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I'm seeing similar things everywhere. I stood in line for a food truck a couple years ago that offered a promotion "$2 off your order if you show us your 5-sta
by maxk42 6y ago
I'm seeing similar things everywhere. I stood in line for a food truck a couple years ago that offered a promotion "$2 off your order if you show us your 5-star review of our truck on [site]." Obviously, you have to do this before you even order your food so I was intensely put-off by this. I gave them a 5-star review with no comment, received my discount, then after I tried the food I edited the review to 1-star with an explanation that it probably would've been a 4-star review had they legitimately just prepared good food but gaming the reviews was a sleazeball move. The review was removed.
Every single game on the Google Play store does this now, too. Instead of just letting people review honestly, they show a pop-up saying "Are you enjoying this game?" if so, they ask you to review it on the store. If not, they ask you to review it via their own private feedback system. Not quite as bad as requiring a 5-star review, but obviously this alters the score the app would otherwise receive.
- vmception 6y agoMy favorite is seeing 5 star reviews that are hijacking the top to complain. I've also seen 1 star reviews that are exalting reviews. But my all time ongoing pet peeve is how recommendation engines especially on video streaming and video game series use numbers and star systems that are not based on any other human's input. Not a critic, not a user score, just an algorithm's confidence score on similarities.
- runawaybottle 6y agoThe 1 star review that loves the product but hated the way it was shipped. Someone needs to write a textbook on the pathology of those people.
- JamesSwift 6y agoNo no no, we need to better understand the people who respond in the Q & A section with variants of "I don't know"
- Jermaine_Jabi 6y agoI think those are a side effect of Amazon sending out emails like 'what did you think of x product? Reply with your review!' after a purchase. Why they don't filter them out, I don't know.
- Jermaine_Jabi 6y agoEdit, I mean the ones that ask you questions about a product you purchased
- ben509 6y agoMy theory: I think Amazon is showing the unanswered questions to random people, and they answer "I don't know" to make them go away.
- slavik81 6y agoAmazon sends sends the questions out and presents them as if you specifically were being asked by somebody. It's like if Amazon built a guide map by walking up to people on the street and asking, "how do you get to the airport from here?" and writing down the response verbatim. A reasonable person would tend to respond, "I don't know" rather than ignoring a direct question asked of them.
- bigbubba 6y agoThe customer paid not only for the product but also for the service of having that product delivered to them. Asking them to restrict their review to only one aspect of what they paid for does not seem reasonable.
- maxk42 6y agoDepends. Oftentimes the shipping problem is the carrier's fault (e.g. UPS or FedEx) and not in control of the shipper at all. Other times they packaged it poorly and it predictably broke, leaked, or melted and it's entirely the carrier's fault. But I do see a plethora of comments that seem to be blaming things like shipping delays on the seller.
- MereInterest 6y agoAnd in that case, the company's response is pretty important. There's a world of difference between (a) "it was fine on our end, take it up with the shipper", (b) "we are sorry this happened and are shipping a replacement", and (c) "thank you, and we are looking into other shipping options as a result of the frequent complaints". Some combination of (b) and (c) is acceptable. (a) is not acceptable.
- dfxm12 6y agoIt's about giving proper weight to each aspect. Giving a 1 star review to an otherwise 4 star experience is dishonest if you only have some issue with the shipping (or marketing tactics), just as an example.
- powersnail 6y agoI have seen a 1 star review of a glass container, which broke when the buyer dropped it. I mean, come on!
- abiogenesis 6y agoAre you referring to the product named "Unbreakable Glass Container, AS SEEN ON TV"?
- zeristor 6y agoI’ve done this, and stand by it. Since Amazon allows you to rate the delivery by third party suppliers, but not by itself. On the whole Amazon is good, but occasionally in the past it was poor, however there was no Avenue to raise that.
