15 ms·

January 1, 2021 is Public Domain Day: Works from 1925 are open to all

125 points by samizdis 6y ago

ab_testing 6y ago
Is Mickey Mouse in public domain yet?
- p49k 6y ago
  Mickey Mouse (specifically Steamboat Willie) will be in the public domain on Jan 1, 2024.
  - grawprog 6y ago
    So, I guess we can expect a new extension on copyright terms in the next 3 years.
  - darig 6y ago
    Wanna bet?
  - otagekki 6y ago
    That, unless Disney lobbies for copyright to be extended to 120 years.
    - mhh__ 6y ago
      Does Disney even use Mickey mouse anymore? I could see them wanting to control the brand to stop those torture porn for kids videos on YouTube
      - Sevrene 6y ago
        Mickey Mouse is massive. Mickey has been the face of Disney and is sold on and in many products each year. Kids know who he is and adults know who he is. He does seem antiquated now, especially to older adults but I don't see them getting rid of him anytime soon. Disney doesn't have many characters with that much lasting appeal between age demographics, it links the older generation of Disney with the new.
        ksaj 6y ago
        The version of Mickey Mouse that would become public domain in 2024 bears very little visual similarity to subsequent versions. Still recognizable, but definitely not the same. Only the initial works from that year will be public domain. You won't be able to recreate Disneyland with this public domain entrance.
      - acwan93 6y ago
        Disney has been removing its focus on Mickey Mouse over the years as (I speculate) it knows at some point the mouse will be part of public domain, so it's been going on an IP shopping spree for most of the 2010s. Mickey is still huge as the peer comment states. Mickey shaped beignets, Mickey hats, Mickey costumes, etc. Just that everything else grew up to have as much, if not more, brand equity than Mickey.
        Exmoor 6y ago
        Works featuring Mickey will be public domain, but they'll still have the trademark so it's not like everyone will suddenly be able to sell your own Mickey Mouse merchandise.
        pfranz 6y ago
        I can't remember the source (maybe just a pet theory) but I believe Disney stopped using Mickey because there was so much contention over "Mickey would never do that" among fans so he just became a mascot instead of having him be a character in a story...probably in the 80s-90s. Near the 2000s the recognizably of Mickey started dropping with young kids so they've put him in more stuff. He started "hosting" things like Mickey's Clubhouse, put him in games like Epic Mickey and Kingdom Hearts, they had a retro redesign about 10 years ago and have used him in a bunch of new stuff including a few theme park rides.
        Tarsul 6y ago
        naa, the reason mickey is not as public as he was when he came out is because he became boring and he was overtaken by donald etc. I've followed the game devolopement of Epic Mickey where Warren Specter (producer/director, also of deus ex-fame) had a lot to say about the history of mickey and his take was that in the beginning Mickey was very mischievous but somehow that changed over the years and he basically became boring and all the interesting traits - in the sense of storytelling or character development - where found in other characters (and once mickey had found his boring persona, writers weren't quite allowed to give him back his mischievousness). Mickey became nothing more than an icon.
      - pfranz 6y ago
        Disney Animation uses a Steamboat Willie clip as their logo. It's at the front of all of their movies. Technically, its branding and completely separate from copyright.
  - chrisco255 6y ago
    Does this mean that the Steamboat Willie depiction of Mickey can be used in the public domain? Or just that the movie is free to distribute after that time?
    - fao_ 6y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain
    - mromanuk 6y ago
      This article explains it thoroughly, Mickey Mouse is protected by copyright, but it also is protected by trademark, which doesn’t has a time limit. There is a comparison with a Peter Rabbit, which entered public domain in 1979 and Zorro. The corporation that owns the brand, successfully used trademark law to stop a third party. https://www.gandb.com/2019/08/steamboat-willie-mickey-mouse-copyrights-and-trademark-protection-part-iii-of-iii/ https://www.gandb.com/2019/08/steamboat-willie-mickey-mouse-...
      - fao_ 6y ago
        Ah, so yet another comment that could have been avoiding by reading the article and not just the headline? :) Remember when hacker news had people on it who did such things :) Because I don't :)
- randyrand 6y ago
  Is Mickey Mouse a copyright? I always figure it was a trademark. Its used as a logo.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
hertzrat 6y ago
