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So, am I reading this right? the Russian government had the ability to impersonate the credentials of ANYONE in the marjoity of the fortune 500, the US Governme
by swalsh 6y ago
So, am I reading this right? the Russian government had the ability to impersonate the credentials of ANYONE in the marjoity of the fortune 500, the US Government, the US DOD, and our telecomm infrastructure... and they likely had this access for a while.
How is this NOT an act of war?
- wavefunction 6y agoRussia has a policy where they allow "patriotic hackers" to operate freely while turning a blind eye to their actions. The Kremlin even mentioned this in their disavowal.
- dragonwriter 6y agoWhile I disagree with the claim that merely having the capacity is an act of war, doing something that would be an act of war through privateers rather than official state forces doesn’t make it any less an act of war than it otherwise would be.
- dragonwriter 6y agoHaving the capacity isn’t an act of war, in the same way that having the much more significant capacity to obliterate major population centers isn’t. How the capacity is applied may be another story.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- anaganisk 6y agoAnd how many such tools have been employed by CIA? So are all the other countries supposed to wage war against US? Govt's all over the world do shady shit, constantly. Sometimes they get caught, sometimes they dont. Men in power use tensions to stay in power, waging wars against more powerful/equal, wont help men in power neither of the sides.
- tessierashpool 6y agoThe entire Trump administration's been an act of war. They got classified intel, private phone calls with the president, numerous concessions, everything they could have possibly wanted in terms of foreign policy, including an abrupt and chaotic withdrawal from Syria where Russian troops literally took over American bases, and a significant number of GOP congressional representatives visiting Moscow on July 4th together, with no American press there to cover the event or tell us who they met with, what they discussed, or why they went. There's also evidence that Russia infiltrated the Treasury in 2015, unrelated to the election interference afterwards. It's been war for a long time, and we have not been winning.
- robertlagrant 6y agoOn the plus side, no actual wars were started or joined. Like Jimmy Carter.
- justaman 6y agoIt is an act of war. Be suspect of anyone downplaying.
- jessaustin 6y agoThat's what all the SolarWinds people are saying!
- justaman 6y agoI suspect I'm being downvoted by foreign agents.
- jessaustin 6y agoWe can't rule out that possibility, but I also downvoted that comment. HN needs less paranoia. [EDIT:] although, with the more recent comment you have approached tantalizingly close to possible irony. So, I upvoted that.
- rossdavidh 6y agoWell, that is very similar to asking how it is that conventional spying is not an act of war. It isn't, because everyone is going to be doing it anyway, so if you make that an act of war we have war all the time, rather than nations not doing it.
- 8note 6y agoThe US executive branch is favourable to Russian interference. They're invited
- ars 6y ago> How is this NOT an act of war? Because spying is not an act of war. If it was, the entire world would be at war with the entire world.
- aaomidi 6y agoLmao act of war. You going to fight? This is just what countries do to eachother. Welcome to the 21st century.
- jimbokun 6y agoSo it's an act of war. Now what? Does the US escalate to a shooting war with the second biggest nuclear power in the world? So it's not surprising Russia thinks they can act with a lot of impunity without facing catastrophic consequences.
- swalsh 6y agoWe can try sanctions, but we've pretty much maxed out that route after the Crimea annexation. If we do nothing, we're sending the message that these actions are okay.
- nemothekid 6y ago>If we do nothing, we're sending the message that these actions are okay. I think it sends the message that these actions won’t trigger nuclear war. How would you even get public support for war with Russia?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- jessaustin 6y agoMaybe we should "send the message" that we won't install insecure shit on our networks?
- tfehring 6y agoWe aren’t even close to maxing out what could be accomplished with economic sanctions! The US and Russia still have a direct trading relationship!
- UnpossibleJim 6y agoAs I'm forced to speculate, because it is inconvenient for us to call it an act of war. We routinely conduct cyber espionage missions on other countries and "probe" their cyber defenses. If we were to call this an all out act of war, then we would also be found guilty of unprovoked acts of war on many other countries, including allied countries. So, too, would many other countries. This is the new spywork.
