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I wonder if the people fleeing California will end up voting for the same bad policies that are the reason they had to leave in the first place. That is, do the

I wonder if the people fleeing California will end up voting for the same bad policies that are the reason they had to leave in the first place. That is, do they connect the bad policies to the bad outcomes, or will they still favor the bad policies? There is one major area for tech people where Texas may prove a nasty surprise to employees: non-compete agreements. For large employers this may be a bonus though as they can keep wages low by stifling competition. Texas does limit non-compete agreements to some degree, but it seems they can still be a serious problem.

kbenson 6y ago
Maybe that's a good policy that was voted for that they can vote for again in the new location?
shiftpgdn 6y ago
Texas doesn't have a full time legislature so unlike California the amount of damage they can do is limited.
- rwc 6y ago
  Even better than a part time legislature, in fact. Texas only meets for a few months every other year.
  - whatshisface 6y ago
    On top of that, a huge fraction of the laws are written directly in the constitution, meaning that without a supermajority it's impossible to change almost anything.
- octoberfranklin 6y ago
  I dearly love this aspect of Texas. It is such total genius. And the escapades with legislators fleeing the state in order to block legislation makes for hilarity.
- jartelt 6y ago
  But when they are in session, they focus on important issues like playing revisionist history with your children's school textbooks...
pb7 6y ago
Is there any evidence that the people moving are responsible for the bad policies? Something tells me the NIMBYs that bought their homes decades ago and pay $3.50 in annual property taxes aren't going anywhere.
- alexmingoia 6y ago
  What do low property taxes have to do with high rent and lack of housing? Higher property taxes would result in higher rent and property prices...
  - DontGiveTwoFlux 6y ago
    High taxes incentivizes more productive use of real estate, such as multi family housing.
    - alexmingoia 6y ago
      Only to the extent that it makes single family homes unaffordable. Lower taxes incentivize building any type of housing, and cheaper rent for multi-family buildings.
    - bcheung 6y ago
      High taxes are good because people will have less room to live? This doesn't sound like a good justification.
      - klipt 6y ago
        Most economists agree that a land value tax is economically the best kind of tax. Imagine property tax is 0. Why would anyone ever sell? All the land would effectively be owned by hereditary feudal lords. Texas has higher property taxes than California but more affordable housing. Makes you think.
        bcheung 6y ago
        Funny enough, I actually agree with this, at least from an economics perspective. I'd much rather get rid of the income tax and have higher property taxes. That seems much more efficient to me.
deleted 6y ago
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tesmar2 6y ago
I'd imagine the owners will, but who knows about the employees. Liberalization in general is happening through the government schools. Pull the kids out, teach them at home or put them in a private school you trust.
- ewmiller 6y ago
  “Liberalization” is a massive generalization and I don’t see what connection you’re making between public school curricula and reasons someone might move out of Silicon Valley. It seems a bit silly to do so. Besides high housing demand and concentrated wealth, what contributed to the way Silicon Valley is today that has anything to do with public schooling?
  - rriepe 6y ago
    Schools train people to believe the TV, and to think of the people who don't believe the TV as dangerous. It's terrifying.
  - tesmar2 6y ago
    I'm not talking about why someone might move out of Silicon Valley, but as a response to the gp, explaining that the policies aren't being imported from CA. They're being home grown, in TX, in the government schools. If the parents value fiscal conservatism and traditional values, they'll pull their kids out of government schools and teach them themselves. This will also strengthen the family bonds, weakening the power of the state to make such bad calls.
ewmiller 6y ago
What particular policies did people vote for that contributed to their reasons for fleeing?
- trident1000 6y ago
  The LA mayor is telling people to not walk outside because of covid. If thats not absurd big liberal govt policy idk what is. Who would want to live somewhere where the govt thinks they can do that. Your rights as a person dont vanish in a crisis. https://fortune.com/2020/12/03/los-angeles-new-lockdown-rules-walking-driving/ https://fortune.com/2020/12/03/los-angeles-new-lockdown-rule... dannyincolor - He issued an order. Its not an ask. This isnt a where you live thing, this is a govt overstepping their bounds thing. Id have no problem with asking.
  - njudah 6y ago
    The Attorney General of Texas filed a lawsuit claiming the results of election in four other states were invalid. If that isn't rejection of the constitution and democracy I don't know what is.
    - trident1000 6y ago
      Comparing directing citizens physical actions to some high level legal battle. Got it.
    - xyzzyz 6y ago
      They had a dispute, and filed a court case, which was dismissed. What’s undemocratic about that? If they ignored the court verdict, that would be rejection of constitution and of republican system of government, sure. However, addressing legal and constitutional complaints through justice system is as constitutional and small-r republican as one can get.
      - messick 6y ago
        I think the “please throw out the votes in other multiple states that aren’t Texas so Mr Trump makes all my outstanding indictments go away” part by the Texas AG was the undemocratic part.
bcheung 6y ago
They will probably favor them in the beginning but I think a lot of that comes from the SF bay area echo chamber. Getting exposure to different cultures will probably average things out more politically leading to greater acceptance and diversity of thought.
