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There were three primary groups of beneficiaries - planters in the America's, slave traders in Europe, and the Kingdoms in Africa who were among the procurers a

by MrMan 6y ago

There were three primary groups of beneficiaries - planters in the America's, slave traders in Europe, and the Kingdoms in Africa who were among the procurers and sellers.

adventured 6y ago
The European empires had all the power: they had the military dominance, they had the means, they had the transport, they had the economic controls, and they benefitted the most accordingly. They also spent centuries torturing Africa. 12.5 million Africans don't end up enslaved and heading to the Americas without the European empires making it happen. The US owes a lot for its part, no question (what I'm saying is not a reduction in the responsibility of the US, I'm properly adding the Europeans to it). The Europeans owe that much more, including for the other 12 million slaves in the rest of the Americas (which, again, nobody ever wants to talk about re reparations, not under any circumstances). Every discussion is always about the US paying reparations. The Europeans were primarily responsible, the US didn't exist yet and banned the import of slaves as one of its first major actions post formation in January 1808. The US has spent two centuries dealing with the consequences of what the European powers did. We have had to deal with the consequences of their slave trade, while they've skirted it almost entirely. What consequences have the Europeans suffered over the past two centuries, for what they did? Almost nothing. It's long past time for the Europeans to pay, big time. It will bankrupt parts of Western Europe. That's how big the reparations number very obviously is.
- Rexxar 6y ago
  99% of European didn't have anything to do with this trade and slavery was progressively forbidden on the territory of nearly all European countries during middle age (since 1315 for France for example but also in other countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_medieval_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_medieval_Europe). All big European revolutions after 1789 had claims to stop slavery in overseas territory. So lots of European people have actually fought a to put an end to this long before Americans. Europeans were also victims from slavery from North Africa and Ottoman Empire at the same time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_Ottoman_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_Ottoman_Empire). Kings of the time obviously use this trade as an instrument of power but it was not something that had a meaningful impact on life of ordinary peoples. You are just inventing an alternate history to find someone to dislike.
  - dx87 6y ago
    It's pretty meaningless to say that slavery was outlawed in most European countries for hundreds of years, even though some had colonies around the world until well into the 1900s. European countries just outsourced the slavery and called it empire building.
    - Rexxar 6y ago
      There is a lot of difference. Morally, why European people should be responsible of regime that oppressed them and against they rebel multiple times ? Economically, European peasants that were the great majority of population didn't get any advantage of all of this, and some of them in southern/eastern Europe were victims of similar behaviour from other countries. Why someone from south of Italy whose ancestor were enslaved by Ottomans should pay for crimes of kings of Britain, Spain and Portugal ?

by MrMan 6y ago

There were three primary groups of beneficiaries - planters in the America's, slave traders in Europe, and the Kingdoms in Africa who were among the procurers and sellers.

adventured 6y ago

The European empires had all the power: they had the military dominance, they had the means, they had the transport, they had the economic controls, and they benefitted the most accordingly. They also spent centuries torturing Africa. 12.5 million Africans don't end up enslaved and heading to the Americas without the European empires making it happen. The US owes a lot for its part, no question (what I'm saying is not a reduction in the responsibility of the US, I'm properly adding the Europeans to it). The Europeans owe that much more, including for the other 12 million slaves in the rest of the Americas (which, again, nobody ever wants to talk about re reparations, not under any circumstances). Every discussion is always about the US paying reparations. The Europeans were primarily responsible, the US didn't exist yet and banned the import of slaves as one of its first major actions post formation in January 1808. The US has spent two centuries dealing with the consequences of what the European powers did. We have had to deal with the consequences of their slave trade, while they've skirted it almost entirely. What consequences have the Europeans suffered over the past two centuries, for what they did? Almost nothing. It's long past time for the Europeans to pay, big time. It will bankrupt parts of Western Europe. That's how big the reparations number very obviously is.

Rexxar 6y ago
99% of European didn't have anything to do with this trade and slavery was progressively forbidden on the territory of nearly all European countries during middle age (since 1315 for France for example but also in other countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_medieval_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_medieval_Europe). All big European revolutions after 1789 had claims to stop slavery in overseas territory. So lots of European people have actually fought a to put an end to this long before Americans. Europeans were also victims from slavery from North Africa and Ottoman Empire at the same time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_Ottoman_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_Ottoman_Empire). Kings of the time obviously use this trade as an instrument of power but it was not something that had a meaningful impact on life of ordinary peoples. You are just inventing an alternate history to find someone to dislike.
- dx87 6y ago
  It's pretty meaningless to say that slavery was outlawed in most European countries for hundreds of years, even though some had colonies around the world until well into the 1900s. European countries just outsourced the slavery and called it empire building.
  - Rexxar 6y ago
    There is a lot of difference. Morally, why European people should be responsible of regime that oppressed them and against they rebel multiple times ? Economically, European peasants that were the great majority of population didn't get any advantage of all of this, and some of them in southern/eastern Europe were victims of similar behaviour from other countries. Why someone from south of Italy whose ancestor were enslaved by Ottomans should pay for crimes of kings of Britain, Spain and Portugal ?