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Estimated 1.56B face masks will have entered oceans in 2020
- fxleach 6y agoand here I am wearing the same mask I got in April...
- 1-6 6y agoCame here to say the exact thing. This article could have been worded better. E.g. "Discarded Masks May Start Entering into the Ocean"
- bonoboTP 6y agoMany use those flimsy cheap ones that are only good for a day or two. Because they are lazy to remember where they put it,they just take a new one. Like plastic plates.
- abfan1127 6y agohonest question - which cities/states/countries dump trash in the ocean?
- hyko 6y agoSounds like a completely made up figure.
- bonoboTP 6y agoYeah but how do you make an article out of "many face masks will..."? Like what is many? Dozens or billions? 1.56 is for sure false precision though. I assume there can be easily an order of magnitude uncertainty in that.
- frankbreetz 6y ago>>The report used a global production estimate of 52 billion masks being manufactured in 2020, a conservative loss rate of 3%, and the average weight of 3 to 4 grams for a single-use polypropylene surgical face mask to arrive at the estimate. It sounds like and estimate
- eznzt 6y agoi.e. made up. A loss rate of 3% why?
- zamadatix 6y agoThe paper cites a study that estimates 3% of global annual plastic waste ends up in the ocean and goes with that figure. This seems to be much better researched than your reasoning it was simply made up.
- greenshackle2 6y agoI found no justification for the 3% figure in the actual report. EDIT: my bad, the justification is a 3% estimated rate for all plastics globally.
- spurgu 6y agoPeople throw away trash (empty soda bottles, candy wraps etc) a lot easier than they'd throw away a device meant to protect their (and others) health. The real number has to be waaay below 1%.
- roywiggins 6y agoSurgical masks are disposable for a reason, they eventually get dirty, damp, and smelly. They can't ordinarily be cleaned, so they go in the trash. It's not at all weird if a single-digit percentage point of a disposable item doesn't make it into a proper landfill.
- spurgu 6y agoAccording to the article: > They enter oceans when they are littered, when waste management systems are inadequate or non-existent, or when these systems become overwhelmed due to increased volumes of waste. I was arguing that because of the first reason (litter) face masks are thrown into nature way less compared to other plastics in general. It's unfortunately relatively common to just throw away plastic bottles after use, as well as when eating candy. Those are the two most common pieces of litter I see everywhere. Go have a look at a pile of litter somewhere and try to estimate the percentage of masks among the plastic. That was the point I was trying to make. For the two latter reasons (mismanagement of waste) the end result would probably be more or less the same regardless of the type. Ultimately the real percentage of facemasks depends on the ratio between these "means of loss". And even though from my (western) perspective trash doesn't end up in the sea when thrown away, there are countries like India and other developing or poor countries that might make the littering statistic insignificant. On the other hand they are also unlikely to use masks to the same extent as in the western world...
- josefresco 6y ago"The report used a global production estimate of 52 billion masks being manufactured in 2020, a conservative loss rate of 3%" However I didn't see a link to the report itself which prevents me from speaking on the methodology of the loss rate value.
- greenshackle2 6y agoThe report is available at the end of the page. It's some awful embedded PDF reader thing.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- thedudeabides5 6y agoImagine the archeologists in the year 100,000, sorting through rock samples and going "oh look, there's the mask pollution from the great 2020 pandemic"
- th0ma5 6y agoI think about this a lot, our footprint as seen by future anthropologists.
- thisisnico 6y agoIf we make it that far.
- maerF0x0 6y agoI've thought about it a little. If everything is digital and in deprecated formats then there could be a sort of "dark ages"... even without some kind of end of world scenario to wipe out the evidence. We could simply just forget how to access it. Eg: in yr 3030 will we still know how to open pdfs ,flash files, or say PS4 games?
- Cpoll 6y agoWe have a lot of documentation and clues, so it shouldn't be that bad. There are decades of rants about the shortcomings of the pdf format, at least :) Those formats are also more logical(ish) than human language, so reverse engineering them should be possible in some cases. Also, there will be plenty of 'rosetta stones' around: media that exists in both an obsolete format and a more recent, better understood one.
- maerF0x0 6y agoVery interesting points. Thanks for giving me food for thought
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- probably_wrong 6y agoWhenever I go outside and see >50% people wearing disposable masks I wonder... Why? Did they only find out about the pandemic right now and it caught them off-guard? I have had reusable masks since April. I assumed everyone was doing the same, but everytime I go outside I prove myself wrong. I don't get it.
- nickthemagicman 6y agoThe reason medical professionals wear disposable masks in clinics is because reusable masks don't work. Actual correct mask usage means changing masks numerous times a day.
- asutekku 6y agoThere's a slight difference on what is required by a medical professional and by someone just commuting. Sure, one could always do better, but reusable masks are adequate.
- nickthemagicman 6y agoMaybe adequate for applying a plague vector directly to your face, a plague vector that's been constantly potentially exposed to a virus that stays on surfaces for days. Sure they're adequate for that. There's a reason medical professionals change their PPE. Corona virus doesn't magically become less deadly or less contagious outside of medical institutions.
