11 ms·
Saudi Arabia applied for diplomatic immunity for ten security guards in Norway
- runawaybottle 6y agoI wonder if we’ll ever get to a point where a non-western autocratic government will carry out a hit job in a western country. Russia sort of does it with the poisoning, but we’d really see a true shift in power when the mafia does it in broad daylight similar to the Khashoggi situation. The short list is China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Russia.
- lexs 6y agoSelimchan Changoschwili was shot in broad day light in Berlin Tiergarten, allegedly by russian agencies.
- jeltz 6y agoDoes Isreal count? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair
- jacquesm 6y agoThe really disgusting thing about that one is that Israel named a square after one of the killers.
- fogihujy 6y agoI'd be surprised if it isn't fairly common, but that most such governments are competent enough to keep things discreet (somewhat anyway).
- tonyedgecombe 6y agoActually I think there are some good reasons not to engage in it. You certainly don't want to get into a tit for tat situation. Nor do you want to provoke the host country so much that they start piling on sanctions.
- fogihujy 6y agoDefinitely, but as mentioned in some sibling comments, some regimes simply don't care.
- tobylane 6y agoWhy doesn't poisoning count? There was a Homeland plot point about hacking a pacemaker, which I believe was based on fears about Cheney's pacemaker (or continious flow device). What we recognise as a hit job is too overt and we've likely missed the covert reality. Another way it might have passed us by if it was in a western country but not a western victim, eg Israel kills an Arab leader at a convention.
- rapnie 6y ago> There was a Homeland plot point about hacking a pacemaker There's also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnaby_Jack#Pacemakers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnaby_Jack#Pacemakers
- odiroot 6y agoYou missed North Korea.
- BelenusMordred 6y agoWas perhaps one of the most surreal assassinations ever: Exiled brother of a dictator, in an airport surrounded by people and well trained anti-terrorist police forces, killed with a bioweapon, a murderer who thought she was on a Japanese reality TV show, wearing a tshirt saying "LOL" rubbing nerve agent into his eyes and running away with little to no consequence. She's walking free right now after a small sentence, enjoying life. None of the NK operatives have ever been identified.
- shanusmagnus 6y agoI'm dying to know more details -- I did a bit of googling and came up empty. Can you point me to where I could learn more?
- brohee 6y agoWikipedia is pretty up to date https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Kim_Jong-nam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Kim_Jong-nam
- yyyk 6y agoIran already does that: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/27/world/europe/iran-dissidents-bomb-assadi-belgium.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/27/world/europe/iran-disside...
- polytely 6y agoI know Iran is very likely responsible for 2 assassinations in the Netherlands,[0] so these things already happen. 0: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/08/iran-behind-two-assassinations-in-netherlands-minister https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/08/iran-behind-tw...
- brohee 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapour_Bakhtiar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapour_Bakhtiar in 1991 in Paris too...
- formerly_proven 6y agoActually a Russian operative shot and killed a man (Selimchan Changoschwili) in 2019 in Berlin in a park in broad daylight. (And that wasn't exactly the first time Chechens were murdered on the street by operatives in Europe).
- andyjohnson0 6y agoDulcie September, shot dead in broad daylight on a Paris street back in 1988, on the orders of the apartheid-era South African government. Fernando Pereira, murdered by the French DGSE when they bombed the Rainbow Warrior in Auckland in 1985. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dulcie_September#Death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dulcie_September#Death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior
- brohee 6y agoPereira is collateral damage, DGSE setup two bombs, one to make people evacuate the ship, one later to sink it. He went back to ship to retrieve a camera IIRC. So same are IRA phoning in before a car bomb explosion, some efforts to avoid loss of life in this case. The DGSE ancestor (SDECE) did murder some Algerian independence militants and associates in Europe during the late 50s early 60s tho. Some of them being European, like some German arms dealers (https://www.theafricareport.com/46441/algeria-the-dark-side-of-french-intelligence-services-during-the-war/ https://www.theafricareport.com/46441/algeria-the-dark-side-...)
- giantDinosaur 6y agoCollateral damage becomes a certainty when you start planting bombs everywhere. How could it not? One does not approve these missions thinking the chances are low (and I doubt one would care much if the civilians don't live anywhere that'll be able to kick up a fuss.)
- howlgarnish 6y agoIt's still different from a targeted assassination.
- fnord123 6y agoPeruse the incomplete list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinations >but we’d really see a true shift in power when the mafia does it in broad daylight similar to the Khashoggi situation. Why is this interesting? I personally find the assassinations of Fred Hampton and Huey Newton far more interesting. Also, the alleged David Kelly and Jeffrey Epstein are curious since they were officially rules as suicide but many people don't believe that line.