- mjevans 6y agoShipping is part of the purchase process. If the product is good, but the shipping is not, buyers deserve to be informed. If there are separate reviews for the product and the shipping of a product (still tied to that product, but also the shipping carrier that was used for that order) then a split review (one for each) is legitimate. Otherwise if there's only one review spot, EVERYTHING is on the table.
- dolmen 6y agoAnd in shipping we could distinguish packaging and transport. I would like to rate both.
- Natanael_L 6y agoOne of the problems here is when Amazon has one shared item listing for multiple sellers. A bad review for the product due to one seller's shipping hurts all the other sellers too.
- staplers 6y agoLuckily we have rotten tomatoes as a decent indicator of actual critic reviews. Until they start gaming the reviews to boost movies they (subsidiary of Comcast) want to promote.
- zeroonetwothree 6y agoYou think they aren’t already?
- EpicEng 6y agoPersonally I couldn't care less about the critic reviews/score, but the audience score is usually spot on for the stuff I'm interested in.
- vmception 6y agoSadly it only used to be that way for me. In genres I liked, the consensus could be all the way down to 30% and I knew I would enjoy it, as in 30% and above would be a good movie for me. But then things with 70% positive audience reviews in the same genre started being imo the dumbest poorly written, composed, experiences... I guess this is a sign of getting old and out of touch? or the presence of shills? I dont know but I know not to trust them
- mejutoco 6y agoI like to use the audience score as well. I found it has some pitfalls occasionally, although they can be fun. Certain movies attract a very narrow and enthusiastic, that will upvote the movie disproportionately (people not interested in the kind of movie will not even vote). A my little pony movie can get as good scores as the Godfather. Maybe it is, who knows.
- BlueTemplar 6y agoYeah, this is why critic reviews are still needed.
- b0rsuk 6y agoPortal, the game by Valve, has some rabid fanboys. I only played it this year because my computer was unable to handle it. I was disappointed with how easy and short the game was. Style over substance for someone who enjoys Baba Is You or Riven. Anyway, the first several negative reviews read like this: "Are you seriously looking for a negative review? Come on! The game is amazing! Buy it!" I hate the people who don't cast their vote to represent just their opinion, but rather try to get the score where they think it belongs. " Absolutely amazing dont listen to the "gamers" that havent even played it yet and just love to get on a hate train. " (10) " A fantastic game troubled by some technical issues. It's obvious that right now it doesn't deserve that 10/10 (with some patches tho? possible), but I'm still scoring it like that to counter all the review bombing GTA kiddies (more depth, rotfl) and trolls that haven't even seen the game. " (10) The above from the most overhyped game of the year.
- pjc50 6y ago> Portal, the game by Valve Published in 2007. > I only played it this year Portal is to a great extent a tech demo for its unprecedented "portal" rendering. This enabled some very 3D puzzles of a style that gamers hadn't seen before. Of course it's going to look a little pale in 2020, although you'd hope any original bugs were fixed.
- b0rsuk 6y agoSharpshooter fallacy: shooting a rifle at a barn and painting a bullseye around the biggest cluster of hits. "Portal is to a great extent a tech demo" (therefore it shouldn't be judged as a game) Yet Portal is sold as a game in its own right. Riven was released in 1997 and is still a delightful intellectual challenge today, with nothing really like it. It's very much the opposite of modern games with a built-in GPS system telling you where to go. Riven is clunky, pixellated, but integrates good puzzles and a well thought out world in a way I haven't seen anywhere else. It was also a technical feat at the time. Like I said in my Steam review, I believe Portal popularity comes from the fact it's a puzzle game attractive enough to draw people who don't play puzzle games. Baba Is You is going to be a classic 20 years from now, despite its ugly graphics. In hands of anyone else, it would be just a gimmick, like Portal. But the idea was masterfully executed.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y agoCould you not pay full price for the first order then if you liked the food done the review and show them next time?
- pishpash 6y agoOr returned the $2 once the 1 star review was left.
