth it. All of this mess isn't because of crunching thou. It was a massive fuck up from the leadership team. No crunching (or lack of) would ever solve it The way they lied to the media, players, etc. Their intentions were always to lie and hide the facts.
  - nx7487 6y ago
    Yeah, I'm so curious about what they were doing for the last 2 years. It seems like the artists have been working on the game for 5+ years: the world is huge and full of interesting and detailed environments. The graphics are amazing (on PC). But it's like the gameplay and open-world systems were written in the last year or two, and it shows.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mercer 6y ago
While I do have immense sympathy for the devs, it does bother me that none of them blew the whistle. Many, if not most, should've known that this game was nothing like what was promised, and practically unplayable on PS4 or XBONE. Yet they said nothing.
- thomasedwards 6y ago
  And possibly lose their job during a massive pandemic? It’s hard to be a whistleblower.
  - tantalor 6y ago
    Retaliation against whistleblowers is illegal.
    - p0nce 6y ago
      Typical developer is not allowed by contract to say anything related to the product externally. They are just respecting a contract they signed.
      - meibo 6y ago
        That's basically all of the game industry - from testers to PR to HR to art. When I onboarded at a global AAA game dev place in Japan, I got a separate sheet detailing my rights as a whistleblower - it's lucky to have these, but I doubt anyone would risk their standing/future in the industry because of something like this, especially during a pandemic.
    - oneeyedpigeon 6y ago
      Not in Poland.
      - cambalache 6y ago
        Are you actually Polish? Or are you just assuming because it is not America they dont "enjoy" America Freedom(C)?
sabon 6y ago
Allegedly, the game was rejected 6 times before it was finally approved. Even then, it was approved on the condition that the big bugs will be fixed by December 10. Apparently, they weren't.
- Macha 6y ago
  They listed the original delay as due to current gen consoles, it's likely one of the two _did_ veto their previous launch plans on one of the consoles and they decided to delay the whole launch. The question is if it was even worse on consoles 6 weeks ago, or if they just cajoled the platform holder in question into letting them launch anyway.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - boardwaalk 6y ago
    This is one of those stories that needs to eventually have an article written by someone like Jason Schreier.
chrisrhoden 6y ago
> As someone who's worked on a (digital-only) title for Xbox One, I'm surprised this game got through the certification process in the first place. Something I have learned from watching this saga is that those rules seem not to apply to "AAA" developers (this appears to have been fairly wide industry knowledge, but I was not aware of it). It may also be a relatively new development, but because of how hot games are coming in, it sounds like Sony and MS are now willing to assume that day one patches will fix the issues if the studio says that they will. Not just for CDPR.
- panpanna 6y ago
  I am fairly sure sony prefers a buggy cyberpunk to a cyberpunk that is available on xbox but not ps4.
  - stu2b50 6y ago
    Apparently not, since after they pulled Cyberpunk from the PSN store* this effectively the state of things * yes, I know you can still buy the physical copy from retailers
- meheleventyone 6y ago
  Patches have to go through certification as well. Day one patches aren’t literally pushed out hot on day one. They’ll have gone through testing and cert.
selykg 6y ago
What I read, and apparently it was discussed on the CDPR emergency board meeting, is that Sony and MS trusted CDPR to correct the issues and have the game in a good state prior to launch. Seems they failed at that pretty badly.
- amyjess 6y ago
  I hope this leads to Sony and Microsoft performing Apple-style reviews on all future games from now on. Completely audit every game and every patch before it can be sold on the platform.
  - selykg 6y ago
    I don't think that's tenable. Could you imagine trying to test a 40 hour game? Sony and MS's teams aren't QA. Neither are Apple's. Apple's team looks for the standard stuff like are they using IAPs properly? Is there anything deceiving happening here? etc. By the sounds of things Sony and MS's review teams did find that Cypberpunk 2077 was NOT in a good spot. But they took CDPR's word that they would fix it before launch (the typical day 1 patch situation). And that bombed hard. I think your expectation on what happens is not in line with reality unfortunately.
Narann 6y ago
> This is incredible, and must be devastating for the development team, especially after all that crunching. I suspect the team knows the game was not ready. But its not up to the team to decide.

pjmlp 6y ago

Actually I see it as positive, because it proves that crunching isn't worth it, if this what happens coming out of burned developers. The industry keeps bleeding to many people that could have made huge contributions, but decided to invest into industries where crushing isn't part of the culture. For example, I rather do GUIs and 3D stuff for boring enteprise projects than spending endless nights and weekends fixing bugs on engine code.

