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I live in Lyon, France and we often have high air pollution warnings and you really can feel it in the air. During lockdown, back in April and May, there was a

I live in Lyon, France and we often have high air pollution warnings and you really can feel it in the air. During lockdown, back in April and May, there was a noticeable difference in the air quality. It felt different. When we went out for a walk you could also tell the difference in noise pollution from there being so few cars on the roads. It was lovely. There is a church nearby that we can sometimes hear when the bells ring on the hour at night but during lockdown we could hear them during the day. My wife commented back then how she knew when the area had "returned to normal" as she could no longer hear the church bells when she had lunch in the garden.

CydeWeys 6y ago
Paris, at least, is doing an amazing job of replacing motor vehicles on the streets with friendlier alternatives, with great results in terms of reduced air and noise pollution. Try to elect a mayor of Lyons who's like Annie Hidalgo?
- satysin 6y ago
  The traffic in and around Lyon is fucking terrible. They really need to do something to reduce how many cars are on the road. The thing is overall the metro is decent as is the bus service and they are always full yet there are still so many cars on the road I wonder where all the people come from tbh. There are also lots of alternative options available with Lime e-scooters and Vélo'v bikes all over the place but still what feels like a million cars! I used to live in London so a lot of traffic isn't new to me but during peak times Lyon is a nightmare so I just avoid it as much as possible.
  - yodsanklai 6y ago
    > I wonder where all the people come from tbh Public transportation, bikes, scooters are all good for people living in Lyon. I suppose the cars are people living or working outside Lyon.
- yodsanklai 6y ago
  > Try to elect a mayor of Lyons who's like Annie Hidalgo? New mayor of Lyon is a member of the Green party. There were a lot of ecologist mayors (a "green wave" according to the media) at the last municipal elections in France. It's a dividing issue. More and more people are concerned about environmental issues. But at the same time, there is a universal hate for ecologists.
  - CydeWeys 6y ago
    > But at the same time, there is a universal hate for ecologists. This doesn't seem to be true? Annie Hidalgo won re-election and has pretty decent popularity ratings. Maybe they're hated out in the countryside or whatever, but the actual citizens of the cities run by these "ecologist" mayors do seem to be generally happy with them. I really wish we had one here in NYC. Only 22% of households in Manhattan where I live even own cars, yet an ungodly amount of the total public space is given over to cars, including two whole lanes of free parking on most blocks. Meanwhile the sidewalks are narrow and often full of trash bags because we can't even put in dumpsters lest some sacred parking spots be removed, and delivery vehicles are constantly double-parked or blocking bike lanes since there's no delivery-only spots. I think the majority of people here would be in favor of a mayor that de-emphasized cars and got a lot of this traffic off our streets, thus making it more pleasant for people on foot.
scaladev 6y ago
I am not trying to undervalue your problems, but I suggest looking at some third world countries for some perspective. I live in one such place. In winter (which lasts for about 8-9 months each year) the air pollution is _horrifyingly_ bad: 250-300 µg/m³ of PM2.5 at day time, and 900-1500 µg/m³ each night. I am not bullshitting you, this is how we live. You can feel the taste of coal on tour tongue in a completely sealed room. And almost nobody gives a fuck — when you try to discuss it with someone, you either get a blank stare, or "stop exaggerating, it's no so bad" (by which they mean "you don't drop dead right away (unless you're asthmatic)".)
- another-dave 6y ago
  The air pollution is at such a high level that people are dying from it. I do count myself lucky that I'm not contending with levels in places like Delhi but personally, I don't want people to put it in perspective and conclude that comparatively it's not so bad.
  - auggierose 6y ago
    I don't think that is what he is saying. He is saying, no matter how bad things get, people will get used to it.
- spaetzleesser 6y ago
  I have visited Mumbai and now have co workers in New Delhi. I had to leave Mumbai after two days because I couldn't stand the air anymore. When I blew my nose it was just black stuff coming out and buy throat was constantly scratchy. And from what I hear it's even worse in New Delhi. I only hope that people will wake up soon and change.
  - triceratops 6y ago
    > and buy throat was constantly scratchy When you're so congested that you even sound congested when you type. (sorry...)
- lolbrels 6y ago
lmilcin 6y ago
Only minority of cars are responsible for majority of pollution. A single badly maintained diesel car produces as much pollution as thousands of legal new cars. Same goes for trucks -- the low in air pollution you felt was likely not due to less cars but less trucks (and possibly busses, depending on where in Europe you live)
- sjg007 6y ago
  While this is true, diesel alone is terrible. The UK should make diesel more expensive.
- btilly 6y ago
  I don't know why this correct comment got downvoted. A car without a catalytic converter generates as much toxic pollution as 100 new cars with catalytic converters. A car whose catalytic converter has broken and which has engine trouble produces even more. And diesel produces more than gas. (Though new vehicles of both types are about equal.) Thus a single badly maintained diesel car can produce as much pollution as thousands of legal new cars. Smog truly is a situation where a tiny majority of vehicles produce the vast majority of the problem.
  - lmilcin 6y ago
    I got used to downvotes. There is no rhyme and reason on HN or anywhere else for that matter. Sometimes I think people just downvote to avoid facing the reality. I understand it is not politically correct to say most cars are not the problem (or at least not the most of it). In ideal world we would not be driving petrol guzzlers but instead have cars that run on electricity from our own home solar panels. But the reality is that a well maintained car emits thousands times less harmful stuff than cars from couple decades ago. The new norms that automakers are facing are really crazy restrictive and sometimes hit the very limits of physics and thermodynamics. The problem is when people get around these rules, drive unmaintained cars, drive cars that are way larger and more powerful than is needed or cheat by removing converters and installing them only for inspection. Especially the last one. Here in Poland this is practically the norm and people treat this as part of life and feel proud they "saved". Then they complain we have bad air.