- runawaybottle 6y agoWhy is this interesting? I suppose geopolitically it’s a form of shit-testing. They are probing the limits. Any escalation to this inevitably will lead to war (if someone misjudges and goes after a US diplomat, or official). And I wonder if the west is close to a misstep. Right now the US is killing Iranian generals and scientists with impunity. All these things have limits.
- orwin 6y agoYes, Fred Hampton's assassination was really, really interesting for anybody who read about political philosophy, or anybody interested with the concept of class struggle. But i would be quite surprised if the hit on Huey was a government hit. His existence prevented another movement like the black panther to take place.
- fnord123 6y agoAIUI, Huey was murdered by someone in a crack gang. The CIA was fuelling the crack epidemic. I don't know how much tin foil it involves, but it seems plausible that the CIA used black on black crime to make sure no one cared about the murder. > His existence prevented another movement like the black panther to take place. I hadn't heard this, but I'm really not educated on the topic so that's not surprising.
- lmilcin 6y agoThere has already been numerous autocratic governments carrying out numerous hit jobs. The United States government has declined to pursue some of them even though the facts aren't disputed all that much.
- ku-man 6y agoThe US has a long story of killings, torture and kidnappings in Latin America.
- JacobiX 6y agoAs other pointed out, its a fairly common practice even for western democratic government, for example French DGSE (CIA equivalent) assassination operations are called "opération Homo" and some of them are well known.
- fmajid 6y agoOrlando Letelier, by the Chilean government, a car bomb in broad daylight in Washington, DC.
- Guthur 6y agoMany countries carry out extra-judicial killings not uncommon at all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Flavius https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Flavius
- chinathrow 6y ago> Saudi Arabia wanted to send ten men on an official assignment to Norway, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs confirms to Dagbladet. The ten men were all security guards, who were deployed to work at the Saudi Arabian embassy in Norway, according to Dagbladet’s sources. But Saudi Arabia wanted the security guards to be registered as diplomats in Norway. This would give them extended room for manoeuvring in Norway. This sounds like they're amateurs, sending 10 at once. Other nations do that probably one by one to stay under the radar.
- runarb 6y ago> This sounds like they're amateurs, sending 10 at once. > Other nations do that probably one by one to stay under the radar. It depends. For example Mossad allegedly used 26 persons when assassinating Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Mahmoud_Al-Mabhouh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Mahmoud_Al-Ma...
- bryanrasmussen 6y ago>The Dubai police found that 12 of the suspects used British passports, along with six Irish, four French, one German, and three Australian passports. Interpol and the Dubai police believed that the suspects stole the identities of real people, mostly Israeli dual citizens. It doesn't sound like they necessarily came in at the same time though.
- 6y ago
- TruthHurts44 6y agoTime to clamp down on the embassies. Nowadays you can do most of it online anyhow.
- lmilcin 6y agoI don't know which country you are from but I assume you would like to remove your embassies from all over the world? United States and many other western governments use their own embassy networks for clandestine operations and it is well established fact.
- jojobas 6y agoWould be a shame if everyone sent them all home?
- agustif 6y agoWith global covid it will only be responsible to do so... lol... Never gonna happen though
- TruthHurts44 6y agoExactly. Worldwide closure of embassies. Online services - visas etc. Might have the in-person admin work outsourced to 3rd party international corporation.
- literallycancer 6y agoRussians for example have embassies in Europe with staff count that clearly isn't required for normal operations and everyone knows that they are spies. I suppose it's easier to keep an eye on them when they are close by. On the other hand, nothing important would be lost if we just kicked them out.
- giantDinosaur 6y agoThey also do do normal diplomacy to some degree too, which is basically the obvious part of advancing one's interests - but a lot of stuff is definitely going to be easier to work out face to face.
- praptak 6y agoSo who do they want to kill now? I guess that Norway is not that popular among potential victims, so it should be easy to narrow down the list, no?
- h0l0cube 6y agoThe request was a few months prior to Khashoggi's murder, which I presume you're referencing to. > In the early summer of 2018, Norway received an unusual request from Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman's government.
- jackric 6y agoWhoever invented this "scroll a single sentence for suspense" thing can fuck off
- radoslawc 6y agoTrue. I miss the old web.
- deepstack 6y agowhy is this downvote! Bring back web that is just displaying info (e.g text, image, video) works in tor 'Secure' mode.
