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I'll dare to ask this, but what defines a "journalist" in the data points here? The Clark Kent types are the only ones I really understand that can live under t
by BLO716 6y ago
I'll dare to ask this, but what defines a "journalist" in the data points here? The Clark Kent types are the only ones I really understand that can live under that title - but with the advent of syndication and micro-journalism (to use a term I just made up) for regional markets that have no real local presence of classic journalism, interested to know what it means now.
Here in Buffalo, could go many directions.
- tppiotrowski 6y ago“While we recognize the importance and the rights of the private citizen who snaps a photo or video of an arrest, this site will only cover individuals who self-identify as journalists and have some track record of journalistic work.“ Looks like you’d have to produce some journalistic work in the past. Unclear if that’s a blog or having your worked printed in a major publication.
- nickff 6y agoIt's a completely circular definition (as far as I can see).
- Throwaway1771 6y agoDefining now from In the past? Don't think that's necessarily circular.
- phalangion 6y agoI think it's more of a "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck." If you call yourself a journalist and have a record of reporting on things, then by this definition you are one. But you can't decide you are a persecuted journalist because you got arrested.
- nickff 6y agoSure, but at some point you have to define how a duck walks and how it quacks!
- pdkl95 6y agoYou only have to define the behavior: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_typing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_typing A journalist is someone that does journalism, just like a runner is someone that runs. The behavior "doing journalism" is simply reporting on something to an audience.
- esyir 6y agoThen we're all journalists here for commenting to a global audience.
- hutzlibu 6y agoSure, but at some point, you have to start by defining "sure".
- malwarebytess 6y agoI've thought that there was nothing special about journalists such that you required a rigorous definition. Journalists shouldn't have more power than citizens, journalists are citizens that choose to exercise their civil rights to bring information to the public.
- pyronik19 6y agoAnd this is the reason why BLM where vests that say press but then those same people are attacking police. They want to abuse the special privileges the press get.
- joshuamorton 6y agoThe press doesn't get any special privileges. The law doesn't make a distinction between press and not press. Certain organizations may get special privileges (press passes), but there's nothing legally binding about them. S citizen journalist is still a journalist under the law.
- tines 6y agoHow’s that? Seems like it’s just saying “we’re not going to treat you like a journalist if you don’t claim to be one, and you can’t claim to be one without having done any work before.”
- nickff 6y ago>"this site will only cover individuals who self-identify as journalists and have some track record of journalistic work" They're saying that they use journalistic work as a standard of who's a journalist... that's circular.
- iNate2000 6y agoHow else would you define who is a journalist? How can one be a journalist without doing journalistic work? Are you looking for a definition of "journalism"?
- Bjartr 6y agoWhere "journalistic work" means "has published an article or video that at least purports to be reporting facts, or something equivalent to that". If you claim to be a journalist, but can't point to something you've published, then you're not included. If you claim to be a journalist, and can go "here's three articles I published in a local newspaper (for example)", then you're included.
- chrisseaton 6y agoSo how can you be a journalist in order to write your first articles if you're not allowed to be a journalist until you've written your first articles?
- joshuamorton 6y agoThe point is that this particular site, which reports on police violence against journalists, is being somewhat conservative in how they define journalist. That seems fine.
- giantrobot 6y agoIf I share something newsworthy on Twitter or YouTube, I shared something. I'm not a journalist. If I share something and add context and get perspectives other than my own I performed the work of a journalist. If I do this with some regularity I am a journalist, an amateur journalist but a journalist. One of the key points of journalism is sourcing. You'll notice professional journalists, even in the middle of a war zone or natural disaster, will do interviews and try to get a larger context of events. They do this even when they're literally in the middle of an event and documented it themselves. Anyone that went through journalism school is taught just because they see a thing it doesn't necessarily mean they know or understand what they saw. Their eye witness account is as unreliable as anyone else's so they not only admit to that fact but actively try to get other accounts to find all the common elements and context.
- golemotron 6y agoJournalism was a historical anomaly based on scarcity of distribution mechanisms. It was only professionalized for a short period of time in human history.
- shadowgovt 6y agoIn general, US law makes little distinction, and with good reason---the easiest way to curtail freedom of the press would be to give government the authority to declare some citizen's aren't really press.
- lawnchair_larry 6y agoMost of them aren’t though. Portland has a ton of antifa kids running around with “press” signage who are also help organizing things, passing intel, or blatantly assaulting cops. Do that a couple times and “PRESS” means nothing. You should be upset with the rioters, not their victims.
- shadowgovt 6y agoSome of the rioters are victims, so I'll be upset with all kinds of people. In general, it's somewhat irrelevant whether someone declares themselves to be press because there are scant laws that declare the press is allowed to do X while a normal citizen can't. The "PRESS" signage should, in theory, be a useful signal to law enforcement that someone isn't there to make a disturbance (this, of course, breaks down if rioters mis-apply the label, but the end result is they endanger the press more than benefit themselves, since the cops can arrest a person breaking the law whether or not they have a particular symbol on their uniform).
- daveslash 6y agoRegarding "be a useful signal to law enforcement that someone isn't there to make a disturbance , and also regarding the notion that anyone could slap a press sign on themselves... seems apparent that, to a certain extent, there's an amount of civilization's underpinnings assume well-intent.
- j_walter 6y agoLiving near Portland I would say that anyone that puts "PRESS" on their shirt with tape defines themselves as a journalist...or even just someone holding a phone or camera. Same as those medics with a red cross out of tape. There have also been many examples of those 2 groups of people engaging in the violence that seem to think of themselves as immune to police orders because of it. Unfortunately the videos and pictures of these examples of people hiding behind a designation are ignored by the MSM and are only found by being at the protests, looking at raw video or following ultra-conservative people like Andy Ngo. This report also doesn't say why journalists were arrested. Many reports show that they were not following police orders to clear an area that has been designated a riot...and simply being part of the press doesn't give you the right to ignore police orders and if the police have to resort to non-lethal force in response to being attacked then being in the area leaves you vulnerable to the same non-lethal force. Police don't have the time to check everyone's credentials at 1AM while having lasers and fireworks thrown at them when trying to clear out an area. I dislike the police...but I also feel like they were not treated fairly in 2020, especially in places like Portland.
- lawnchair_larry 6y agoI’ve personally seen this repeatedly, and people have their heads so far in the ideological sand that they downvote you for some reason. It’s true, “independent journalists” wearing PRESS are basically an in-joke in the PNW. If there is one thing they are great at, it’s propaganda. They somehow managed to convince the rest of the country that they’re the good guys and the good guys are violent racists. Nothing could be further from the truth.