There is a more complete list here for people who don’t use google books. It’s one of several volumes and it looks tricky to skim effectively https://archive.org/details/catalogofcopyrig221libr/page/750/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/catalogofcopyrig221libr/page/750...
Yaa101 6y ago
Important in 1925 was the start of electric recording, so the sound quality gained significantly compared to older works.
Exmoor 6y ago
I've continually been stunned that there seems to be no political support for shortening and simplifying copyright terms and increasing the public domain for the good of all. Europe used to have what I'd consider a pretty common sense general term (at least for music) of 50 years after release. But even they abandoned that for reasons I can't understand. Everyone benefits from the public domain, so how can laws limiting it drastically be passed with little resistance?
- triceratops 6y ago
  This is a pretty common phenomenon with laws that benefit a powerful minority but are largely opaque or obscure to the public at large. The minority lobbies for ever-more favorable laws for themselves, but there's no countering force; or if it is, it's not as strong. See also agricultural subsidies or fossil fuel subsidies.
  - chrismcb 6y ago
    If you have money, it is easier to lobby for something that will make you more money. If you have no money, it is more difficult to lobby to keep something free.
  - sagarm 6y ago
    Ethanol mandates are an excellent example. Completely stupid policy -- better to literally just pay farmers to do nothing -- but still, it lives on, because Iowa is the first state in the primaries.
    - RockIslandLine 6y ago
      Iowa may be an example of how ethanol is done wrong in practice, but I'm not sure your theory is so sound. Make ethanol from sugar cane, not corn. Louisiana should be the center of US ethanol production. Much higher EROEI.
- jumelles 6y ago
  And the US is an outlier in that work produced by the federal government is in the public domain. Not the case in Commonwealth countries, for example.
znpy 6y ago
I'm looking forward to have Mickey Mouse in public domain in 2024.
- wussboy 6y ago
  Don’t worry. Copyright will be extended before that happens. It always has. It always will.
- ksaj 6y ago
  With music, there are different time periods for the song and the performance, so for example, there are a few of Ella Fitzgerald songs that became public domain last year. However, the actual recordings are not necessarily public domain yet (some are, some aren't public domain simultaneously). The music is however, so you can do your own version of them if you want. My specific example might have flaws since I only chose Ella because it's the first example I remember from last year's public domain releases, but that was the gist of what I was reading about the issues with music ownership specifically. I suspect something similar will happen when it comes to characters like Mickey Mouse. And of course, in 2024 you would theoretically only have access to the first version of Mickey, which looks totally different than later iterations.
  - sbelskie 6y ago
    You get a similar thing with translations. Franz Kafka’s The Trial, for example, will become public domain next year in the original German, but most well regarded English translations will remain under copyright for decades.
- awalton 6y ago
  And then Tillis' (Disney) Historical Preservation Copyright Act of 2023 will make sure we won't see that in our lifetimes. (But seriously, just look at the absolute absurdity that Tillis is trying to push through right now as an example of how broken and backward copyright in this country is. If the companies keep getting their way, there will never be a such thing as a public domain going forward.)
- coliveira 6y ago
ignoramous 6y ago
A good time to remind everyone to dedicate works (they own) to the public domain or under a non-commerical license through Wikipedia Commons [0] or other such websites [1]. I wish Wikipedia had some form of collaboration with Google/Facebook (like Flickr once did) to let people dedicate frictionlessly their media work under CC-NC licenses since literally everyone with a phone can shoot decent enough media these days. There are several Wikipedia pages that are missing pictures but you'd find plenty on Google Maps (user uploaded) that you couldn't use freely. In India, all media work published before 60 years is in public domain (< 1960). Here's a nice overview of copyright laws of various countries relegating works to the public domain [2]. [0] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page [1] https://unsplash.com/ https://unsplash.com/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Public_domain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Public_domain
kasperni 6y ago
Copyright laws very widely around the world. So this is only related to the United States.

