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I hope the pandemic will finally be an eye-opener to many: millions upon millions lost jobs due to a purely non-economic reason, and nothing went broken. Many

I hope the pandemic will finally be an eye-opener to many: millions upon millions lost jobs due to a purely non-economic reason, and nothing went broken. Many if not most jobs people are doing today are bs jobs which society doesn't need at all. We have to find ways to end it, to find these people some useful application rather than making them do what they know makes no sense and only exists to keep money moving.

cmdli 6y ago
Plenty went broken. People stayed inside, stopped going out to restaurants, stopped practicing their hobbies, stopped traveling to see family. Most people lost their jobs not just because the government ordered them fired, but because most people are currently going without a lot of the things that bring them joy that these workers support.
est31 6y ago
I don't think those people would agree that their jobs are bs. Or their customers. Many people like eating out at restaurants. If you don't, then that's your choice, but don't interpolate this to everyone.
gizmo686 6y ago
Except that a lot of real value was lost. Many people didn't go on cruises cruises, or visit an amusement park, or go to a theater, or eat at a restaurant, or get a haircut. We haven't noticed the loss of capacity to provide these services because there is a corresponding drop in demand. However, the drop in demand is due entirely to a temporary public health crisis. All else being equal, people much prefer to be able to take advantage of these services, and we are poorer as a society if they are not available. [0] Although, in many cases, the decline could be seen before an official policy was implemented due to individual consumer concerns.
yardstick 6y ago
Can you give an example of such jobs? All I can think of are retail and hospitality employees whose jobs are normally very much useful. Cooks. Waitresses. Sales assistants. Tour guides. Bus drivers. To name a few.
pattusk 6y ago
I think the people with BS jobs were the least likely to lose them in the pandemic. All the paper pushers, software engineers (after years in the industry I can confidently say that many SE jobs are BS jobs - you may do something but that something is still BS) and useless managers just switched to WFH and tried to maintain a veneer of activity with BS Zoom meetings. On the other hand plenty of cashiers, waiters, janitors... all lost their jobs. I think a better sign that many jobs are BS jobs is that it seems many companies did not register a drop in productivity as a result of people working from home. Likely that these people weren't producing much value before.
johnisgood 6y ago
I agree with you on that many jobs are bullshit jobs. They just exists to get money, but it is something everyone could live without. Lots of things could get easily automated. I do not know, but people fear automation. Is it not the goal that people could work less? But if you work less, then you get paid less, so we need a way to give people money gained from automation, so everyone can enjoy their life without doing bullshit jobs. It is never going to stop if people not doing bullshit jobs means they do not get money. We need a system for this. People should chill, lay back, let the automation tool do its job. People should not worry about not being able to do bullshit jobs for money. :/
- tsimionescu 6y ago
  Bullshit jobs are jobs that don't bring any benefit (except to the employee and through office politics, of course). You don't need to automate the role of a paper pusher - they don't have any role to begin with.
  - johnisgood 6y ago
    I did not mean to imply otherwise, just put them together as it came to mind. :) Most of these jobs probably do not need automation because their existence is based on bullshit to begin with.
1vuio0pswjnm7 6y ago
Can anyone provide a few examples of BS jobs? Would the list include any jobs working for so-called tech companies?
hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
This is such a bizarre and honestly offensive take. Jobs that went away were things like waiters, bartenders, event planners, theater performers, etc. These aren't BS jobs at all, and the stuff they enabled (going out to restaurants, seeing a live show, traveling) are things that were sorely missed by many. On the contrary, I'm still employed, and it's much easier to argue I have a bullshit job. I don't want to go into too much detail but will just say my job only exists due to the absurd complexity of the US healthcare system.
jb775 6y ago
Keeping money moving is the name of the game. Each dollar transferred represents at least 10x in value trickled throughout supply chains, so they're eventually providing value from a reflexive standpoint.
refurb 6y ago
This is a terrible take. Yes, the system didn’t “break”, but that’s because most gov’t used debt to backstop the pain and in the case of the US, printed more currency. Both of those measures come with a price and you can’t keep it up for long.
FpUser 6y ago
The only job that really matters is acquiring food as it is needed for survival. The rest comes from people wanting to entertain themselves one or the other way. Maybe instead of telling people what jobs are needed you'll let them to decide?
rhino369 6y ago
There is a huge chasm between absolutely necessary for society not to fall apart and "bs." A lot of laid off people do is worthwhile/nice-to-have/useful. And a lot of necessary things are being skipped for a limited time--like schooling--that are unsustainable in the long term. You can skip an oil change, but that doesn't mean your ICE car doesn't need one.