- aeturnum 6y agoYou are spreading false information. Reusable masks do "work." Masks lose effectiveness over time and should be changed regularly, but it is not true that "correct" usage involves changing them "numerous times a day." There are two major factors that, as I understand it, drive the use of disposable masks in clinical settings. First is that healthcare workers see many sick people a day and they are worried about surface transmission. This is the main reason why they need to change their masks so often. The rest of us, who are moving through the world without looking directly into the mouths of sick people, have fewer foreign moisture on our masks. The second is that masks do become less effective over time, but the relative import of mask effectiveness should be judged proportionally to risk of the situation. Again, clinical workers are in a higher risk situation, so they change masks more often. The utility for the general public is lower. Cloth masks were called into question early in the pandemic due to a 2015 study indicating they spread disease[1]. This was in a medical setting and, as I understand it (I am a layman) it was because of poor mask sanitation (i.e. using masks for many days without cleaning). My understanding is that using a cloth mask for a day is better than no mask. Of course it would be better to change it more often, but the relative risk is low. Since then we have done a number of studies on cloth masks in the population and those studies have shown that cloth masks are effective[2]. It is true that "better" masks protect better, but that protection is almost always trumped by compliance. The mask you will wear is 100% better than the mask you won't wear. So health experts have focused on that. The medical community has done a shit job of communicating this, but that's no reason to say things that don't seem to be true. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/ [2] https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-abou...
- frogpelt 6y agoThis is my favorite kind of headline. The kind that screams, "No matter what you do, it's wrong!"
- kgin 6y agoEverything in life is an optimization exercise.
- remote_phone 6y ago“Burying COVID victims accounted for an increase in home prices due to less land!” “Cremating COVID victims increased global temperatures by 0.2C”
- DoreenMichele 6y agoAll "news" is bad news. I recommend not reading it most of the time. Better to read research papers and raw stats somewhere than commercial "news," in most cases.
- xenocratus 6y agoBut this assumes some level of knowledge/understanding of the subject at hand. If I read research papers about Covid (assuming I have the time) I doubt I'd be able to follow the arguments or understand the nuances of conclusions, caveats and so on... Time is also a problem as I mentioned above. This approach essentially duplicates the effort needed to analyse and distill the research. To me it kind of reads as "all documentation is bad documentation, just read the code".
- DoreenMichele 6y agoNot all articles that digest the information some are equally bad about making "all news bad news" for the sake of being an attention whore. "Duplicating" effort to do your own analysis is better than drinking the koolaid on shitty ideas that will royally fuck you over if you believe them and then someday having to deprogram yourself from their shitty ideas if you actually want your life to work. Current research on Covid is pretty preliminary. Most of what's being said is sort of speculative to some degree. We mostly aren't getting solid conclusions out of it, which is part of why people are still scared of it and the pandemic rages on. If we actually knew what the hell was going on and how to fix it, we would have put a stop to the pandemic already, just as we put out the oil well fires in just six months instead of taking the predicted years to solve it: Because oil well fires were pretty well understood, so it wasn't all that hard to invent new solutions when we had motive to. The world rapidly forgot that it was honestly and sincerely in a not click-bait fashion predicted to be a global environmental disaster. We just took it for granted when it got fixed and found some new "news" to bellyache about. I'm a former homemaker. I get really tired of people simultaneously dismissing me as an idiot who knows nothing because I chose to be a full-time wife and mom for some years and also telling me my solutions are out of reach for ordinary people because that requires more brains than they have.
- hikerclimb 6y agoGood.
- Bakary 6y agoAre there any companies trying to tackle the problem of trash in the oceans?
- comeondude 6y agohttps://theoceancleanup.com/about/ https://theoceancleanup.com/about/
- f311a 6y agoI lost all faith in humanity in 2020. I still can't believe people can be that stupid. We won't be able to safe ecology when people can't follow simple rules.
- HenryKissinger 6y agoIf people can't follow simple rules, then the state must force them to, under threat of fines, arrest, and prison time.
- alexilliamson 6y agoCan't say I agree, but it's cool to see Kissinger commenting on HN. Welcome!
- selestify 6y agoNot the real Kissinger unfortunately
- f311a 6y agoI doubt the whole planet can cooperate on that.
- core-questions 6y agoCool totalitarian liberalism, bro! Will you pay the security staff who enforce this more than minimum wage?
- worker767424 6y agoSingapore is a lovely city.
- odiroot 6y agoIt's indeed. They nearly solved the problem of tragedy of the commons.
- Spivak 6y ago
- akarma 6y agoOn the note of disposing properly: To protect wildlife, it's been recommended by wildlife nonprofits to snip the straps of your face masks before disposing, to minimize the potential for it to harm an animal. [1] https://www.heart.co.uk/lifestyle/rspca-warn-face-masks-wildlife/ https://www.heart.co.uk/lifestyle/rspca-warn-face-masks-wild...
- dwaltrip 6y agoIf I place an item into a trash bin, what is the likelihood that it comes into contact with wildlife?