CydeWeys 6y ago

Paris, at least, is doing an amazing job of replacing motor vehicles on the streets with friendlier alternatives, with great results in terms of reduced air and noise pollution. Try to elect a mayor of Lyons who's like Annie Hidalgo?

satysin 6y ago
The traffic in and around Lyon is fucking terrible. They really need to do something to reduce how many cars are on the road. The thing is overall the metro is decent as is the bus service and they are always full yet there are still so many cars on the road I wonder where all the people come from tbh. There are also lots of alternative options available with Lime e-scooters and Vélo'v bikes all over the place but still what feels like a million cars! I used to live in London so a lot of traffic isn't new to me but during peak times Lyon is a nightmare so I just avoid it as much as possible.
- yodsanklai 6y ago
  > I wonder where all the people come from tbh Public transportation, bikes, scooters are all good for people living in Lyon. I suppose the cars are people living or working outside Lyon.
yodsanklai 6y ago
> Try to elect a mayor of Lyons who's like Annie Hidalgo? New mayor of Lyon is a member of the Green party. There were a lot of ecologist mayors (a "green wave" according to the media) at the last municipal elections in France. It's a dividing issue. More and more people are concerned about environmental issues. But at the same time, there is a universal hate for ecologists.
- CydeWeys 6y ago
  > But at the same time, there is a universal hate for ecologists. This doesn't seem to be true? Annie Hidalgo won re-election and has pretty decent popularity ratings. Maybe they're hated out in the countryside or whatever, but the actual citizens of the cities run by these "ecologist" mayors do seem to be generally happy with them. I really wish we had one here in NYC. Only 22% of households in Manhattan where I live even own cars, yet an ungodly amount of the total public space is given over to cars, including two whole lanes of free parking on most blocks. Meanwhile the sidewalks are narrow and often full of trash bags because we can't even put in dumpsters lest some sacred parking spots be removed, and delivery vehicles are constantly double-parked or blocking bike lanes since there's no delivery-only spots. I think the majority of people here would be in favor of a mayor that de-emphasized cars and got a lot of this traffic off our streets, thus making it more pleasant for people on foot.

scaladev 6y ago

I am not trying to undervalue your problems, but I suggest looking at some third world countries for some perspective. I live in one such place. In winter (which lasts for about 8-9 months each year) the air pollution is _horrifyingly_ bad: 250-300 µg/m³ of PM2.5 at day time, and 900-1500 µg/m³ each night. I am not bullshitting you, this is how we live. You can feel the taste of coal on tour tongue in a completely sealed room. And almost nobody gives a fuck — when you try to discuss it with someone, you either get a blank stare, or "stop exaggerating, it's no so bad" (by which they mean "you don't drop dead right away (unless you're asthmatic)".)

another-dave 6y ago
The air pollution is at such a high level that people are dying from it. I do count myself lucky that I'm not contending with levels in places like Delhi but personally, I don't want people to put it in perspective and conclude that comparatively it's not so bad.
- auggierose 6y ago
  I don't think that is what he is saying. He is saying, no matter how bad things get, people will get used to it.
spaetzleesser 6y ago
I have visited Mumbai and now have co workers in New Delhi. I had to leave Mumbai after two days because I couldn't stand the air anymore. When I blew my nose it was just black stuff coming out and buy throat was constantly scratchy. And from what I hear it's even worse in New Delhi. I only hope that people will wake up soon and change.
- triceratops 6y ago
  > and buy throat was constantly scratchy When you're so congested that you even sound congested when you type. (sorry...)
lolbrels 6y ago

lmilcin 6y ago

Only minority of cars are responsible for majority of pollution. A single badly maintained diesel car produces as much pollution as thousands of legal new cars. Same goes for trucks -- the low in air pollution you felt was likely not due to less cars but less trucks (and possibly busses, depending on where in Europe you live)

sjg007 6y ago
While this is true, diesel alone is terrible. The UK should make diesel more expensive.
btilly 6y ago
I don't know why this correct comment got downvoted. A car without a catalytic converter generates as much toxic pollution as 100 new cars with catalytic converters. A car whose catalytic converter has broken and which has engine trouble produces even more. And diesel produces more than gas. (Though new vehicles of both types are about equal.) Thus a single badly maintained diesel car can produce as much pollution as thousands of legal new cars. Smog truly is a situation where a tiny majority of vehicles produce the vast majority of the problem.
- lmilcin 6y ago
  I got used to downvotes. There is no rhyme and reason on HN or anywhere else for that matter. Sometimes I think people just downvote to avoid facing the reality. I understand it is not politically correct to say most cars are not the problem (or at least not the most of it). In ideal world we would not be driving petrol guzzlers but instead have cars that run on electricity from our own home solar panels. But the reality is that a well maintained car emits thousands times less harmful stuff than cars from couple decades ago. The new norms that automakers are facing are really crazy restrictive and sometimes hit the very limits of physics and thermodynamics. The problem is when people get around these rules, drive unmaintained cars, drive cars that are way larger and more powerful than is needed or cheat by removing converters and installing them only for inspection. Especially the last one. Here in Poland this is practically the norm and people treat this as part of life and feel proud they "saved". Then they complain we have bad air.