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You might be interested in the history of the "Stop Murdering Our Children" campaign. It had a massive impact on the development of the Netherlands. In the 60s,

You might be interested in the history of the "Stop Murdering Our Children" campaign. It had a massive impact on the development of the Netherlands. In the 60s, automobile-pedestrian deaths were higher per capita than in the usa. It wasn't always a bike mecca. https://www.dutchreach.org/car-child-murder-protests-safer-nl-roads/ https://www.dutchreach.org/car-child-murder-protests-safer-n...

JasonFruit 6y ago
Accusing people involved in accidents of murder might not be the best way to make them sympathetic and gain their support.
- corty 6y ago
  Nowadays, you can get yourself sentenced for murder for a traffic accident: https://m.dw.com/en/berlin-car-race-death-top-german-court-partially-upholds-murder-conviction/a-53853406 https://m.dw.com/en/berlin-car-race-death-top-german-court-p...
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    If you intentionally race through a city.
  - sidlls 6y ago
    Good. Punishments for bad driving ought to be much more severe.
    - cbozeman 6y ago
      The only thing more severe than a life sentence is execution... so... execute bad drivers?
      - sidlls 6y ago
        I meant more generally. Drivers get off very easily for very poor behavior that is often negligent and sometimes maliciously so, especially in their treatment of pedestrians and cyclists. "More severe" includes "any at all."
- lmm 6y ago
  We've played nice for decades and motorists have kept causing thousands of preventable deaths and show no signs of stopping. At some point we have to stop pretending these negligent homicides are "accidents".
- sidlls 6y ago
  People are self-centered assholes and this is reflected in their driving. An “accident” is an innocent, honest mistake. Incidents involving vehicles and pedestrians are cyclists are closer to negligence than an innocent mistake.
- tomcooks 6y ago
  If I get hurt or killed because you're either careless or not experienced enough to drive a heavy vehicle what's the alternative solution you have in mind?
teekert 6y ago
Interesting! To me the best bike "lanes" are not lanes at all, they are bike paths through the Forrest, no cars allowed or even in sight. Paths like this [0]. The air is clean, it's safe and relaxing. When taking my kids to school I go over such bike paths, it's nice, I don't have to worry so much about the kids. Then we hit the road again, I'm breathing fumes, I keep telling my kids to stay at the side, tell them exactly where to brake and cross the road... We should separate cars from bikes as much as possible. https://cobblescycling.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/4-gave-fietspaden-rondom-eindhoven-routes-beginner-fietspaden-rondom-eindhoven-liggende-foto1.jpg https://cobblescycling.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/4-gave...
- cratermoon 6y ago
  That might work for recreational cycling but what about commuting?
  - danielecook 6y ago
    I think this idea can be transferred to cities. To me the best bike network is one that is independent of the road network. Look at the 606 or lake front path in Chicago. Look at Boulder Colorado which has an extensive network where many of the paths hug the creek running through the city. The easiest place to start in most cities is to just build paths along rivers and streams that go beneath or above roads.
    - adrianN 6y ago
      Yeah, we'll just demolish a few houses to build a completely independent road network, just for bicycles. I'm sure that'll work.
      - tdons 6y ago
        It works in Houten, The Netherlands [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houten https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houten Come visit! >The design principle of separating cycling and walking from car traffic has been pushed to the limit. Houten is unique in this. Cycling comfort and safety are extremely high (optimal), even by Dutch standards. A large network of bike paths makes it convenient to cycle to various destinations and within the town the bike is the most popular means of transport. > The city of Houten is known as, nationally and internationally, and in growing interest from home and abroad, as the worlds best practical example for bicycle friendliness. A growing number of groups with politicians, developers, designers and students visit cycling city Houten for study purposes and inspiration.

JasonFruit 6y ago

Accusing people involved in accidents of murder might not be the best way to make them sympathetic and gain their support.

corty 6y ago
Nowadays, you can get yourself sentenced for murder for a traffic accident: https://m.dw.com/en/berlin-car-race-death-top-german-court-partially-upholds-murder-conviction/a-53853406 https://m.dw.com/en/berlin-car-race-death-top-german-court-p...
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  If you intentionally race through a city.
- sidlls 6y ago
  Good. Punishments for bad driving ought to be much more severe.
  - cbozeman 6y ago
    The only thing more severe than a life sentence is execution... so... execute bad drivers?
    - sidlls 6y ago
      I meant more generally. Drivers get off very easily for very poor behavior that is often negligent and sometimes maliciously so, especially in their treatment of pedestrians and cyclists. "More severe" includes "any at all."
lmm 6y ago
We've played nice for decades and motorists have kept causing thousands of preventable deaths and show no signs of stopping. At some point we have to stop pretending these negligent homicides are "accidents".
sidlls 6y ago
People are self-centered assholes and this is reflected in their driving. An “accident” is an innocent, honest mistake. Incidents involving vehicles and pedestrians are cyclists are closer to negligence than an innocent mistake.
tomcooks 6y ago
If I get hurt or killed because you're either careless or not experienced enough to drive a heavy vehicle what's the alternative solution you have in mind?

teekert 6y ago

Interesting! To me the best bike "lanes" are not lanes at all, they are bike paths through the Forrest, no cars allowed or even in sight. Paths like this [0]. The air is clean, it's safe and relaxing. When taking my kids to school I go over such bike paths, it's nice, I don't have to worry so much about the kids. Then we hit the road again, I'm breathing fumes, I keep telling my kids to stay at the side, tell them exactly where to brake and cross the road... We should separate cars from bikes as much as possible. https://cobblescycling.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/4-gave-fietspaden-rondom-eindhoven-routes-beginner-fietspaden-rondom-eindhoven-liggende-foto1.jpg https://cobblescycling.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/4-gave...

cratermoon 6y ago
That might work for recreational cycling but what about commuting?
- danielecook 6y ago
  I think this idea can be transferred to cities. To me the best bike network is one that is independent of the road network. Look at the 606 or lake front path in Chicago. Look at Boulder Colorado which has an extensive network where many of the paths hug the creek running through the city. The easiest place to start in most cities is to just build paths along rivers and streams that go beneath or above roads.
  - adrianN 6y ago
    Yeah, we'll just demolish a few houses to build a completely independent road network, just for bicycles. I'm sure that'll work.
    - tdons 6y ago
      It works in Houten, The Netherlands [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houten https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houten Come visit! >The design principle of separating cycling and walking from car traffic has been pushed to the limit. Houten is unique in this. Cycling comfort and safety are extremely high (optimal), even by Dutch standards. A large network of bike paths makes it convenient to cycle to various destinations and within the town the bike is the most popular means of transport. > The city of Houten is known as, nationally and internationally, and in growing interest from home and abroad, as the worlds best practical example for bicycle friendliness. A growing number of groups with politicians, developers, designers and students visit cycling city Houten for study purposes and inspiration.