- serf 6y ago>Every single game on the Google Play store does this now, too. it will be a problem until the transaction is A-B with the merchant. as long as there is a central entity between the two profiting somehow (yelp,google play, amazon, ebay, etc), it'll always be gamed like that, hoping the central party stays willfully blind to the gaming of the rules. And the central party will stay willfully blind without legislation -- it affects their profits.
- nextos 6y agoGoogle reviews are massively edited upon complaints. A while ago I rented a pretty nice and expensive apartment in Southern England. I was the first tenant and there were huge pipe leaks and other horrible construction issues, like a misaligned lift that kept trapping people inside. Neighbors next door, who owned apartments built by the same company, had different but equally annoying issues. And the company didn't do much to fix them. After moving out, I left a pretty elaborate 1-star review in their Google profile. This triggered tons of very descriptive 1-star reviews, as customers were asked their opinion by a Google bot. After a few months, they were also deleted. Said company has been featured by Bucks newspapers as they bully locals that oppose their tactics to allocate land by bribing councils. I guess there's nothing like having aggressive solicitors.
- rebuilder 6y agoSelectively removing negative reviews is so sleazy, one wonders if it is actually even legal. Surely there's some truth-in-advertising legislation this falls under?
- hunter2_ 6y agoNot a lawyer but I think in the US, you have the right to remain silent. I don't think a law can compel anyone to publish anything. Might be the first amendment.
- greggman3 6y agoYes, it's sad. I've had Yelp and AirBnB remove reviews. I don't know what to do about it. They Yelp one I can't verify the service (a dentist) didn't get better. The AirBnB one I can tell nothing was fixed because the issues are verifiable in the listing itself.
- ketamine__ 6y agoThird-party anonymous reviews. It would have to be anonymous because Airbnb bans users for reviewing outside their platform. https://thenextweb.com/syndication/2019/02/18/how-i-got-banned-for-life-from-airbnb/ https://thenextweb.com/syndication/2019/02/18/how-i-got-bann...
- bradenb 6y agoWhile I think you mostly played this right I also greatly dislike people leaving totally binary reviews. 1 star because they had sleazy review tactics? This is part of the problem. We need unbiased reviews now more than ever. So many people aren't going to share your principles so trying for force the issue by giving a misleading rating is not a good approach. I think it would have been much better to just review it based on the product you're purchasing and if you feel so inclined put a big "DISCLAIMER" at the top that people will read first that goes into your feelings on the matter.
- johnmaguire2013 6y agoYou're implying the review is about the product. If the review is about the company (e.g. a restaurant), then a 1-star review is warranted, if you feel that a company which games reviews is a 1-star company. I certainly do.
- ghayes 6y agoThis is why I do like the reviews on food delivery apps. You separately rate the food and the courier so that one doesn’t affect the other’s score too dramatically.
- oldkn 6y agoWhich food delivery apps do you have in mind? In my experience they are heavily engineered towards leaving only positive reviews, and as a result the range of scores is 4.0-5.0 rather than 1-5. Ubereats says things like "this review will be public with your name", and the timing of the review prompt and wording of the question all feels like it's trying to optimize the chance of a positive review.
- EpicEng 6y agoCreate a system in which people almost always defer to the highest score and then blame the little guy for trying to game it. I don't blame them at all. Nearly everyone else is doing it, so not doing it means it's harder to feed your kids. BTW, we're the ones who created these systems.
- zwily 6y agoUnfortunately, that food truck operator is a victim too. They live and die by reviews, and if everyone else does it, they have to too to survive. The whole thing is jacked up.
- interpol_p 6y agoAsking for a review is OK. Asking for a five-star review is not I imagine that food truck operator would do a lot better by simply asking "Like or hate our food? Leave an honest review on <site> for a discount" If their food and service is good, they'll get the positive reviews they need
- jjeaff 6y agoI'd take that bet. There are so many people that will leave a 5 star review for a discount without thinking twice.
