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Take it another level. Every car should have a chip. Once you are in a speed limit - your car can't go faster. Oh wait, this wont generate revenue - so it wo

Take it another level. Every car should have a chip. Once you are in a speed limit - your car can't go faster. Oh wait, this wont generate revenue - so it wont work. Never mind.

beagle3 6y ago
Almost all cars can be set to respect a speed limit already; I do that when I drive on highways to make sure I don’t accidentally go over (which is easy to do especially when others around me do it). Outside of the US (and perhaps a few other places, but not many), speeding tickets are not designed to be a revenue source. (They do produce revenue, of course - but are not optimized or planned for that purpose)
leetcrew 6y ago
better yet, we ought to just put chips in people's brains. make illicit thoughts impossible.
- AgentME 6y ago
  It's a bad analogy because it's hard to imagine any kinds of thoughts/behaviors that we're absolutely sure we want to prevent. (Maybe some amount of nonviolent mischief is good for humanity, maybe the impulse for violent retribution is necessary when justice systems are flawed, maybe these kinds of thoughts are generally not acted on and actually make people more self-reflective, etc.) But it's at least a bit harder to come up with reasons that speed limits should be exceedable on public roads and a bit easier to think up solutions. Medical emergencies are one possible case, but having an override that records that the override happened and that you'll have to give a good reason for doing is a possible solution. Maybe there's sudden traffic situations where you have to speed up to avoid a crash, and the system could be made to allow limited bursts of speed.
roywiggins 6y ago
EU has been making some noises about doing exactly this. https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/288592-eu-wants-speed-governors-data-recorders-in-cars-for-2022 https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/288592-eu-wants-speed-go...
- petre 6y ago
  Best keep my old car then. Some of the measures are useful though, some like alcohol interlocks are dumb, will trigger too many false positives or are easily circumvented. Compliance by 2024 is actually a hidden subsidy to the auto industry. How would they retrofit lane assist on an older vehicle? You'd have to buy a new one.
tdeck 6y ago
This idea goes back a long way. In 1923 42,000 Cincinnati residents petitioned for mandatory speed governors to limit cars to 25 miles per hour [1]. This was an era when pedestrians typically owned the streets, so the advent of high-speed traffic caused a lot of pedestrian deaths. 1: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-Cincinnati-speed-governor-referendum-frightened-motordom-into-organizing-to-reshape_fig1_236825193 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-Cincinnati-speed-gov...
- lmm 6y ago
  You say that like high-speed traffic isn't still causing a lot of pedestrian deaths.
AnthonyMouse 6y ago
> very car should have a chip. Once you are in a speed limit - your car can't go faster. This is actually dangerous because people need the ability to use discretion. Suppose you're transporting a part to repair a machine which is causing a fatality every five seconds as long as it's offline. Getting there 20 seconds faster saves four lives. Do you still want a chip that prevents you from exceeding the speed limit? > Oh wait, this wont generate revenue - so it wont work. Never mind. This is a major reason why the US doesn't have many speed cameras either. Also why most of the speed limits are set 10-15 MPH below the ordinary speed of travel. If violations are prolific and enforcement is sporadic, they can generate fine revenue whenever they want. If enforcement is automatic then people figure that out and do what's necessary to avoid the fine, but then you're left with an expensive boondoggle that isn't generating revenue. It also deprives the police of the excuse they currently have to pull over cars at whim when everybody is speeding at all times, and they wouldn't be happy to lose that at all.
- lordnacho 6y ago
  Is that Homo Economicus driving the delivery truck? You'd expect a machine that saves a life every 5 seconds to have some kind of investment in redundancy. Either is spread over more machines or the wonder device has spare parts that are kept stocked. And if not, I'm sure parliament could pass a law to clear the streets for the day.
  - Denvercoder9 6y ago
    It's a bad example, but there are legitimate scenarios where you want the ability to (temporarily) drive above the speed limit. E.g. speeding up until you can get out of the way of an ambulance, or to avoid getting rear-ended.
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    > Is that Homo Economicus driving the delivery truck? Is it too far of a leap to expect that someone who knows they're doing something where lives are at risk and time is of the essence will rightly estimate that the optimal travel speed is in excess of the ordinary speed at which accountants commute to their office buildings? > You'd expect a machine that saves a life every 5 seconds to have some kind of investment in redundancy. Either is spread over more machines or the wonder device has spare parts that are kept stocked. You might think that, but in reality, humans are fallible and don't always have perfect foresight. Maybe they had a spare on site, but the spare was defective, or was the wrong revision number and incompatible. Maybe the part is a filter, but the problem is that there are a hundred times more pollutants than normal, so they already used all their spare filters and need twenty more ASAP. Maybe the machine is the backup generator for a hospital, which was damaged by the same lightning strike that caused the power outage. > And if not, I'm sure parliament could pass a law to clear the streets for the day. The scenario is the machine goes offline so the company immediately calls the shop with the part who immediately leaves to deliver it. It's a five minute drive at the speed limit, but meaningfully less if you exceed it. The police response time is six minutes, they can't help you. Your suggestion is for parliament to enact legislation in that amount of time?
andylynch 6y ago
It’s common for trucks here to be governed to 70mph with a sign on the back saying so. Pretty sure it’s an insurance thing. Recently I’ve seen the odd ones mentioning 40mph in town too.
Ichthypresbyter 6y ago
GPS isn't good enough for that yet. I have received warnings from my GPS because it thought I was driving at 70 mph in a 20 mph limit. In fact, I was driving at 70 mph on a motorway flyover above a residential street that had a 20 mph limit. If it had been able to cut the engine (or, worse, apply the brakes) then that could have produced a dangerous situation.
vixen99 6y ago
There are situations in which that might be dangerous. On the other hand cars could be fixed (via the chip) with external and internal warning signals to show the world and driver that a speed limit has been exceeded. This might constitute a psychological barrier to breaking the limit when everyone around you knows you're in the wrong.