- JohnCohorn 6y ago
  Many of those people and companies are coming to Austin. Austin is already awash with leftist values and California transplants. The people moving here can probably stay in an echo chamber here as well.
- ProfessorLayton 6y ago
  It is worth noting that the Bay Area is impressively diverse already, especially when considering how remarkably not-diverse cities were not that long ago. Cities like San Leandro went from 99.3% white in the 60s to having no racial majority today. I'd argue that one should step out of their tech bubble and experience the awesome cultures that already exist within the Bay.
  - bordercases 6y ago
    It's diversity of the uninteresting sort. Ethnic diversity doesn't imply ideological diversity.
    - ProfessorLayton 6y ago
      The Bay Area is home to a lot of immigrants from all over the world, as well as first generation American citizens whom were raised by their immigrant parents. Is the implication here that they all have the same ideologies?
      - bordercases 6y ago
        They all moved to the Bay Area didn't they? And they left behind people that didn't. Given that they don't spend much time segregating themselves into Chinatowns and Little Italies one should expect some preference for the culture of the Bay Area to explain the selectivity and staying power, when other locations are just as prosperous (New York, Texas, Boston). An analogy from my own experience: in my youth I was raised in a third world country, but within a community of international expats who worked for the local NGO. They came from countries as diverse as America, Germany, India, China, and what is now South Sudan. What could this ethnic smorgasbord possibly have in common? Answer: a belief in, and commitment to, international cooperation in science. This ideology is what drove the composition of the community.
lavishlatern 6y ago
Alternatively, the influx of tech money greatly increases the cost of property in Texas. In turn, senior residents start to no longer be able to afford to keep up their property taxes. Eventually a proposition appears on the ballot to limit the growth of property taxes...
- chrisco255 6y ago
  There's a lot of land in Texas, and they're not opposed to building high rises.
  - MAGZine 6y ago
    Citation needed? In my experience, SFHowners who live in a primarily residential neighborhood generally don't want condos if they live in Texas or Maine or California.
    - wahern 6y ago
      While Houston doesn't have zoning use restrictions, apparently many neighborhoods have private land covenants that restrict redevelopment: https://kinder.rice.edu/urbanedge/2020/01/09/no-zoning-in-Houston-there-are-workarounds https://kinder.rice.edu/urbanedge/2020/01/09/no-zoning-in-Ho... So in practice large projects usually will only occur in less wealthy neighborhoods where residents aren't savvy enough to enforce restrictions, and patterns of development end up looking pretty much like most of California. I'm sure it's still much cheaper to build in Texas, though, because the real costs in California aren't the restrictions, per se, but the uncertainty and time delays. Time is the real budget killer, and a silent one that helps to hide the externalities that policies create.
    - octoberfranklin 6y ago
      > > There's a lot of land in Texas > Citation needed? Somebody buy this guy a map.
      - MAGZine 6y ago
ryankshaw 6y ago
could you give me like an eli5 explanation of what specific policies you are referring to? I ask this as a left leaning person living in a right leaning state. So from where I sit, I see some of the dumb things my right leaning politicians do but I would love to understand what specific policies people think are some of Califoria's dumbest.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  Right-wing people will just have vague criticisms about high taxes. The obvious low hanging bad-policy fruit in California is Prop 13 though.
  - Agathos 6y ago
    ...which was dreamed up and promoted by such right-wing people, back when they had influence in California.
    - dannyincolor 6y ago
      As were most laws that are now criticized. We actually have a huge amount of Conservatives in CA. It’s far from the leftist whatever-the-heck you probably hear. Make sure you can afford the few % more you’ll pay in taxes and you’ll be just fine! It was negligible compared to my Midwest home state’s taxes; I was genuinely surprised by that after hearing so much negativity about the place and it’s laws. Come visit sometime, there’s a place for everyone here and housing will snap back after our pandemic precautions phase out.
      - seattletech 6y ago
        Trump got more votes in California than in any other state including TX and FL
nodesocket 6y ago
I left downtown SF in 2018 for Nashville and couldn't be happier. I am fiscally conservative/libertarian so definitely did not align with the bay area politics and echo chamber. The last three years in Nashville have been some of my happiest, but also the most financially successful of my life. Just purchased a home here in Nashville that would be unobtanium in California. I made this point about not voting for the same policies that caused people to leave California in the Oracle exodus story and got downvoted to death.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- octoberfranklin 6y ago
  HN has a very anti-libertarian echo chamber. It's kinda sad.
thatguy0900 6y ago
At least the front page might stop constantly having posts ranting about Californian cities. Reading about Texas not being liberal enough instead will be a refreshing change of pace.
claudeganon 6y ago
I guess if they enshrine a landed aristocracy through locking in property taxes, that could happen, but I don’t know what other “bad regulations” CA has that would cause this. If we had a nationwide ban on noncompetes, that would be great for everyone.
pandaman 6y ago