- citilife 6y ago> the Russian government You sure about that? "They" have been claiming Russia is the boogie man for years, but it's never been proven. In this case, it does appear like a complex hack. Wouldn't be surprised if it's China, Iran, North Korea, Russia, U.S. Government (yes, hacking itself), etc.
- mrlala 6y agoWho is "they"? And what hasn't been proven, are you referring to Russian interference in 2016?
- nromiun 6y agoAm I missing something? Why is everyone so sure that it is Russia? Are they the only ones with access to computers beside US?
- mistermann 6y agoPsychological conditioning is my theory. If you think about it, has this not been a rather popular news item for many years? If people should not get their perception of world affairs from the news, then from where should they get it?
- DethNinja 6y agoBecause it definitely couldn’t be China or any other country.
- lionkor 6y agoCouldn't be china, they can't access the outside world ;)
- Consultant32452 6y agoBecause Russia has somewhat of an oil monopoly in Europe and the US doesn't like that. We've been being fed Russia war propaganda for at least a decade. If it even feels like a "Russia kind of thing" to the general public that is just the result of intentional conditioning by warmongers. It could have been literally any major world power, including our allies. No evidence has been presented whatsoever as to who the culprit is.
- jessaustin 6y agoHell, it could be a different part of the USA government, like those "sonic embassy attacks" were.
- dillondoyle 6y agoWhat? are you implying that the US government perpetrated attacks on US gov personnel? the amount of insane unfounded crap posted in HN comments is growing and i'm not sure if there is a fix. BTW recent articles say it's microwaves
- georgiecasey 6y ago> How is this NOT an act of war? So you want bombing to start over this? I don't.
- abvdasker 6y agoAnyone calling for war between the the largest nuclear power and second-largest nuclear power is insane or ignorant. To even suggest something like that is obscene given the incomprehensible loss of life it would entail. I think most people who can remember it would agree that it's a good thing the Cold War stayed cold.
- beamatronic 6y agoAre you personally willing to go to war? Are you willing to be a foot soldier? Do you wish to kill? Do you wish to be killed?
- skinkestek 6y agoI do not want to go to war over this, and generally I have friends from a number of countries in the east but make no mistake: if my country asks me to defend its borders or even NATO borders I'll be there[1], even if it is many years since I finished draft and I know have a family. The alternative will probably be worse. Anyways, no sane, decent person should wish a war. [1]: I am a whole lot less interested in defending us around the middle East and in Afghanistan though.
- sorokod 6y agoIf you had an experince of an actual war, you would NOT have asked this question.
- pvg 6y agoHow is this NOT an act of war? Very simply because it's not an act anyone would initiate armed conflict over.
- SpaceRaccoon 6y agoDid you also consider this[0] an act of war? [0] (U.S. Escalates Online Attacks on Russia’s Power Grid) [ https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/15/us/politics/trump-cyber-russia-grid.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/15/us/politics/trump-cyber-r... ]
- bosswipe 6y agoThat was retaliatory. We're already in a war.
- kerng 6y agoTense is wrong, they have this ability RIGHT NOW to a very high degree of certainty. Just because the tip of the iceberg has been discovered doesn't mean its mitigated. Even Fireeye is probably still compromised. It will take a while to understand the actual scope of this. And in the meantime new attacks are likely happening also.
- jessaustin 6y agoHopefully they'll find out some horrible things that our public servan^Wmasters are doing, and leak it to Wikileaks... where have I heard that before?
- Consultant32452 6y agoWe (the public) have not been provided evidence that this was Russia. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Some anonymous people claimed it's Russia. That is meaningless.
- bduerst 6y agoIt's from sources vetted by Reuters. Their public-facing anonymity was required for coming forward. https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-cyber-treasury-exclusive/suspected-russian-hackers-spied-on-u-s-treasury-emails-sources-idUKKBN28N0PI https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-cyber-treasury-exclus...
- Consultant32452 6y agoRight, so anonymous sources who provided no evidence to the public. It's meaningless.
- bduerst 6y agoThe sources are not anonymous to Reuters and they were authoritative enough in the matter to publish. It is not meaningless.
