3 ms·

Most socialist Scandinavian countries are doing better than the US by most measures of societal wellness (life expectancy, divorce rates, crime, etc).

NoOneNew 6y ago
Also extremely high dependence on oil. They are also not as socialist as people imagine. I think it was Sweden that implemented a bunch of socialist laws in the 70s, their econ tanked and they back peddled on a lot of it. The myth they're still as socialist remains today. Check out Norway's expenditure on welfare programs. It's like 136m euro or something like that per year. I researched this a year or two ago. Then check out how much their state oil brings in. I want you to do it so you can see for yourself how much "norway hates fossil fuels and capitalism". Because without the free market on oil, there would be zero Norwegian welfare system. Yes, Americans call the Scandinavians socialists, the same way dry rub BBQ pit masters call BBQ sauces the devil's abomination to food. It's either anachronistic hyperbole or just plain hyperbolic. Steps toward socialism sure, but we're not talking about comrade level stuff.
nradov 6y ago
Which Scandinavian countries are socialist? The workers don't own the means of production. In general the Scandinavian countries are capitalist with strong safety nets.
- ardy42 6y ago
  > Which Scandinavian countries are socialist? The workers don't own the means of production. In general the Scandinavian countries are capitalist with strong safety nets. That's what we're calling socialism nowadays (e.g. pretty much anything that's not laissez faire capitalism). That mushiness is what leads some people to think they can condemn social democracy with the example of Soviet central planning.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > That's what we're calling socialism nowadays It is (and even the more moderate forms found in other parts of the developed West including the US are) also what Karl Marx called “socialism”, though of a subtype (“bourgeois socialism”) of which he explicitly disapproved as doomed to reinforce and revert to, rather than defeat, the dominant system of his day which he labelled “capitalism”.

NoOneNew 6y ago

Also extremely high dependence on oil. They are also not as socialist as people imagine. I think it was Sweden that implemented a bunch of socialist laws in the 70s, their econ tanked and they back peddled on a lot of it. The myth they're still as socialist remains today. Check out Norway's expenditure on welfare programs. It's like 136m euro or something like that per year. I researched this a year or two ago. Then check out how much their state oil brings in. I want you to do it so you can see for yourself how much "norway hates fossil fuels and capitalism". Because without the free market on oil, there would be zero Norwegian welfare system. Yes, Americans call the Scandinavians socialists, the same way dry rub BBQ pit masters call BBQ sauces the devil's abomination to food. It's either anachronistic hyperbole or just plain hyperbolic. Steps toward socialism sure, but we're not talking about comrade level stuff.

nradov 6y ago

Which Scandinavian countries are socialist? The workers don't own the means of production. In general the Scandinavian countries are capitalist with strong safety nets.

ardy42 6y ago
> Which Scandinavian countries are socialist? The workers don't own the means of production. In general the Scandinavian countries are capitalist with strong safety nets. That's what we're calling socialism nowadays (e.g. pretty much anything that's not laissez faire capitalism). That mushiness is what leads some people to think they can condemn social democracy with the example of Soviet central planning.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > That's what we're calling socialism nowadays It is (and even the more moderate forms found in other parts of the developed West including the US are) also what Karl Marx called “socialism”, though of a subtype (“bourgeois socialism”) of which he explicitly disapproved as doomed to reinforce and revert to, rather than defeat, the dominant system of his day which he labelled “capitalism”.