This is a possibility, since an average Californian is far to the left of an average Texan and if we randomly picked few million Californians and transported them to Texas it would have indeed moved the voter base to the left. However, I've seen reports on the new voters in Texas voting to the right of the native Texans (e.g. from Ted Cruz's campaign, might not be a good source for HN, but there is no evidence of the opposite) and since majority of these are from California it could be that California expats in Texas are far to the right of the average Texan. It could be that more conservatives than liberals are escaping California or it could be that liberals prefer to move to other states (like Washington?) or a combination of the two.
bawolff 6y ago
If the policies were so bad, they probably wouldn't be there in the first place. If this is how to fail at policy making, more places should try failing.
NDizzle 6y ago
For me a very frustrating thing was trying to figure out where my tax money went in California. Roads suck. Public education sucks. Tent cities everywhere. Then COVID-19 hit and you could tell, early on, that it was going to be mismanaged, similar to our tax money. So glad I bailed back in May. No Texas for me. Arkansas instead! I think the last new tax I voted for was in 2004. Back when I was 25 and didn’t fully understand how terribly mismanaged the funds were.
- lern_too_spel 6y ago
  The California budget is public information. Proposition 13 means you as a new arrival were subsidizing property owners who were there before you, and the broken initiative process means that there's billions from the general fund tied up to pay bonds for pet projects of swindlers who are clever enough to put their projects on the ballot instead of trying to get them past the legislature.
  - jelliclesfarm 6y ago
    You make it sound like newcomers came and built a viable city for existing Californians. It’s not like California was a wasteland before ‘new comers’ arrived. ‘New comers’ have always been entering California. The new comers came because California already had an ecosystem and infrastructure in place built ready made for them to thrive. New comers are not subsidizing existing property owners. They ..and their children use the infrastructure already in place that is subsidized for them. People with children older than 18 or with no kids have no use for public schools. Since property taxes are being used to fund public education, it’s essentially everyone subsidizing public education. For all. And this includes renters, undocumented immigrants, legal immigrants, those who pay taxes and those who don’t. Everyone. That’s what’s free public education means. For everyone in CA as public school fund budget is redistributed to all counties in California and not just the zip code it’s collected from... Tweaking Prop 13 won’t miraculously get us better roads or infrastructure. Or affordable housing. It will only go to fix the gap of the unfunded pension liabilities of unionized teachers[1]. Wages account for 60-80% of school budgets. Public education accounts for 44% of state budget. Almost all of property taxes goes towards public education. [1] https://www.city-journal.org/html/worst-union-america-13470.html https://www.city-journal.org/html/worst-union-america-13470.... The Worst Union in America How the California Teachers Association betrayed the schools and crippled the state Further: + https://reason.com/2018/11/09/california-teachers-unions-oppose-paying/ https://reason.com/2018/11/09/california-teachers-unions-opp... California Teachers Unions Oppose Paying Teachers More Because It Would Introduce Too Much Competition Into Public Schools + https://fee.org/articles/teachers-unions-are-the-schools-run-for-them/ https://fee.org/articles/teachers-unions-are-the-schools-run... Teachers Unions: Are the Schools Run for Them? + http://laschoolreport.com/antonucci-california-teachers-association-pledges-support-for-prop-13-overhaul/ http://laschoolreport.com/antonucci-california-teachers-asso... Antonucci: California Teachers Association pledges support for Prop. 13 overhaul
KorematsuFred 6y ago
I am a libertarian and I have felt pretty miserable living in California. Some other people telling what I can or can not do for greater good and then forcing those things down my throat is what made my life miserable. The last straw off camels back was San Jose banning gas powered stoves. WTF really ? Lucky for me I was under contract for a new house before that. Now I have the house and its prices have gone up suddenly. I feel sorry for sods who will end up buying my house for 5% premium for the pleasure of owning a gas stove, the sort of thing that is kind of free almost everywhere else. Good luck saving the planet with these antics.
eplanit 6y ago
This is why I'm afraid for Texas. I'd hate to see it ruined.
majormajor 6y ago
> I wonder if the people fleeing California will end up voting for the same bad policies that are the reason they had to leave in the first place. That is, do they connect the bad policies to the bad outcomes, or will they still favor the bad policies? They are leaving because of high prices caused by factors that are just as present in cities in Texas. They're bringing their money and jobs with them, so they'll bring some of those higher prices too. It's supply and demand, not liberal or conservative policies. Texas conservative suburb-dwellers don't want higher density housing either. They especially don't want lower income folks near them! Look at how litle public transit exists, because such things would let the poor people get closer to their little burb. Why are so many people falling for this "hey, look, we have lower prices, therefore we have better policies" talking point? Been there, done that. Lower prices are because I wouldn't pay as much to live there, that's not higher desirability.
- Acrobatic_Road 6y ago
  California has its own slew of historical policies which have dramatically decreased housing supply. A guy in san francisco was denied a permit to convert his laundromat into apartments because the city planners determined it would cast a partial shadow on a nearby playground for god's sake. That was after he had to shell out $$$ to determine that his laundromat was not a historical site. In Palo Alto, not a single new house was built in the 1970s. >It's supply and demand, not liberal or conservative policies. Do you not understand policies influence supply and demand? What do you think happens to supply after zoning laws and rent control are passed?