cmdli 6y ago

Plenty went broken. People stayed inside, stopped going out to restaurants, stopped practicing their hobbies, stopped traveling to see family. Most people lost their jobs not just because the government ordered them fired, but because most people are currently going without a lot of the things that bring them joy that these workers support.

est31 6y ago

I don't think those people would agree that their jobs are bs. Or their customers. Many people like eating out at restaurants. If you don't, then that's your choice, but don't interpolate this to everyone.

gizmo686 6y ago

Except that a lot of real value was lost. Many people didn't go on cruises cruises, or visit an amusement park, or go to a theater, or eat at a restaurant, or get a haircut. We haven't noticed the loss of capacity to provide these services because there is a corresponding drop in demand. However, the drop in demand is due entirely to a temporary public health crisis. All else being equal, people much prefer to be able to take advantage of these services, and we are poorer as a society if they are not available. [0] Although, in many cases, the decline could be seen before an official policy was implemented due to individual consumer concerns.

yardstick 6y ago

Can you give an example of such jobs? All I can think of are retail and hospitality employees whose jobs are normally very much useful. Cooks. Waitresses. Sales assistants. Tour guides. Bus drivers. To name a few.

pattusk 6y ago

I think the people with BS jobs were the least likely to lose them in the pandemic. All the paper pushers, software engineers (after years in the industry I can confidently say that many SE jobs are BS jobs - you may do something but that something is still BS) and useless managers just switched to WFH and tried to maintain a veneer of activity with BS Zoom meetings. On the other hand plenty of cashiers, waiters, janitors... all lost their jobs. I think a better sign that many jobs are BS jobs is that it seems many companies did not register a drop in productivity as a result of people working from home. Likely that these people weren't producing much value before.

johnisgood 6y ago

I agree with you on that many jobs are bullshit jobs. They just exists to get money, but it is something everyone could live without. Lots of things could get easily automated. I do not know, but people fear automation. Is it not the goal that people could work less? But if you work less, then you get paid less, so we need a way to give people money gained from automation, so everyone can enjoy their life without doing bullshit jobs. It is never going to stop if people not doing bullshit jobs means they do not get money. We need a system for this. People should chill, lay back, let the automation tool do its job. People should not worry about not being able to do bullshit jobs for money. :/

tsimionescu 6y ago
Bullshit jobs are jobs that don't bring any benefit (except to the employee and through office politics, of course). You don't need to automate the role of a paper pusher - they don't have any role to begin with.
- johnisgood 6y ago
  I did not mean to imply otherwise, just put them together as it came to mind. :) Most of these jobs probably do not need automation because their existence is based on bullshit to begin with.

1vuio0pswjnm7 6y ago

Can anyone provide a few examples of BS jobs? Would the list include any jobs working for so-called tech companies?

hn_throwaway_99 6y ago

This is such a bizarre and honestly offensive take. Jobs that went away were things like waiters, bartenders, event planners, theater performers, etc. These aren't BS jobs at all, and the stuff they enabled (going out to restaurants, seeing a live show, traveling) are things that were sorely missed by many. On the contrary, I'm still employed, and it's much easier to argue I have a bullshit job. I don't want to go into too much detail but will just say my job only exists due to the absurd complexity of the US healthcare system.

jb775 6y ago

Keeping money moving is the name of the game. Each dollar transferred represents at least 10x in value trickled throughout supply chains, so they're eventually providing value from a reflexive standpoint.

refurb 6y ago

This is a terrible take. Yes, the system didn’t “break”, but that’s because most gov’t used debt to backstop the pain and in the case of the US, printed more currency. Both of those measures come with a price and you can’t keep it up for long.

FpUser 6y ago

The only job that really matters is acquiring food as it is needed for survival. The rest comes from people wanting to entertain themselves one or the other way. Maybe instead of telling people what jobs are needed you'll let them to decide?

rhino369 6y ago

There is a huge chasm between absolutely necessary for society not to fall apart and "bs." A lot of laid off people do is worthwhile/nice-to-have/useful. And a lot of necessary things are being skipped for a limited time--like schooling--that are unsustainable in the long term. You can skip an oil change, but that doesn't mean your ICE car doesn't need one.