drchopchop 6y ago
Yup, left AAA a long time ago. Way more money, work-life balance, and job opportunities available when you leave the game industry. It exploits developers who are initially passionate about the field, and then leaves them in a state where it's very difficult to leave (because it's very specific skills that don't easily transfer to other industries)
- alfalfasprout 6y ago
  If you work on game engines, trading is a fantastic transition since you'll already have high performance C++ experience.
  - ptcampbell 6y ago
    Can you elaborate on this?
aerovistae 6y ago
Yepppp I am way more interested in games than web dev but here I get paid well and have a loose and comfortable schedule / environment. It's a no-brainer.
taytus 6y ago
I fully agree with you that crunching isn't worth it. All of this mess isn't because of crunching thou. It was a massive fuck up from the leadership team. No crunching (or lack of) would ever solve it The way they lied to the media, players, etc. Their intentions were always to lie and hide the facts.
- nx7487 6y ago
  Yeah, I'm so curious about what they were doing for the last 2 years. It seems like the artists have been working on the game for 5+ years: the world is huge and full of interesting and detailed environments. The graphics are amazing (on PC). But it's like the gameplay and open-world systems were written in the last year or two, and it shows.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

mercer 6y ago

While I do have immense sympathy for the devs, it does bother me that none of them blew the whistle. Many, if not most, should've known that this game was nothing like what was promised, and practically unplayable on PS4 or XBONE. Yet they said nothing.

thomasedwards 6y ago
And possibly lose their job during a massive pandemic? It’s hard to be a whistleblower.
- tantalor 6y ago
  Retaliation against whistleblowers is illegal.
  - p0nce 6y ago
    Typical developer is not allowed by contract to say anything related to the product externally. They are just respecting a contract they signed.
    - meibo 6y ago
      That's basically all of the game industry - from testers to PR to HR to art. When I onboarded at a global AAA game dev place in Japan, I got a separate sheet detailing my rights as a whistleblower - it's lucky to have these, but I doubt anyone would risk their standing/future in the industry because of something like this, especially during a pandemic.
  - oneeyedpigeon 6y ago
    Not in Poland.
    - cambalache 6y ago
      Are you actually Polish? Or are you just assuming because it is not America they dont "enjoy" America Freedom(C)?

sabon 6y ago

Allegedly, the game was rejected 6 times before it was finally approved. Even then, it was approved on the condition that the big bugs will be fixed by December 10. Apparently, they weren't.

Macha 6y ago
They listed the original delay as due to current gen consoles, it's likely one of the two _did_ veto their previous launch plans on one of the consoles and they decided to delay the whole launch. The question is if it was even worse on consoles 6 weeks ago, or if they just cajoled the platform holder in question into letting them launch anyway.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- boardwaalk 6y ago
  This is one of those stories that needs to eventually have an article written by someone like Jason Schreier.

chrisrhoden 6y ago

> As someone who's worked on a (digital-only) title for Xbox One, I'm surprised this game got through the certification process in the first place. Something I have learned from watching this saga is that those rules seem not to apply to "AAA" developers (this appears to have been fairly wide industry knowledge, but I was not aware of it). It may also be a relatively new development, but because of how hot games are coming in, it sounds like Sony and MS are now willing to assume that day one patches will fix the issues if the studio says that they will. Not just for CDPR.

panpanna 6y ago
I am fairly sure sony prefers a buggy cyberpunk to a cyberpunk that is available on xbox but not ps4.
- stu2b50 6y ago
  Apparently not, since after they pulled Cyberpunk from the PSN store* this effectively the state of things * yes, I know you can still buy the physical copy from retailers
meheleventyone 6y ago
Patches have to go through certification as well. Day one patches aren’t literally pushed out hot on day one. They’ll have gone through testing and cert.

selykg 6y ago

What I read, and apparently it was discussed on the CDPR emergency board meeting, is that Sony and MS trusted CDPR to correct the issues and have the game in a good state prior to launch. Seems they failed at that pretty badly.

amyjess 6y ago
I hope this leads to Sony and Microsoft performing Apple-style reviews on all future games from now on. Completely audit every game and every patch before it can be sold on the platform.
- selykg 6y ago
  I don't think that's tenable. Could you imagine trying to test a 40 hour game? Sony and MS's teams aren't QA. Neither are Apple's. Apple's team looks for the standard stuff like are they using IAPs properly? Is there anything deceiving happening here? etc. By the sounds of things Sony and MS's review teams did find that Cypberpunk 2077 was NOT in a good spot. But they took CDPR's word that they would fix it before launch (the typical day 1 patch situation). And that bombed hard. I think your expectation on what happens is not in line with reality unfortunately.

Narann 6y ago

> This is incredible, and must be devastating for the development team, especially after all that crunching. I suspect the team knows the game was not ready. But its not up to the team to decide.