Take it another level. Every car should have a chip. Once you are in a speed limit - your car can't go faster. Oh wait, this wont generate revenue - so it wont work. Never mind.

beagle3 6y ago

Almost all cars can be set to respect a speed limit already; I do that when I drive on highways to make sure I don’t accidentally go over (which is easy to do especially when others around me do it). Outside of the US (and perhaps a few other places, but not many), speeding tickets are not designed to be a revenue source. (They do produce revenue, of course - but are not optimized or planned for that purpose)

leetcrew 6y ago

better yet, we ought to just put chips in people's brains. make illicit thoughts impossible.

AgentME 6y ago
It's a bad analogy because it's hard to imagine any kinds of thoughts/behaviors that we're absolutely sure we want to prevent. (Maybe some amount of nonviolent mischief is good for humanity, maybe the impulse for violent retribution is necessary when justice systems are flawed, maybe these kinds of thoughts are generally not acted on and actually make people more self-reflective, etc.) But it's at least a bit harder to come up with reasons that speed limits should be exceedable on public roads and a bit easier to think up solutions. Medical emergencies are one possible case, but having an override that records that the override happened and that you'll have to give a good reason for doing is a possible solution. Maybe there's sudden traffic situations where you have to speed up to avoid a crash, and the system could be made to allow limited bursts of speed.

roywiggins 6y ago

EU has been making some noises about doing exactly this. https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/288592-eu-wants-speed-governors-data-recorders-in-cars-for-2022 https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/288592-eu-wants-speed-go...

petre 6y ago
Best keep my old car then. Some of the measures are useful though, some like alcohol interlocks are dumb, will trigger too many false positives or are easily circumvented. Compliance by 2024 is actually a hidden subsidy to the auto industry. How would they retrofit lane assist on an older vehicle? You'd have to buy a new one.

