6 ms·

> But reparations should be paid, if for nothing else, at least for the unpaid hours. You must be young to speak with such certainty. Post-slavery, black shar

> But reparations should be paid, if for nothing else, at least for the unpaid hours. You must be young to speak with such certainty. Post-slavery, black sharecroppers basically made nothing after expenses. So how much was their time actually worth? (An economist will ask this.) Post-slavery, norhern states, which had no slaves, paid the cost of welfare for millions of black families. So how does that factor in? Since there's intermarriage in America, what's a quanta of African blood? How much does one get paid per 1/32? (This is referring to the heated race arguments of the 1800s and 1900s.) Do you have any experience with the above? My family is from the Detroit area, so I'm one of few posters on HN that actually does know something about these issues. The US paid a heavy price during the civil war, one of the biggest issues being related to slavery. Do the northern states get reparations for freeing the slaves? That's the problem when you drag history into modern times. One of the biggest advantages that the US has over other countries is that we don't continue to fight the same battles over and over. Even before corona, black familiies in America struggled greatly with maintaining households and educating their children. Instead of virtue signalling, why don't you contribute to solving today's enormous problems?

Zigurd 6y ago
Do the people who had their property stolen by the Nazis have to pay the US for liberating the death camps? Yeah, no. There are simple answers to several of your questions.
- adventured 6y ago
  Now that you mention it. Modern Germany should pay the US enormous sums in reparations for our role in destroying Nazi Germany, saving Western Europe (which Russia did not do, Russia enslaved half of Europe), freeing people from Nazi death camps, propping up a post-war democratic Germany against the conquering monster to the East. Not just the US of course. Britain and France among others are owed a lot more in reparations for what Germany did and the long-term consequences. The US got repaid - only in part - for its war lending. It has never been paid reparations for its losses in WW2 (including 400,000 military deaths). What's the reparations tally for 400,000 dead, going by the numbers thrown around these days? $10 trillion? Germany and Japan can figure out the split on that and then write some big fat checks to the families in question.
  - gibreparations 6y ago
    You're joking but what you describe is pretty much the Treaty of Versailles, which was actually one of the triggers of WW2.
    - redis_mlc 6y ago
      I study WW2, and FYI it's much more complicated than "the Treaty of Versailles." The problem is that the "state" that started WW2 was the Austria-Hungarian Empire (against Serbia), and Germany was just a treaty ally. But then A-H dissolved, leaving Germany holding the bag. It didn't help that Germany refused to negotiate a peace treaty earlier, and that they destroyed the Alsace region during their retreat. But in the end, it would have taken an occupation to demonstrate that Germany actually lost, and that didn't happen. Hence the later Allied occupations of Germany and Japan in WW2.
    - redis_mlc 6y ago
      > the "state" that started WW2 was the Austria-Hungarian Empire typo, make that WW1.
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    I study WW2. One of the most startling things, and one that takes the longest to comprehend, is that the entire industrial output of the US went into the war effort for about 5 years.
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  If you're young and stupid, everything looks simple. Just pull down all the statues right? Even when they're for black historical figures, like Frederick Douglass: https://www.whec.com/rochester-new-york-news/frederick-douglass-descendant-community-reacts-to-statue-torn-down-/5784140/ https://www.whec.com/rochester-new-york-news/frederick-dougl... If the US gets to the point of considering reparations, then economists will get involved, and it will be a logical calculation, not an emotional one. The problem of intermarriage will probably end up being an intractable one. But you didn't think about that, now did you?
chordalkeyboard 6y ago
> Post-slavery, black sharecroppers basically made nothing after expenses. So how much was their time actually worth? (An economist will ask this.) How much was the labor of slaves worth to the slaveowners? surely you're not arguing it was worth nothing? > Post-slavery, norhern states, which had no slaves, paid the cost of welfare for millions of black families. So how does that factor in? The price of social programs don't factor in at all. > Since there's intermarriage in America, what's a quanta of African blood? How much does one get paid per 1/32? (This is referring to the heated race arguments of the 1800s and 1900s.) This will come up if the reparations take the form of payments to individuals. > Do you have any experience with the above? My family is from the Detroit area, so I'm one of few posters on HN that actually does know something about these issues. Thank heavens we live in a country where people are allowed to have opinions without demonstrating the right to those opinions on the basis of heritage. > The US paid a heavy price during the civil war, one of the biggest issues being related to slavery. Do the northern states get reparations for freeing the slaves? Why would they? > That's the problem when you drag history into modern times. One of the biggest advantages that the US has over other countries is that we don't continue to fight the same battles over and over. Sadly you can't get rid of the effects of history by choosing to forget about it. > Even before corona, black familiies in America struggled greatly with maintaining households and educating their children. Instead of virtue signalling, why don't you contribute to solving today's enormous problems? This is unhelpful.
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  Seeing a lot of emotion and exclamations, but no experience, logic or insight. I can reply to all of your snarky comments with, "Why wouldn't what I said apply?" > surely you're not arguing it was worth nothing? So how much was it worth? Where is your calculation? The south fell behind the north because of using manual labor over industrialization, so it may well have been worth nothing. People fail to distinguish that the south was involved in slavery, not the north. The north literally owes nothing, and that means the US federally owes nothing. > This is unhelpful. No, your virtue signalling is completely unhelpful. We know where you stand - all talk and no action. You've suggested no solutions, and offered nothing but snarky rhetoric.