- rapsey 6y agoReader view fixes it.
- lotsofpulp 6y agoReader view in Safari fixed the website for me, but otherwise I would not have wasted my time.
- NullPrefix 6y agoClosing the tab fixed the website for me.
- mkl95 6y agoAfter Saudi Arabia's success in Turkey (Khashoggi), it's no surprise that are trying to replicate it in other countries. Edit: this incident happened a few months before Khashoggi's assassination per the article. It seems like the Khashoggi case is part of a bigger campaign.
- h0l0cube 6y agoThe article states the request to Norway happened in the early summer of 2018, presumably a few months before Khashoggi was murdered.
- pydry 6y agoApparently MBS complained to Trump that he didn't see what the big deal was with khashoggi's murder. In truth if it had been just another activist that wasn't a journalist at the Washington Post the US media probably would not have kicked up a fuss and we wouldn't even know his name.
- AndyMcConachie 6y agoAnd while we're talking about Turkey, they recently tried to assassinate an ethnically Kurdish member of the Austrian parliament. https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20201016-austria-on-guard-as-politician-claims-turkish-assassination-plot https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20201016-austria-on-gu... I'm glad to see European countries protecting their citizens from hit squads.
- netsharc 6y agoIn other places, Saudi embassies bail out sexual assault suspects and help them flee the country (my guess is "The police confiscated your passport? What name would you like on your new passport?") https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/sexual-assault-saudi-arabia-crime-1.4978773 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/sexual-assault-sa... https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2019/08/saudi-students-escaping-us-justice-amid-political-impasse-one-sexual-assault-survivor-speaks-out.html https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2019/08/saudi-students-escap...
- howlgarnish 6y agoFWIW, the US is also protecting the wife of a diplomat who drove on the wrong side of the road and killed a man. https://www.npr.org/2020/01/24/799143167/u-s-wont-hand-over-wife-of-american-diplomat-wanted-in-fatal-u-k-car-crash https://www.npr.org/2020/01/24/799143167/u-s-wont-hand-over-...
- paulryanrogers 6y agoWhataboutism doesn't add much. In both cases the sponsoring countries should not be protecting criminal activity.
- jules-jules 6y agoWife of a spook.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- akudha 6y agoThe level of arrogance and entitlement boggles my mind. But then, what do we expect from a government whose king travels with 500 tons of luggage and 1500 men, inconveniencing locals? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPOYV_O21GM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPOYV_O21GM
- thelittleone 6y agoWhen the Saudi King visited Indonesia, the locals where forced to cover non-muslim religious monuments along the path his entourage drove.
- Waterluvian 6y agoThe culture of the Saudi royal family feels like one of immaturity. It's like a bunch of young teenagers got a ton of resources and simply don't know how to channel them into anything meaningful.
- totalZero 6y agoIt's almost as though they found a bunch of liquid money in the ground.
- pydry 6y agoThis is why I think cheap, green energy is the best hope for democracy in the middle East. Once the black gold becomes "just another commodity" the West will not be bothered to protect these reprehensible human beings. There won't be an intense desire to keep a an ally on side who holds control over the flow of oil.
- akudha 6y agoThat is why they are using their enormous wealth investing across the world, buying properties etc (google how much oil money went into London olympics related real estate, for example). It would be nice to get rid of these shitty ruling class, but it would be very very difficult.
- jankor 6y agoI used to argue with Iyad on Minekey (a place to have a twitter like arguments before twitter) 10+ years ago. We disagreed frequently. I always learnt something from his arguments so I befriended him on fb. Never would have I imagined how quickly can his innocent activism escalate to have an actual hit team dispatched to have him silenced. I was the same, the only difference is my passport and government I criticize. Yet I live a normal life, never felt threatened or in danger. It made me realize how important and fragile are those values.
- fmajid 6y agoIf they feel entitled to murder a US person like Khashoggi (and Trump did shield them, so that is not an irrational calculation on their part), no one is safe, whatever their passport.
- blodkorv 6y agoIyad should be glad hes not living in Sweden. We would have just let the security team do whatever they felt like and then offer them some fika when finished.
- stevespang 6y agoFairly obvious the Saudi's dispatched a hit team to Norway to snuff Mr. Iyad el-Baghdadi. Saudis wanted the 10 man team to all have diplomatic immunity so they could get away with a murder.
- fmajid 6y agoIf the Saudis had not been so clumsy as to draw attention to the hit squad by asking for enhanced diplomatic status for them, they might well have succeeded in their mission.
