5 ms·

In what universe is Apple (a private company) responsible for the growth of the Web as an app platform? (which was not a design consideration when the web was i

by bzzzt 6y ago

In what universe is Apple (a private company) responsible for the growth of the Web as an app platform? (which was not a design consideration when the web was invented). And who could make a sincere argument of being damaged by Apple not caring enough? Is it Apple's responsibility to make your life easier? In that case I've got a long list of companies to sue...

Daishiman 6y ago
Apple has deliberately not fixed rendering inconsistencies in Safari when every other browser works more or less ina standardized manner. Most frontend devs that I know making PWAs complain endlessly about the number of exceptions and workarounds for Safari, and indeed it does slow down development and ends up being a justification for contemplating dedicated mobile apps.
agust 6y ago
The problem is not that Apple doesn't care enough about the Web. If they don't want to add features to Webkit, that's fine. The problem is that they prevent other browsers to add these features, because they prevent them from using their browser engines. That way, they prevent these browsers to really compete with theirs (Safari). Because if we could run the real Chrome on iOS, with all the APIs it supports, it's obvious everyone would ditch Safari straight away. And more importantly, that way they prevent Web apps from competing with native apps. Because obviously, who would use a Web app which can't even send push notifications instead of a native app with all the native APIs it has access to? So the problem is not Apple not caring enough about the Web. The problem is Apple having anti-competitive behaviour regarding Web browsers and application platforms on iOS.
- tannhaeuser 6y ago
  It's true that Apple outright bans apps that themselves could be vectors for platforms such as Flash back in its day. Today's "browsers" with their ever-increasing scope surely fit that criterion. I'm not defending Apple, but the idea that the web is an "open" platform (when it's overwhelmingly just Chrome) should not be used as an argument here, when Google employs just other anti-competitive tactics.
- radicalbyte 6y ago
  It's not just not caring about the web - they have a very strong financial incentive to kill the web as a viable platform for applications, games etc.
- dmitriid 6y ago
  > Because if we could run the real Chrome on iOS You'd be running features that both Mozilla and Safari consider harmful and will not implement.
  - agust 6y ago
    Well, that would be my problem, as it is when I'm running (the real) Chrome on macOS, Android, Windows or Linux. And if I'm not happy with that, maybe I'll switch to Firefox, which doesn't support them while not holding the Web back on many other features and with many unfixed bugs for years, like Apple does with Safari. That's the advantage of competition, if you're not happy with a product, you can use another one instead.
whimsicalism 6y ago
I'm going to assume you are non-technical, because you are utterly missing the point of the GP. Apple doesn't have to do anything, they just have to stop blocking others from doing anything.
- toiletfuneral 6y ago
  Ok but do you have any idea how different it would be required to QA for 3rd party runtimes on an integrated OS framework every 12 months? I'm going to assume you are non technical because iOS supporting Chrome or Flash or Have or anything else would be a nightmare for my mom just trying to open a webpage.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

by bzzzt 6y ago

Daishiman 6y ago

Apple has deliberately not fixed rendering inconsistencies in Safari when every other browser works more or less ina standardized manner. Most frontend devs that I know making PWAs complain endlessly about the number of exceptions and workarounds for Safari, and indeed it does slow down development and ends up being a justification for contemplating dedicated mobile apps.

agust 6y ago

The problem is not that Apple doesn't care enough about the Web. If they don't want to add features to Webkit, that's fine. The problem is that they prevent other browsers to add these features, because they prevent them from using their browser engines. That way, they prevent these browsers to really compete with theirs (Safari). Because if we could run the real Chrome on iOS, with all the APIs it supports, it's obvious everyone would ditch Safari straight away. And more importantly, that way they prevent Web apps from competing with native apps. Because obviously, who would use a Web app which can't even send push notifications instead of a native app with all the native APIs it has access to? So the problem is not Apple not caring enough about the Web. The problem is Apple having anti-competitive behaviour regarding Web browsers and application platforms on iOS.

tannhaeuser 6y ago
It's true that Apple outright bans apps that themselves could be vectors for platforms such as Flash back in its day. Today's "browsers" with their ever-increasing scope surely fit that criterion. I'm not defending Apple, but the idea that the web is an "open" platform (when it's overwhelmingly just Chrome) should not be used as an argument here, when Google employs just other anti-competitive tactics.
radicalbyte 6y ago
It's not just not caring about the web - they have a very strong financial incentive to kill the web as a viable platform for applications, games etc.
dmitriid 6y ago
> Because if we could run the real Chrome on iOS You'd be running features that both Mozilla and Safari consider harmful and will not implement.
- agust 6y ago
  Well, that would be my problem, as it is when I'm running (the real) Chrome on macOS, Android, Windows or Linux. And if I'm not happy with that, maybe I'll switch to Firefox, which doesn't support them while not holding the Web back on many other features and with many unfixed bugs for years, like Apple does with Safari. That's the advantage of competition, if you're not happy with a product, you can use another one instead.

whimsicalism 6y ago

I'm going to assume you are non-technical, because you are utterly missing the point of the GP. Apple doesn't have to do anything, they just have to stop blocking others from doing anything.

toiletfuneral 6y ago
Ok but do you have any idea how different it would be required to QA for 3rd party runtimes on an integrated OS framework every 12 months? I'm going to assume you are non technical because iOS supporting Chrome or Flash or Have or anything else would be a nightmare for my mom just trying to open a webpage.

deleted 6y ago

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