- Consultant32452 6y agoDo you remember when a named source, Colin Powell, showed some photoshops of "weapons lab trucks" to the UN leading to us going to war in multiple countries resulting in millions of dead people? That was a named person with claimed evidence. This is even less credible than Powell. It's hard to get less credible than unnamed sources with no evidence.
- syshum 6y agoThis may have been a valid assertion in a time where news media could be trusted I, and many others, no longer have any faith or trust in the news media. Time and time again the news media has been caught spreading lies and disinformation so sorry I am no longer going to "take their word" for it, and trust they have properly vetted their sources Also They do not lead themselves to credibility by having a Matrix style photo with "hooded hacker" trope prominent in the article
- bluedino 6y agoIf it were Iran, Turkey, etc the missiles would already be in the air
- randmeerkat 6y agoIf the U.S. didn’t go to war over Crimea why would they go to war over this?
- xtracto 6y agoBecause Crimea is another country/outside of usa jurisdiction? Whereas this is a direct attack to USA institutions/government.
- randmeerkat 6y agoThis isn’t an attack _yet_. This is potentially a part of the process of developing the capabilities for a later attack. Crimea is the first time a nation state has meaningfully changed its borders that I know of since WW2. As a result I would consider Crimea a much more egregious attack on American values and western interests than a software vulnerability that hasn’t been leveraged to cause actual harm.
- kens 6y ago> Crimea is the first time a nation state has meaningfully changed its borders that I know of since WW2. I took a look out of curiosity, and there have been a lot more border changes in the world than I was expecting. Lots due to decolonization in Africa. The partition of India in 1947 was huge. Lots of European changes, of course. Many small border cleanups. The changes go on for page. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_border_changes_since_World_War_I https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_border_change... (That page is since WWI, so skip to 1945.)
- yibg 6y agoEveryone country does this to every other country that they can. Not like the US doesn't (or at least try to) pull off stuff like this too. So if it's an act of war then every major power has pretty much at some point declared war on every other major power, even allies.
- Nginx487 6y agoIt is. Hope, after new administration takes office, "hell sanctions" package would be approved, as well as closing Russian embassies and increasing military pressure to its borders. Sanctions already work, and Russian regime does not enjoy a variety of options to oppose it.
- COGlory 6y agoIf it wasn't Russia (and the evidence supporting that it was hasn't been released yet) it would be literally anyone else. North Korea. Iran. Even our allies. Some 400lb dude sitting in his parents basement in New Jersey. And the US is doing this, or attempting to do this, to many other countries. Ultimately, the hack is the practical responsibility of the victim. Don't fall for the Kissinger style war mongering.
- LinuxBender 6y agoDigital war? Sure. We are probably hitting back right now. Traditional war? I hope not. 1) I don't have enough bottle caps saved up. and 2) in all seriousness, most humans would not survive WW3, not even those with bunkers.
- adrr 6y agoBecause hacking isn’t considered an act of war. If they turned off our infrastructure that is an act of war because it would have caused material harm.
- j0ba 6y agoDon't worry, you'll get your war.
- leggomuhgreggo 6y agoAccording to Charles Carmakal, senior vice president and chief technical officer at Mandiant, FireEye’s incident response arm “There will unfortunately be more victims that have to come forward in the coming weeks and months,” he said. While some have attributed the attack to a state-sponsored Russian group known as APT 29, or Cozy Bear, FireEye had not yet seen sufficient evidence to name the actor, he said. A Kremlin official denied that Russia had any involvement. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-15/fireeye-stumbled-across-solarwinds-breach-while-probing-own-hack https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-15/fireeye-s...
- Fjolsvith 6y agoEven potentially affected our election infrastructure: https://www.trendsmap.com/twitter/tweet/1338708743782092800 https://www.trendsmap.com/twitter/tweet/1338708743782092800 Edit: Had a thought - Since the NetFlow Traffic Analyzer tool stores historical network traffic data, I wonder if Dominion traffic was pulled before the breach was closed.
- Fjolsvith 6y agoSignificant after Chris Krebs testified to Congress that Dominion machines were connected to the internet.