kbenson 6y ago

Maybe that's a good policy that was voted for that they can vote for again in the new location?

shiftpgdn 6y ago

Texas doesn't have a full time legislature so unlike California the amount of damage they can do is limited.

rwc 6y ago
Even better than a part time legislature, in fact. Texas only meets for a few months every other year.
- whatshisface 6y ago
  On top of that, a huge fraction of the laws are written directly in the constitution, meaning that without a supermajority it's impossible to change almost anything.
octoberfranklin 6y ago
I dearly love this aspect of Texas. It is such total genius. And the escapades with legislators fleeing the state in order to block legislation makes for hilarity.
jartelt 6y ago
But when they are in session, they focus on important issues like playing revisionist history with your children's school textbooks...

pb7 6y ago

Is there any evidence that the people moving are responsible for the bad policies? Something tells me the NIMBYs that bought their homes decades ago and pay $3.50 in annual property taxes aren't going anywhere.

alexmingoia 6y ago
What do low property taxes have to do with high rent and lack of housing? Higher property taxes would result in higher rent and property prices...
- DontGiveTwoFlux 6y ago
  High taxes incentivizes more productive use of real estate, such as multi family housing.
  - alexmingoia 6y ago
    Only to the extent that it makes single family homes unaffordable. Lower taxes incentivize building any type of housing, and cheaper rent for multi-family buildings.
  - bcheung 6y ago
    High taxes are good because people will have less room to live? This doesn't sound like a good justification.
    - klipt 6y ago
      Most economists agree that a land value tax is economically the best kind of tax. Imagine property tax is 0. Why would anyone ever sell? All the land would effectively be owned by hereditary feudal lords. Texas has higher property taxes than California but more affordable housing. Makes you think.
      - bcheung 6y ago
        Funny enough, I actually agree with this, at least from an economics perspective. I'd much rather get rid of the income tax and have higher property taxes. That seems much more efficient to me.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

tesmar2 6y ago

I'd imagine the owners will, but who knows about the employees. Liberalization in general is happening through the government schools. Pull the kids out, teach them at home or put them in a private school you trust.