- hackily 6y agoMany things could happen to the mask, even if you disposed of it in a proper location. The trash bin could be tipped over or rummaged in by wildlife, for instance. When the trash collector comes, the trash bag could rip and the contents spill out. Strong winds might cause small and light objects like masks to fly out.
- DoreenMichele 6y agoMaybe the takeaway we should try to get out of this is that, with so many people in the world, behavioral solutions -- like social distancing -- are overall superior to thing-based solutions (like masks). I tried to start a blog about this idea. I probably tried to start more than one. But with the hysteria in the air, I felt like I was going to attract a lynch mob for trying to critique the practice of turning to masks instead of looking for something better than masks as The Answer. So that idea of mine never really went anywhere.
- remote_phone 6y agoPeople who say that masks aren’t the answer frankly mystify me. If you were to tell a child “there is a disease that is spread from our breath. What do you think a good solution would be?” I would be dollars to donuts that their answer would be “what about a mask?” The answer is so obvious that even a child could come up with it. And it takes an adult to convince themselves otherwise. Even science says that masks are effective.
- DoreenMichele 6y agoI live with a serious, incurable respiratory condition. I have many years of experience of managing it by first and foremost not exposing myself to germs rather than cavalierly exposing myself and hoping a little cloth over my face will somehow fix it. But based on this comment and all the downvotes, it seems the decision to not pursue a blog in earnest promoting the idea "That maybe we can find a better-er answer" was the correct decision as a means to protect myself from people who don't want a better answer, they just want a dog to kick. I'm trying to say something like "Instead of promoting condoms and prophylactic drugs for HIV and other diseases while saying casual sex is fine, we could suggest (alternatives like) celibacy and monogamy as better solutions." But I imagine that would also be just as hated on. Can't tell anyone "Maybe keeping it in your pants sometimes when not doing so could kill you is a better answer." Edit: TLDR: Maybe adults should aspire to more sophisticated answers than ones even a five year old could come up with rather than attacking other adults as idiots for (supposedly) "not seeing something so obvious even a child could dream it up as a solution."
- platty 6y agoWhy are so many people swimming with them on?
- pupppet 6y agoWhich countries are still dumping their garbage in the ocean?
- jasonv 6y agoI don't know about the estimates, but as an avid hiker/runner, everywhere I go.. on any trail, I'll see more then a few masks lying on the ground. In every parking lot, there are masks lying about. People are definitely losing/tossing masks, and not all of them are going to get swept up by cleaning functions in commercial areas.
- ogre_codes 6y agoYep, it's pretty frustrating, I see them outdoors all the time. Not quite as frustrating as people who fill doggie bags then leave them on the side of the trap for the crap fairies to pick up. Easy come/ easy go.
- spoonjim 6y agoI've lost a lot of masks and it's not because I'm intentionally littering. I just get home and find that I don't have it anymore. Perhaps the shape of it makes it work out of a pocket easily?
- napier 6y agoIt’s surprising that after a year, people still haven’t figured out that reusable elastomer respirators with long life replaceable filter cartridges and >99% small particle filtration effectiveness are the best option from the perspectives of safety, overall cost and sustainability. I’ve been using the same pre pandemic 3M P100 industrial respirator with a retrofitted exhalation valve filter for months. It fits with a perfect seal and doesn’t get uncomfortable or warm during extended wear. Hopefully public health experts and governments will back consumer friendly, low-profile reusable respirator designs. There’s no reasonable reason for there to be a shortage at this point, after all this time, and even sending a few to every household with a link to an instructional video would cost a tiny fraction of the past and future direct and indirect economic consequences stemming from lack of optimal PPE for the general public and essential workers alike. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
- justQandA 6y agoAny reason why you went with the "P"100 (resistant to oils) instead of the regular "N"100?
- mcbuilder 6y agoP100 is the common designation in most uses you saw pre-pandemic, i.e. Asbestos removal, and the GP is referring to a legacy mask.
- napier 6y agoSeems like there’s no trade off to over-engineering health and safety in the context. N100 would be adequate but the P100 additionally provides a broader spectrum of air pollution exposure reduction which in the context of infection control helps protect the mucosal barriers from damage and preserves immune fitness, preventing T-cell depletion caused by inhalation of vehicular pollution and industrial/commercial combustion emissions, smoke, and so on.
- computerphage 6y agoP100 is much easier to find than N100
- hodder 6y agoThe big problem with the masks is, while many people will pick up litter, masks seem extra dirty like a used condom. People aren't likely to pick them up.
- NotChina 6y agoAnd even more gloves. We see them go out the Goldengate much more often than masks.
- musicale 6y agoWhat seems to be lacking in many articles of this type is a detailed explanation of the exact paths plastic takes to get into the ocean. Some paths I've heard of include: ships dumping waste directly into the ocean; landfills that are improperly sealed; waste blown and/or spilled out of out of open containers, trucks, and barges; waste blown or washed (from where?) into storm drains and rivers; etc.. Moreover, most of the great pacific garbage patch apparently consists of fishing nets. It seems like tracking the waste flow and disrupting some of those paths might be a good idea.