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Illegal search and seizure can often result in unlawful prosecution.

by lumost 6y ago

otterley 6y ago
We already have a remedy for unlawful search and seizure: exclusion of evidence. Google “fruit of the poisonous tree” to learn more.
- mtgx 6y ago
  The fbi does it s lot these days and gets away with it. Actually the latest FISA renewal gives FBI and 16 other gov agencies access to full raw internet data and they can search it all they want...but they need a warrant to bring it to court. However, by now they've become experts at parallel construction and they usually outsmart judges and even defence attorneys on technical issues.
- tharne 6y ago
  That's only a partial remedy. Having your home illegally searched is not made right simply because anything found during that search can't be used to prosecute you. You still had you home and privacy violated.
- jcranmer 6y ago
  Until parallel construction kicks in and the police find some way to introduce the unlawful evidence anyways.
  - otterley 6y ago
    Parallel construction does not mean the evidence gets to be introduced. Other evidence collected by other lawful means would have to be obtained. Parallel construction refers to the act of lawfully collecting other (perhaps similar) evidence from a different source, the existence of which was revealed by the previous unlawful search. In any event, it’s a relatively rare phenomenon, and if you find yourself in trouble with the law, follow the ACLU’s advice regarding your rights, and don’t skimp on a criminal lawyer.
    - harimau777 6y ago
      If I have to pay a ton of money for a lawyer that strikes me as itself being a violation of my rights. A system where you are only protected if you pay isn't justice, it's a protection racket.
      - otterley 6y ago
        It’s not a protection racket, because the person you’re paying isn’t the person who would otherwise threaten you. And an attorney cannot represent both sides. That’s like Professional Ethics rule number one. Besides, the government doesn’t have the time or resources to criminally prosecute most minor violations of the law. If you end up in a position where you need a criminal lawyer, it’s rather likely you did something really foolish to attract enforcement attention. And if you can’t afford an attorney, you can always take your chances with a public defender. But I wouldn’t recommend it.
        lumost 6y ago
        At least in the US, this view seems misinformed. The US holds 24% of the worlds prison population and imprisons .7% of its population. An unfortunate reality is that US law enforcement tends to be selective in its enforcement and prosecution based on geography and class. A college student may get a slap on the wrist(expulsion) for a drug offense while a street kid goes to jail.
        otterley 6y ago
        These figures don’t change my advice at all. Punishment and procedure are two separate subjects. If you think the punishments the US imposes are severe, that’s an even greater incentive not to commit crimes you can’t afford to defend yourself against. And the vast majority of prisoners aren’t being convicted and sentenced due to parallel construction or other such trickery. In most cases, they’re the result of a garden-variety guilty plea, often to crimes of lesser severity or magnitude than the original charges.
  - mlindner 6y ago
    Yes parallel construction is of a concern, but that's not what parallel construction is. Parallel construction is where they use the illegally gained evidence to figure out who they can get legal search warrants against to gain additional legally gained evidence. The illegally gained evidence itself never gets used in court.
giantg2 6y ago
It's not supposed to. If that's happening, it's likely due to incompetent people in power as officers, judges, and prosecutors (my experiences). And it will continue to happen.

Illegal search and seizure can often result in unlawful prosecution.

by lumost 6y ago

Illegal search and seizure can often result in unlawful prosecution.

We already have a remedy for unlawful search and seizure: exclusion of evidence. Google “fruit of the poisonous tree” to learn more.

mtgx 6y ago
The fbi does it s lot these days and gets away with it. Actually the latest FISA renewal gives FBI and 16 other gov agencies access to full raw internet data and they can search it all they want...but they need a warrant to bring it to court. However, by now they've become experts at parallel construction and they usually outsmart judges and even defence attorneys on technical issues.
tharne 6y ago
That's only a partial remedy. Having your home illegally searched is not made right simply because anything found during that search can't be used to prosecute you. You still had you home and privacy violated.
jcranmer 6y ago
Until parallel construction kicks in and the police find some way to introduce the unlawful evidence anyways.
- otterley 6y ago
  Parallel construction does not mean the evidence gets to be introduced. Other evidence collected by other lawful means would have to be obtained. Parallel construction refers to the act of lawfully collecting other (perhaps similar) evidence from a different source, the existence of which was revealed by the previous unlawful search. In any event, it’s a relatively rare phenomenon, and if you find yourself in trouble with the law, follow the ACLU’s advice regarding your rights, and don’t skimp on a criminal lawyer.
  - harimau777 6y ago
    If I have to pay a ton of money for a lawyer that strikes me as itself being a violation of my rights. A system where you are only protected if you pay isn't justice, it's a protection racket.
    - otterley 6y ago
      It’s not a protection racket, because the person you’re paying isn’t the person who would otherwise threaten you. And an attorney cannot represent both sides. That’s like Professional Ethics rule number one. Besides, the government doesn’t have the time or resources to criminally prosecute most minor violations of the law. If you end up in a position where you need a criminal lawyer, it’s rather likely you did something really foolish to attract enforcement attention. And if you can’t afford an attorney, you can always take your chances with a public defender. But I wouldn’t recommend it.
      - lumost 6y ago
        At least in the US, this view seems misinformed. The US holds 24% of the worlds prison population and imprisons .7% of its population. An unfortunate reality is that US law enforcement tends to be selective in its enforcement and prosecution based on geography and class. A college student may get a slap on the wrist(expulsion) for a drug offense while a street kid goes to jail.
        otterley 6y ago
        These figures don’t change my advice at all. Punishment and procedure are two separate subjects. If you think the punishments the US imposes are severe, that’s an even greater incentive not to commit crimes you can’t afford to defend yourself against. And the vast majority of prisoners aren’t being convicted and sentenced due to parallel construction or other such trickery. In most cases, they’re the result of a garden-variety guilty plea, often to crimes of lesser severity or magnitude than the original charges.
- mlindner 6y ago
  Yes parallel construction is of a concern, but that's not what parallel construction is. Parallel construction is where they use the illegally gained evidence to figure out who they can get legal search warrants against to gain additional legally gained evidence. The illegally gained evidence itself never gets used in court.

giantg2 6y ago

It's not supposed to. If that's happening, it's likely due to incompetent people in power as officers, judges, and prosecutors (my experiences). And it will continue to happen.