ewmiller 6y ago
“Liberalization” is a massive generalization and I don’t see what connection you’re making between public school curricula and reasons someone might move out of Silicon Valley. It seems a bit silly to do so. Besides high housing demand and concentrated wealth, what contributed to the way Silicon Valley is today that has anything to do with public schooling?
- rriepe 6y ago
  Schools train people to believe the TV, and to think of the people who don't believe the TV as dangerous. It's terrifying.
- tesmar2 6y ago
  I'm not talking about why someone might move out of Silicon Valley, but as a response to the gp, explaining that the policies aren't being imported from CA. They're being home grown, in TX, in the government schools. If the parents value fiscal conservatism and traditional values, they'll pull their kids out of government schools and teach them themselves. This will also strengthen the family bonds, weakening the power of the state to make such bad calls.

ewmiller 6y ago

What particular policies did people vote for that contributed to their reasons for fleeing?

trident1000 6y ago
The LA mayor is telling people to not walk outside because of covid. If thats not absurd big liberal govt policy idk what is. Who would want to live somewhere where the govt thinks they can do that. Your rights as a person dont vanish in a crisis. https://fortune.com/2020/12/03/los-angeles-new-lockdown-rules-walking-driving/ https://fortune.com/2020/12/03/los-angeles-new-lockdown-rule... dannyincolor - He issued an order. Its not an ask. This isnt a where you live thing, this is a govt overstepping their bounds thing. Id have no problem with asking.
- njudah 6y ago
  The Attorney General of Texas filed a lawsuit claiming the results of election in four other states were invalid. If that isn't rejection of the constitution and democracy I don't know what is.
  - trident1000 6y ago
    Comparing directing citizens physical actions to some high level legal battle. Got it.
  - xyzzyz 6y ago
    They had a dispute, and filed a court case, which was dismissed. What’s undemocratic about that? If they ignored the court verdict, that would be rejection of constitution and of republican system of government, sure. However, addressing legal and constitutional complaints through justice system is as constitutional and small-r republican as one can get.
    - messick 6y ago
      I think the “please throw out the votes in other multiple states that aren’t Texas so Mr Trump makes all my outstanding indictments go away” part by the Texas AG was the undemocratic part.

bcheung 6y ago

They will probably favor them in the beginning but I think a lot of that comes from the SF bay area echo chamber. Getting exposure to different cultures will probably average things out more politically leading to greater acceptance and diversity of thought.

JohnCohorn 6y ago
Many of those people and companies are coming to Austin. Austin is already awash with leftist values and California transplants. The people moving here can probably stay in an echo chamber here as well.
ProfessorLayton 6y ago
It is worth noting that the Bay Area is impressively diverse already, especially when considering how remarkably not-diverse cities were not that long ago. Cities like San Leandro went from 99.3% white in the 60s to having no racial majority today. I'd argue that one should step out of their tech bubble and experience the awesome cultures that already exist within the Bay.
- bordercases 6y ago
  It's diversity of the uninteresting sort. Ethnic diversity doesn't imply ideological diversity.
  - ProfessorLayton 6y ago
    The Bay Area is home to a lot of immigrants from all over the world, as well as first generation American citizens whom were raised by their immigrant parents. Is the implication here that they all have the same ideologies?
    - bordercases 6y ago
      They all moved to the Bay Area didn't they? And they left behind people that didn't. Given that they don't spend much time segregating themselves into Chinatowns and Little Italies one should expect some preference for the culture of the Bay Area to explain the selectivity and staying power, when other locations are just as prosperous (New York, Texas, Boston). An analogy from my own experience: in my youth I was raised in a third world country, but within a community of international expats who worked for the local NGO. They came from countries as diverse as America, Germany, India, China, and what is now South Sudan. What could this ethnic smorgasbord possibly have in common? Answer: a belief in, and commitment to, international cooperation in science. This ideology is what drove the composition of the community.

lavishlatern 6y ago

Alternatively, the influx of tech money greatly increases the cost of property in Texas. In turn, senior residents start to no longer be able to afford to keep up their property taxes. Eventually a proposition appears on the ballot to limit the growth of property taxes...