- tertius 6y agoYou're responding to someone that agrees with you. But also states that everyone else is review-farming and that if they don't do it they will be left behind. I.e. your plan is doomed to fail.
- interpol_p 6y agoI'm just stating that there's an alternative to asking for only 5-star reviews that will likely work better. Just asking for honest reviews (and offering a discount for them) is more ethical, and the honesty will be appreciated by customers.
- tertius 6y agoAnd I agree with you that it's the right thing to do. But saying it will work better is probably not true. Except maybe if you include a line like: "were not going to ask you for a 5 star review like others do, but reviews really make it break us and we're trying to be honest. Thanks for the support"
- moron4hire 6y agoIt didn't occur to you that someone might review the food truck and return to it a second time, aka "recurring customers"?
- JohnJamesRambo 6y agoAlmost every single item on Amazon and everywhere else is 4.5 stars. No matter how terrible. I can see one star after one star helpful review but it will still be 4.5 stars for items that just fall apart and are obviously defective. The sellers just game the reviews until they get to that magic 4.5. Goodhart's Law: “When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.” Luckily Amazon will take back anything and they are eating massive return costs from me for not having working, non-gamed reviews.
- ntsplnkv2 6y agoThe most frustrating thing now is seeing a product >4.5 stars, but going to the reviews and all the most recent ones are 1/2.
- Can_Not 6y agoOften I'll find that all the five star reviews describe a completely different product.
- alpaca128 6y agoThat's the trick where the seller replaces a good product's name, description and picture, which effectively transfers all existing(positive) reviews to a different product. Which only shows how many people don't look at a single review if the score is good enough. The other trick that Amazon doesn't give a damn about is using the mechanism meant for different product colors and sizes to combine multiple products into a shared entry, which mixes all the reviews together and makes it basically impossible for the customer to see the score for each individual item. As far as I can tell Amazon's only reaction was to start banning customers who returned too many products. I wonder why.
- Natanael_L 6y agoSteam has done something smart here by displaying both the total score and a recent trend score, so you can see if recent changes has made the game better or worse.
- 6y ago
- daniel-cussen 6y agoFunny I just submitted a thread about how stars are no substitute for regulation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25463251 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25463251 What is a star, really? I believe the concept comes from hotels, where there would absolutely be a star system with integrity where every score was possible. Now it's just theater to pretend your service allows consumer choice.
- higerordermap 6y agoI think the second thing falls into grey area. Users are often unkind and leave 1-star reviews on apps when it's often their fault.
- BlueTemplar 6y agoThat usually means that the advertising is not attracting the right kind of customer.
- higerordermap 6y agoNope. It often means users are too reflexive to not figure out something in one second and leave one star review. And it's about survival in the app stores where everyone else has 4+ rating and few of them are certainly bots.
- BlueTemplar 6y agoApp stores are a form of advertising which attracts these "reflexive" customers.
- lostlogin 6y agoDo people read the Google reviews of a food truck before they buy from it?
- golergka 6y agoI vividly remember these articles about two-stage review growth hacking for all store being on front page of HN about 8 years ago. So, it's not like there are some other people doing this. It's us.
- abandonliberty 6y agoUsers mostly rate apps when they don't work for them, so app creators are highly motivated to encourage happy users to vote. I know of one app where this was drove a 1-star difference in rating. From there it can become quite tempting to further affect review scores.
- andrei_says_ 6y agoAny review system eventually kills all below 5-star businesses. So it is a matter of survival to game the system - because everyone else does. Yes the food truck’s request sucked, but without it they’d be out of business.
- BlueTemplar 6y agoNobody gets exactly 100% positive reviews. And it's about highest reviews, not about clearing some bar. Cheaters must be punished.
- chappi42 6y agoI pointed out such promotions in reviews and never had a rejection. Other than your review I also wrote some sentences about the product. Maybe that makes a difference? In any case it's import that people point out such bad practices. (One time I would have received a gift certificate for 30 $ for a product which costs 25 $. Crazy!)
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]