125 points by samizdis 6y ago

ab_testing 6y ago

Is Mickey Mouse in public domain yet?

p49k 6y ago
Mickey Mouse (specifically Steamboat Willie) will be in the public domain on Jan 1, 2024.
- grawprog 6y ago
  So, I guess we can expect a new extension on copyright terms in the next 3 years.
- darig 6y ago
  Wanna bet?
- otagekki 6y ago
  That, unless Disney lobbies for copyright to be extended to 120 years.
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    Does Disney even use Mickey mouse anymore? I could see them wanting to control the brand to stop those torture porn for kids videos on YouTube
    - Sevrene 6y ago
      Mickey Mouse is massive. Mickey has been the face of Disney and is sold on and in many products each year. Kids know who he is and adults know who he is. He does seem antiquated now, especially to older adults but I don't see them getting rid of him anytime soon. Disney doesn't have many characters with that much lasting appeal between age demographics, it links the older generation of Disney with the new.
      - ksaj 6y ago
        The version of Mickey Mouse that would become public domain in 2024 bears very little visual similarity to subsequent versions. Still recognizable, but definitely not the same. Only the initial works from that year will be public domain. You won't be able to recreate Disneyland with this public domain entrance.
    - acwan93 6y ago
      Disney has been removing its focus on Mickey Mouse over the years as (I speculate) it knows at some point the mouse will be part of public domain, so it's been going on an IP shopping spree for most of the 2010s. Mickey is still huge as the peer comment states. Mickey shaped beignets, Mickey hats, Mickey costumes, etc. Just that everything else grew up to have as much, if not more, brand equity than Mickey.
      - Exmoor 6y ago
        Works featuring Mickey will be public domain, but they'll still have the trademark so it's not like everyone will suddenly be able to sell your own Mickey Mouse merchandise.
      - pfranz 6y ago
        I can't remember the source (maybe just a pet theory) but I believe Disney stopped using Mickey because there was so much contention over "Mickey would never do that" among fans so he just became a mascot instead of having him be a character in a story...probably in the 80s-90s. Near the 2000s the recognizably of Mickey started dropping with young kids so they've put him in more stuff. He started "hosting" things like Mickey's Clubhouse, put him in games like Epic Mickey and Kingdom Hearts, they had a retro redesign about 10 years ago and have used him in a bunch of new stuff including a few theme park rides.
      - Tarsul 6y ago
        naa, the reason mickey is not as public as he was when he came out is because he became boring and he was overtaken by donald etc. I've followed the game devolopement of Epic Mickey where Warren Specter (producer/director, also of deus ex-fame) had a lot to say about the history of mickey and his take was that in the beginning Mickey was very mischievous but somehow that changed over the years and he basically became boring and all the interesting traits - in the sense of storytelling or character development - where found in other characters (and once mickey had found his boring persona, writers weren't quite allowed to give him back his mischievousness). Mickey became nothing more than an icon.
    - pfranz 6y ago
      Disney Animation uses a Steamboat Willie clip as their logo. It's at the front of all of their movies. Technically, its branding and completely separate from copyright.
- chrisco255 6y ago
  Does this mean that the Steamboat Willie depiction of Mickey can be used in the public domain? Or just that the movie is free to distribute after that time?
  - fao_ 6y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain
  - mromanuk 6y ago
    This article explains it thoroughly, Mickey Mouse is protected by copyright, but it also is protected by trademark, which doesn’t has a time limit. There is a comparison with a Peter Rabbit, which entered public domain in 1979 and Zorro. The corporation that owns the brand, successfully used trademark law to stop a third party. https://www.gandb.com/2019/08/steamboat-willie-mickey-mouse-copyrights-and-trademark-protection-part-iii-of-iii/ https://www.gandb.com/2019/08/steamboat-willie-mickey-mouse-...
    - fao_ 6y ago
      Ah, so yet another comment that could have been avoiding by reading the article and not just the headline? :) Remember when hacker news had people on it who did such things :) Because I don't :)
randyrand 6y ago
Is Mickey Mouse a copyright? I always figure it was a trademark. Its used as a logo.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

hertzrat 6y ago

There is a more complete list here for people who don’t use google books. It’s one of several volumes and it looks tricky to skim effectively https://archive.org/details/catalogofcopyrig221libr/page/750/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/catalogofcopyrig221libr/page/750...