chrisco255 6y ago
There's a lot of land in Texas, and they're not opposed to building high rises.
- MAGZine 6y ago
  Citation needed? In my experience, SFHowners who live in a primarily residential neighborhood generally don't want condos if they live in Texas or Maine or California.
  - wahern 6y ago
    While Houston doesn't have zoning use restrictions, apparently many neighborhoods have private land covenants that restrict redevelopment: https://kinder.rice.edu/urbanedge/2020/01/09/no-zoning-in-Houston-there-are-workarounds https://kinder.rice.edu/urbanedge/2020/01/09/no-zoning-in-Ho... So in practice large projects usually will only occur in less wealthy neighborhoods where residents aren't savvy enough to enforce restrictions, and patterns of development end up looking pretty much like most of California. I'm sure it's still much cheaper to build in Texas, though, because the real costs in California aren't the restrictions, per se, but the uncertainty and time delays. Time is the real budget killer, and a silent one that helps to hide the externalities that policies create.
  - octoberfranklin 6y ago
    > > There's a lot of land in Texas > Citation needed? Somebody buy this guy a map.
    - MAGZine 6y ago

ryankshaw 6y ago

could you give me like an eli5 explanation of what specific policies you are referring to? I ask this as a left leaning person living in a right leaning state. So from where I sit, I see some of the dumb things my right leaning politicians do but I would love to understand what specific policies people think are some of Califoria's dumbest.

whimsicalism 6y ago
Right-wing people will just have vague criticisms about high taxes. The obvious low hanging bad-policy fruit in California is Prop 13 though.
- Agathos 6y ago
  ...which was dreamed up and promoted by such right-wing people, back when they had influence in California.
  - dannyincolor 6y ago
    As were most laws that are now criticized. We actually have a huge amount of Conservatives in CA. It’s far from the leftist whatever-the-heck you probably hear. Make sure you can afford the few % more you’ll pay in taxes and you’ll be just fine! It was negligible compared to my Midwest home state’s taxes; I was genuinely surprised by that after hearing so much negativity about the place and it’s laws. Come visit sometime, there’s a place for everyone here and housing will snap back after our pandemic precautions phase out.
    - seattletech 6y ago
      Trump got more votes in California than in any other state including TX and FL

nodesocket 6y ago

I left downtown SF in 2018 for Nashville and couldn't be happier. I am fiscally conservative/libertarian so definitely did not align with the bay area politics and echo chamber. The last three years in Nashville have been some of my happiest, but also the most financially successful of my life. Just purchased a home here in Nashville that would be unobtanium in California. I made this point about not voting for the same policies that caused people to leave California in the Oracle exodus story and got downvoted to death.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
octoberfranklin 6y ago
HN has a very anti-libertarian echo chamber. It's kinda sad.

thatguy0900 6y ago

At least the front page might stop constantly having posts ranting about Californian cities. Reading about Texas not being liberal enough instead will be a refreshing change of pace.

claudeganon 6y ago

I guess if they enshrine a landed aristocracy through locking in property taxes, that could happen, but I don’t know what other “bad regulations” CA has that would cause this. If we had a nationwide ban on noncompetes, that would be great for everyone.

pandaman 6y ago

This is a possibility, since an average Californian is far to the left of an average Texan and if we randomly picked few million Californians and transported them to Texas it would have indeed moved the voter base to the left. However, I've seen reports on the new voters in Texas voting to the right of the native Texans (e.g. from Ted Cruz's campaign, might not be a good source for HN, but there is no evidence of the opposite) and since majority of these are from California it could be that California expats in Texas are far to the right of the average Texan. It could be that more conservatives than liberals are escaping California or it could be that liberals prefer to move to other states (like Washington?) or a combination of the two.

bawolff 6y ago

If the policies were so bad, they probably wouldn't be there in the first place. If this is how to fail at policy making, more places should try failing.