- cryptica 6y agoWhat is the purpose of diplomatic immunity anyway? I thought everyone was supposed to be equal under the law. If people don't like the law of a specific country, they should just stay in their own countries.
- gambiting 6y agoI mean, it's not difficult. The people traditionally given diplomatic immunity are representatives of a country, and they have it so they can carry on their work. Diplomatic immunity is not absolute, and can be voided at any point, or the receiver can be announced as persona non Grata and expelled. Like, think how in the old times it was traditional that messangers carrying news from one kingdom to the other were untouchable, they had free passage and it was a very bad idea to harm them in any way. In more practical terms it's so that countries which aren't on best of terms don't use their diplomats as bargaining chips. It would be super easy for say Russia to arrest an American diplomat on fake charges and just keep them in jail(or you know, the other way around). Diplomatic immunity prevents that - it basically says that as long as you are on a diplomatic mission you are immune from prosecution in that country, and for good reason.
- cryptica 6y agoI don't see what the problem is if some foreign country captures a diplomat. We can just elect another diplomat in their place. There isn't enough turnover of diplomats anyway and they typically have too much power or they know too much stuff that their citizens don't know - It creates a massive disconnect between politicians and citizens. Maybe they should be less powerful and more disposable. If every country had highly disposable diplomats and government officials, everything would probably be much better for everyone and each country should mind its own business. No matter how you put it, diplomatic immunity disproves the idea that everyone is equal under the law. You can't have diplomatic immunity and also have everyone equal under the law. It's a logical contradiction. You have to choose one or the other or else it's impossible to know where to draw the line.
- gambiting 6y ago
- dandare 6y agoSaudi Arabia is the real Mordor. Let us not forget the women's rights activist Loujain al-Hathloul - known for protesting the ban on women driving - being inhumanely tortured, including sexual violence, now facing terrorism charges. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loujain_al-Hathloul https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loujain_al-Hathloul
- gdhehshdbd 6y agoWhat pisses me off is that as a liberal Muslim, we feel under constant attack from Saudi/wahabis. These Wahabi Muslims are everywhere in the U.S. and Europe. Liberals are going out of there way to defend Saudi men's right to force their wives and daughters wear hijab. But there is no attempt to expose what it is like to be liberal Muslim in the west.
- dsr_ 6y agoIt's not a liberal value to force people to wear hijab. It's a liberal value to accept that some people want to wear hijab, and other people want to walk around in speedos, and both of these are fine as long as it's their own choices. What is it like to be a liberal Muslim in the West? I'm not one, but I am a member of an ethnic minority with similar stereotyping. I have neighbors and coworkers who are Muslims and Hindus and frankly, the ones I'm least comfortable with are the right-wing Christians. Everybody else just wants to get along; I'm upset with the people who announce that anyone who isn't just like them should be coerced out.
- Layke1123 6y agoWhat you fail to take into account is following through on your logical conclusions. Women who choose to wear hijabs aren't without consequences even in western societies because they have social reprocusions levied against them if the don't wear hijabs. It isn't like they are truly free to make that decision.
- dsr_ 6y agoIf I wear a speedo on the train, then walk into the office like that, you can bet that I will also face social repercussions. Freedom isn't about being free of the consequences of what you're doing, it's about the law not forbidding you from doing it in the first place.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- everybodyknows 6y ago>According to the UN report, and a column written by Bezos' security chief, Gavin de Becker, Bezos was hacked via a message sent from bin Salman's personal mobile phone. Not to be forgotten.
- FreshFries 6y ago"There's no evidence the Saudis hacked Jeff Bezos's iPhone. This is the conclusion of the all the independent experts who have reviewed the public report behind the U.N.'s accusations. That report failed to find evidence proving the theory, but instead simply found unknown things it couldn't explain, which it pretended was evidence. This is a common flaw in such forensics reports. When there's evidence, it's usually found and reported. When there's no evidence, investigators keep looking. Todays devices are complex, so if you keep looking, you always find anomalies you can't explain. There's only two results from such investigations: proof of bad things or anomalies that suggest bad things. There's never any proof that no bad things exist (at least, not in my experience)." https://blog.erratasec.com/2020/01/theres-no-evidence-saudis-hacked-jeff.html#.X9nFxy1Y5TY https://blog.erratasec.com/2020/01/theres-no-evidence-saudis...
- nikolay 6y agoAnd can you believe they are our allies?! Thanks to this ally, we turned a blind eye to the atrocities in Yemen! We intervene in other countries when human rights are violated... except if it's Saudi Arabia! So shameful!