tdeck 6y ago

This idea goes back a long way. In 1923 42,000 Cincinnati residents petitioned for mandatory speed governors to limit cars to 25 miles per hour [1]. This was an era when pedestrians typically owned the streets, so the advent of high-speed traffic caused a lot of pedestrian deaths. 1: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-Cincinnati-speed-governor-referendum-frightened-motordom-into-organizing-to-reshape_fig1_236825193 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-Cincinnati-speed-gov...

lmm 6y ago
You say that like high-speed traffic isn't still causing a lot of pedestrian deaths.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago

> very car should have a chip. Once you are in a speed limit - your car can't go faster. This is actually dangerous because people need the ability to use discretion. Suppose you're transporting a part to repair a machine which is causing a fatality every five seconds as long as it's offline. Getting there 20 seconds faster saves four lives. Do you still want a chip that prevents you from exceeding the speed limit? > Oh wait, this wont generate revenue - so it wont work. Never mind. This is a major reason why the US doesn't have many speed cameras either. Also why most of the speed limits are set 10-15 MPH below the ordinary speed of travel. If violations are prolific and enforcement is sporadic, they can generate fine revenue whenever they want. If enforcement is automatic then people figure that out and do what's necessary to avoid the fine, but then you're left with an expensive boondoggle that isn't generating revenue. It also deprives the police of the excuse they currently have to pull over cars at whim when everybody is speeding at all times, and they wouldn't be happy to lose that at all.

lordnacho 6y ago
Is that Homo Economicus driving the delivery truck? You'd expect a machine that saves a life every 5 seconds to have some kind of investment in redundancy. Either is spread over more machines or the wonder device has spare parts that are kept stocked. And if not, I'm sure parliament could pass a law to clear the streets for the day.
- Denvercoder9 6y ago
  It's a bad example, but there are legitimate scenarios where you want the ability to (temporarily) drive above the speed limit. E.g. speeding up until you can get out of the way of an ambulance, or to avoid getting rear-ended.
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  > Is that Homo Economicus driving the delivery truck? Is it too far of a leap to expect that someone who knows they're doing something where lives are at risk and time is of the essence will rightly estimate that the optimal travel speed is in excess of the ordinary speed at which accountants commute to their office buildings? > You'd expect a machine that saves a life every 5 seconds to have some kind of investment in redundancy. Either is spread over more machines or the wonder device has spare parts that are kept stocked. You might think that, but in reality, humans are fallible and don't always have perfect foresight. Maybe they had a spare on site, but the spare was defective, or was the wrong revision number and incompatible. Maybe the part is a filter, but the problem is that there are a hundred times more pollutants than normal, so they already used all their spare filters and need twenty more ASAP. Maybe the machine is the backup generator for a hospital, which was damaged by the same lightning strike that caused the power outage. > And if not, I'm sure parliament could pass a law to clear the streets for the day. The scenario is the machine goes offline so the company immediately calls the shop with the part who immediately leaves to deliver it. It's a five minute drive at the speed limit, but meaningfully less if you exceed it. The police response time is six minutes, they can't help you. Your suggestion is for parliament to enact legislation in that amount of time?

andylynch 6y ago

It’s common for trucks here to be governed to 70mph with a sign on the back saying so. Pretty sure it’s an insurance thing. Recently I’ve seen the odd ones mentioning 40mph in town too.

Ichthypresbyter 6y ago

GPS isn't good enough for that yet. I have received warnings from my GPS because it thought I was driving at 70 mph in a 20 mph limit. In fact, I was driving at 70 mph on a motorway flyover above a residential street that had a 20 mph limit. If it had been able to cut the engine (or, worse, apply the brakes) then that could have produced a dangerous situation.

vixen99 6y ago

There are situations in which that might be dangerous. On the other hand cars could be fixed (via the chip) with external and internal warning signals to show the world and driver that a speed limit has been exceeded. This might constitute a psychological barrier to breaking the limit when everyone around you knows you're in the wrong.