Zigurd 6y ago

Do the people who had their property stolen by the Nazis have to pay the US for liberating the death camps? Yeah, no. There are simple answers to several of your questions.

adventured 6y ago
Now that you mention it. Modern Germany should pay the US enormous sums in reparations for our role in destroying Nazi Germany, saving Western Europe (which Russia did not do, Russia enslaved half of Europe), freeing people from Nazi death camps, propping up a post-war democratic Germany against the conquering monster to the East. Not just the US of course. Britain and France among others are owed a lot more in reparations for what Germany did and the long-term consequences. The US got repaid - only in part - for its war lending. It has never been paid reparations for its losses in WW2 (including 400,000 military deaths). What's the reparations tally for 400,000 dead, going by the numbers thrown around these days? $10 trillion? Germany and Japan can figure out the split on that and then write some big fat checks to the families in question.
- gibreparations 6y ago
  You're joking but what you describe is pretty much the Treaty of Versailles, which was actually one of the triggers of WW2.
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    I study WW2, and FYI it's much more complicated than "the Treaty of Versailles." The problem is that the "state" that started WW2 was the Austria-Hungarian Empire (against Serbia), and Germany was just a treaty ally. But then A-H dissolved, leaving Germany holding the bag. It didn't help that Germany refused to negotiate a peace treaty earlier, and that they destroyed the Alsace region during their retreat. But in the end, it would have taken an occupation to demonstrate that Germany actually lost, and that didn't happen. Hence the later Allied occupations of Germany and Japan in WW2.
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    > the "state" that started WW2 was the Austria-Hungarian Empire typo, make that WW1.
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  I study WW2. One of the most startling things, and one that takes the longest to comprehend, is that the entire industrial output of the US went into the war effort for about 5 years.
redis_mlc 6y ago
If you're young and stupid, everything looks simple. Just pull down all the statues right? Even when they're for black historical figures, like Frederick Douglass: https://www.whec.com/rochester-new-york-news/frederick-douglass-descendant-community-reacts-to-statue-torn-down-/5784140/ https://www.whec.com/rochester-new-york-news/frederick-dougl... If the US gets to the point of considering reparations, then economists will get involved, and it will be a logical calculation, not an emotional one. The problem of intermarriage will probably end up being an intractable one. But you didn't think about that, now did you?

chordalkeyboard 6y ago

> Post-slavery, black sharecroppers basically made nothing after expenses. So how much was their time actually worth? (An economist will ask this.) How much was the labor of slaves worth to the slaveowners? surely you're not arguing it was worth nothing? > Post-slavery, norhern states, which had no slaves, paid the cost of welfare for millions of black families. So how does that factor in? The price of social programs don't factor in at all. > Since there's intermarriage in America, what's a quanta of African blood? How much does one get paid per 1/32? (This is referring to the heated race arguments of the 1800s and 1900s.) This will come up if the reparations take the form of payments to individuals. > Do you have any experience with the above? My family is from the Detroit area, so I'm one of few posters on HN that actually does know something about these issues. Thank heavens we live in a country where people are allowed to have opinions without demonstrating the right to those opinions on the basis of heritage. > The US paid a heavy price during the civil war, one of the biggest issues being related to slavery. Do the northern states get reparations for freeing the slaves? Why would they? > That's the problem when you drag history into modern times. One of the biggest advantages that the US has over other countries is that we don't continue to fight the same battles over and over. Sadly you can't get rid of the effects of history by choosing to forget about it. > Even before corona, black familiies in America struggled greatly with maintaining households and educating their children. Instead of virtue signalling, why don't you contribute to solving today's enormous problems? This is unhelpful.

redis_mlc 6y ago
Seeing a lot of emotion and exclamations, but no experience, logic or insight. I can reply to all of your snarky comments with, "Why wouldn't what I said apply?" > surely you're not arguing it was worth nothing? So how much was it worth? Where is your calculation? The south fell behind the north because of using manual labor over industrialization, so it may well have been worth nothing. People fail to distinguish that the south was involved in slavery, not the north. The north literally owes nothing, and that means the US federally owes nothing. > This is unhelpful. No, your virtue signalling is completely unhelpful. We know where you stand - all talk and no action. You've suggested no solutions, and offered nothing but snarky rhetoric.