Yaa101 6y ago

Important in 1925 was the start of electric recording, so the sound quality gained significantly compared to older works.

Exmoor 6y ago

I've continually been stunned that there seems to be no political support for shortening and simplifying copyright terms and increasing the public domain for the good of all. Europe used to have what I'd consider a pretty common sense general term (at least for music) of 50 years after release. But even they abandoned that for reasons I can't understand. Everyone benefits from the public domain, so how can laws limiting it drastically be passed with little resistance?

triceratops 6y ago
This is a pretty common phenomenon with laws that benefit a powerful minority but are largely opaque or obscure to the public at large. The minority lobbies for ever-more favorable laws for themselves, but there's no countering force; or if it is, it's not as strong. See also agricultural subsidies or fossil fuel subsidies.
- chrismcb 6y ago
  If you have money, it is easier to lobby for something that will make you more money. If you have no money, it is more difficult to lobby to keep something free.
- sagarm 6y ago
  Ethanol mandates are an excellent example. Completely stupid policy -- better to literally just pay farmers to do nothing -- but still, it lives on, because Iowa is the first state in the primaries.
  - RockIslandLine 6y ago
    Iowa may be an example of how ethanol is done wrong in practice, but I'm not sure your theory is so sound. Make ethanol from sugar cane, not corn. Louisiana should be the center of US ethanol production. Much higher EROEI.
jumelles 6y ago
And the US is an outlier in that work produced by the federal government is in the public domain. Not the case in Commonwealth countries, for example.

znpy 6y ago

I'm looking forward to have Mickey Mouse in public domain in 2024.

wussboy 6y ago
Don’t worry. Copyright will be extended before that happens. It always has. It always will.
ksaj 6y ago
With music, there are different time periods for the song and the performance, so for example, there are a few of Ella Fitzgerald songs that became public domain last year. However, the actual recordings are not necessarily public domain yet (some are, some aren't public domain simultaneously). The music is however, so you can do your own version of them if you want. My specific example might have flaws since I only chose Ella because it's the first example I remember from last year's public domain releases, but that was the gist of what I was reading about the issues with music ownership specifically. I suspect something similar will happen when it comes to characters like Mickey Mouse. And of course, in 2024 you would theoretically only have access to the first version of Mickey, which looks totally different than later iterations.
- sbelskie 6y ago
  You get a similar thing with translations. Franz Kafka’s The Trial, for example, will become public domain next year in the original German, but most well regarded English translations will remain under copyright for decades.
awalton 6y ago
And then Tillis' (Disney) Historical Preservation Copyright Act of 2023 will make sure we won't see that in our lifetimes. (But seriously, just look at the absolute absurdity that Tillis is trying to push through right now as an example of how broken and backward copyright in this country is. If the companies keep getting their way, there will never be a such thing as a public domain going forward.)
coliveira 6y ago

ignoramous 6y ago

A good time to remind everyone to dedicate works (they own) to the public domain or under a non-commerical license through Wikipedia Commons [0] or other such websites [1]. I wish Wikipedia had some form of collaboration with Google/Facebook (like Flickr once did) to let people dedicate frictionlessly their media work under CC-NC licenses since literally everyone with a phone can shoot decent enough media these days. There are several Wikipedia pages that are missing pictures but you'd find plenty on Google Maps (user uploaded) that you couldn't use freely. In India, all media work published before 60 years is in public domain (< 1960). Here's a nice overview of copyright laws of various countries relegating works to the public domain [2]. [0] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page [1] https://unsplash.com/ https://unsplash.com/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Public_domain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Public_domain

kasperni 6y ago