NDizzle 6y ago

For me a very frustrating thing was trying to figure out where my tax money went in California. Roads suck. Public education sucks. Tent cities everywhere. Then COVID-19 hit and you could tell, early on, that it was going to be mismanaged, similar to our tax money. So glad I bailed back in May. No Texas for me. Arkansas instead! I think the last new tax I voted for was in 2004. Back when I was 25 and didn’t fully understand how terribly mismanaged the funds were.

lern_too_spel 6y ago
The California budget is public information. Proposition 13 means you as a new arrival were subsidizing property owners who were there before you, and the broken initiative process means that there's billions from the general fund tied up to pay bonds for pet projects of swindlers who are clever enough to put their projects on the ballot instead of trying to get them past the legislature.
- jelliclesfarm 6y ago
  You make it sound like newcomers came and built a viable city for existing Californians. It’s not like California was a wasteland before ‘new comers’ arrived. ‘New comers’ have always been entering California. The new comers came because California already had an ecosystem and infrastructure in place built ready made for them to thrive. New comers are not subsidizing existing property owners. They ..and their children use the infrastructure already in place that is subsidized for them. People with children older than 18 or with no kids have no use for public schools. Since property taxes are being used to fund public education, it’s essentially everyone subsidizing public education. For all. And this includes renters, undocumented immigrants, legal immigrants, those who pay taxes and those who don’t. Everyone. That’s what’s free public education means. For everyone in CA as public school fund budget is redistributed to all counties in California and not just the zip code it’s collected from... Tweaking Prop 13 won’t miraculously get us better roads or infrastructure. Or affordable housing. It will only go to fix the gap of the unfunded pension liabilities of unionized teachers[1]. Wages account for 60-80% of school budgets. Public education accounts for 44% of state budget. Almost all of property taxes goes towards public education. [1] https://www.city-journal.org/html/worst-union-america-13470.html https://www.city-journal.org/html/worst-union-america-13470.... The Worst Union in America How the California Teachers Association betrayed the schools and crippled the state Further: + https://reason.com/2018/11/09/california-teachers-unions-oppose-paying/ https://reason.com/2018/11/09/california-teachers-unions-opp... California Teachers Unions Oppose Paying Teachers More Because It Would Introduce Too Much Competition Into Public Schools + https://fee.org/articles/teachers-unions-are-the-schools-run-for-them/ https://fee.org/articles/teachers-unions-are-the-schools-run... Teachers Unions: Are the Schools Run for Them? + http://laschoolreport.com/antonucci-california-teachers-association-pledges-support-for-prop-13-overhaul/ http://laschoolreport.com/antonucci-california-teachers-asso... Antonucci: California Teachers Association pledges support for Prop. 13 overhaul

KorematsuFred 6y ago

I am a libertarian and I have felt pretty miserable living in California. Some other people telling what I can or can not do for greater good and then forcing those things down my throat is what made my life miserable. The last straw off camels back was San Jose banning gas powered stoves. WTF really ? Lucky for me I was under contract for a new house before that. Now I have the house and its prices have gone up suddenly. I feel sorry for sods who will end up buying my house for 5% premium for the pleasure of owning a gas stove, the sort of thing that is kind of free almost everywhere else. Good luck saving the planet with these antics.

eplanit 6y ago

This is why I'm afraid for Texas. I'd hate to see it ruined.

majormajor 6y ago

> I wonder if the people fleeing California will end up voting for the same bad policies that are the reason they had to leave in the first place. That is, do they connect the bad policies to the bad outcomes, or will they still favor the bad policies? They are leaving because of high prices caused by factors that are just as present in cities in Texas. They're bringing their money and jobs with them, so they'll bring some of those higher prices too. It's supply and demand, not liberal or conservative policies. Texas conservative suburb-dwellers don't want higher density housing either. They especially don't want lower income folks near them! Look at how litle public transit exists, because such things would let the poor people get closer to their little burb. Why are so many people falling for this "hey, look, we have lower prices, therefore we have better policies" talking point? Been there, done that. Lower prices are because I wouldn't pay as much to live there, that's not higher desirability.

Acrobatic_Road 6y ago
California has its own slew of historical policies which have dramatically decreased housing supply. A guy in san francisco was denied a permit to convert his laundromat into apartments because the city planners determined it would cast a partial shadow on a nearby playground for god's sake. That was after he had to shell out $$$ to determine that his laundromat was not a historical site. In Palo Alto, not a single new house was built in the 1970s. >It's supply and demand, not liberal or conservative policies. Do you not understand policies influence supply and demand? What do you think happens to supply after zoning laws and rent control are passed?