5 ms·

Not only that, but she threatened Google with a lawsuit _before_ any of the current drama happened (excerpt from her email with regards to the recent firing/res

by uh_uh 6y ago

Not only that, but she threatened Google with a lawsuit _before_ any of the current drama happened (excerpt from her email with regards to the recent firing/resignation): > I’m always amazed at how people can continue to do thing after thing like this and then turn around and ask me for some sort of extra DEI work or input. This happened to me last year. I was in the middle of a potential lawsuit for which Kat Herller and I hired feminist lawyers who threatened to sue Google (which is when they backed off--before that Google lawyers were prepared to throw us under the bus and our leaders were following as instructed) and the next day I get some random “impact award.” Pure gaslighting.

AlanYx 6y ago
That lawsuit threat is really a critical contextual element here. Having a manager who's openly threatening to sue the same company she acts as a manager for creates a host of complicated legal issues for the corporation.
- uh_uh 6y ago
  It honestly baffles me. I also expect had I - or any of the people I know - made similar threats, we would be fired on very short notice. The fact that Google just let this past threat slide seems highly unusual to me.
  - Udik 6y ago
    It just makes you wonder how much toxic behaviour did her managers put up with before deciding that enough is enough, and (more or less) firing a prominent, visible, black, female AI ethicist working in the field of gender equality and racial discrimination. They knew perfectly well how damaging it could have been and yet decided they had enough.
    - uh_uh 6y ago
      Yeah, I guess calling your managers "a bunch of privileged White men" is probably not going to win many friends: https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1331757629996109824?s=20 https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1331757629996109824?s... I find her totally out of line and disagree with her politics but I have to give her that in some sense she is quite brave. Most people would never consider tweeting out something like this because they'd be afraid of getting fired immediately and also suffering a reputational damage that would make applying for future jobs difficult. But she doesn't seem to be fazed by this.
      - tomcam 6y ago
        > in some sense she is quite brave. IMHO she's an unethical ethicist, rude, and presumptuous at best. She has no idea what kind of depredations may have gone on in the lives of people she calls "privileged". I look like a typical fat white bald businessguy. I have been thrown into jail unjustly, raped, beaten, kicked out of schools and shunned from my social group for things I didn't do and would never do, rejected by multiple girlfriends' families because I was not in the right minority group, and more. She has no idea what's gone on in their lives. They on the other hand appear to be treating her with as much public kindness as she is dishing out hatred (publicly).
bonoboTP 6y ago
Since when do people use "gaslighting" this way? She and colleagues seem to use it left and right on Twitter regarding all kinds of behaviors. I thought it had a quite specific meaning in the context of narcissist abusers intentionally making their victims doubt their own sanity.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  It does. She's made this argument explicitly elsewhere; she believes that Google's treatment of her constituted emotional abuse.
  - lawnchair_larry 6y ago
    Emotional abuse isn’t gaslighting though. Almost nobody uses that term logically it seems.
- visarga 6y ago
  They are using storytelling and emotion as a replacement for study and analysis - the preferred method of identity politics. Identity politics means individuality-less politics, where individuals are seen as mere parts of a group, or symbols for the common suffering of the group, and not by themselves. You hurt one you hurt the whole group, is the way they are thinking. We have seen this recently in the Timnit vs Yann LeCun and Pedro vs Anima scandals, even the allies of wokes would be accused of being racist the moment they dared express a slightly more nuanced opinion. You have to approve the lead woke and not add anything or you're instantly the enemy.
- whoooooo123 6y ago
  "gaslighting" does have the specific meaning you describe, or at least it used to, but these days it's mostly just used to mean "saying something I disagree with." It seems to come from a special kind of narcissism in which people are so devoutly convinced of their own moral rectitude that they can't believe anyone might disagree with them in good faith. They're so cocooned in their bubble that they can't process anything resembling a contradictory opinion; it sends them into emotional haywire and their only response is to cry victim. When I hear someone talking about "gaslighting" it significantly lowers my inclination to take them seriously.

by uh_uh 6y ago

AlanYx 6y ago

That lawsuit threat is really a critical contextual element here. Having a manager who's openly threatening to sue the same company she acts as a manager for creates a host of complicated legal issues for the corporation.

uh_uh 6y ago
It honestly baffles me. I also expect had I - or any of the people I know - made similar threats, we would be fired on very short notice. The fact that Google just let this past threat slide seems highly unusual to me.
- Udik 6y ago
  It just makes you wonder how much toxic behaviour did her managers put up with before deciding that enough is enough, and (more or less) firing a prominent, visible, black, female AI ethicist working in the field of gender equality and racial discrimination. They knew perfectly well how damaging it could have been and yet decided they had enough.
  - uh_uh 6y ago
    Yeah, I guess calling your managers "a bunch of privileged White men" is probably not going to win many friends: https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1331757629996109824?s=20 https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1331757629996109824?s... I find her totally out of line and disagree with her politics but I have to give her that in some sense she is quite brave. Most people would never consider tweeting out something like this because they'd be afraid of getting fired immediately and also suffering a reputational damage that would make applying for future jobs difficult. But she doesn't seem to be fazed by this.
    - tomcam 6y ago
      > in some sense she is quite brave. IMHO she's an unethical ethicist, rude, and presumptuous at best. She has no idea what kind of depredations may have gone on in the lives of people she calls "privileged". I look like a typical fat white bald businessguy. I have been thrown into jail unjustly, raped, beaten, kicked out of schools and shunned from my social group for things I didn't do and would never do, rejected by multiple girlfriends' families because I was not in the right minority group, and more. She has no idea what's gone on in their lives. They on the other hand appear to be treating her with as much public kindness as she is dishing out hatred (publicly).

bonoboTP 6y ago

Since when do people use "gaslighting" this way? She and colleagues seem to use it left and right on Twitter regarding all kinds of behaviors. I thought it had a quite specific meaning in the context of narcissist abusers intentionally making their victims doubt their own sanity.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
It does. She's made this argument explicitly elsewhere; she believes that Google's treatment of her constituted emotional abuse.
- lawnchair_larry 6y ago
  Emotional abuse isn’t gaslighting though. Almost nobody uses that term logically it seems.
visarga 6y ago
They are using storytelling and emotion as a replacement for study and analysis - the preferred method of identity politics. Identity politics means individuality-less politics, where individuals are seen as mere parts of a group, or symbols for the common suffering of the group, and not by themselves. You hurt one you hurt the whole group, is the way they are thinking. We have seen this recently in the Timnit vs Yann LeCun and Pedro vs Anima scandals, even the allies of wokes would be accused of being racist the moment they dared express a slightly more nuanced opinion. You have to approve the lead woke and not add anything or you're instantly the enemy.
whoooooo123 6y ago
"gaslighting" does have the specific meaning you describe, or at least it used to, but these days it's mostly just used to mean "saying something I disagree with." It seems to come from a special kind of narcissism in which people are so devoutly convinced of their own moral rectitude that they can't believe anyone might disagree with them in good faith. They're so cocooned in their bubble that they can't process anything resembling a contradictory opinion; it sends them into emotional haywire and their only response is to cry victim. When I hear someone talking about "gaslighting" it significantly lowers my inclination to take them seriously.