7 ms·

I hear a lot of talk surrounding their "moat" and many skeptics are questioning whether or not they will be able to maintain their competitive advantage. Howeve

I hear a lot of talk surrounding their "moat" and many skeptics are questioning whether or not they will be able to maintain their competitive advantage. However, it feels like Airbnb has solved a truly hard problem: how to make people trust your service. People are using this app to go stay in random people's homes. How often do you hear people talk about being murdered in uber? I still hear it. How often do you hear it for Airbnb? I haven't heard someone express that worry yet. They've solved the trust and the brand issue, and _that_ is their moat.

whimsicalism 6y ago
I feel like this is not some great engineering feat with Airbnb and has much more to do with classism and the type of person who typically owns that beautiful vacation home you want to stay in.
- ngold 6y ago
  I guess it would be more like renting someone's fancy car for a weekend.
- FruityCoconut 6y ago
  Also you're unlikely to see the owner, they certainly won't be inside with you, you can leave any time, you're likely to be with others, and they can't change your location. Contrast that with an intoxicated young woman climbing alone into a stranger's car where he has a lot of control - including being able to lock the doors or take her to a remote/unfamiliar location. Even with all the checks and measures in place, assaults are not uncommon; I'm not familiar with any AirBnB type assaults (far more frequently, it's the guests victimising the owner via property damage).
  - WanderPanda 6y ago
    > they certainly won't be inside with you Not true, we once stayed in Pisa, Italy, and the (absolutely messy) appartment was shared with the host and her son. It was quite awkward at times but we still enjoyed the stay
    - gorbypark 6y ago
      Many years back I stayed in Melbourne, Australia with a lovely Chinese speaking elderly couple. They made me lunch, I have no idea what it was but it was delicious! I think it was much more common to rent an extra room back when Airbnb was relatively new.
      - whimsicalism 6y ago
        Still very common. My parents are AirBnB "super hosts" and they live in the basement due to regulatory requirements that are common in pricey American cities.
      - borroka 6y ago
        My best Airbnb experience was my first one 4 years ago, when with a partner I booked a room in a house with the owner living in. We had a tremendous time, we had bbq one night together, it was an enjoyable not planned semi-communal experience. Nowadays, the experience Airbnb offers is mostly that of a poorly managed hotel that has properties all over the world. It can be worthwhile when traveling in groups, but otherwise I tend to prefer hotels.
      - therealx 6y ago
        I think the host caliber was much different then too. The professional AirBNB people had not setup shop.
    - jbverschoor 6y ago
      "once" :-)
    - therealx 6y ago
      I had a similar situation. I was very weary at first, but it was one of the best trips I had in a while. I still keep in touch with the hostess.
- almost_usual 6y ago
  Airbnb is not a tech company, it’s a hospitality company. From what I’ve heard the tech is mediocre at best there. Doesn’t matter though, the brand is what people pay for and what drives hype.
- an_opabinia 6y ago
  > has much more to do with classism You're right but I think that's an unfair way to put the fact that two rich people can get a remedy from each other without the law, but a rich person only gets remedies from poor people through the law. The better comparison is Airbnb versus CouchSurfing or TrustedHouseSitters. All three use unused space in your home in exchange for something of psychological and monetary value, including some things Paul Graham said were important to Airbnb - like the psychic pleasure of having guests over. The difference is that TrustedHouseSitters sitters and CouchSurfing surfers are disproportionately completely broke, so if they go and they break your rich person coffee machine, what are you going to do? Get money from the guest? You'll never use THS again. Retention is 0% after the first incident. The private equity firm that owns THS isn't going to make you whole, the insurance they give has a $1,000 minimum, the requirements are onerous, etc. When I break something in an Airbnb, I pay every time. When they fuck up the parking and I get towed, the Airbnb paid. So we both keep using the service. Michael Sandel talked big talk about Airbnb monetized something that used to be generously gifted, but he omitted the special math of how rich people exchanging stuff with each other results in that thing being utilized 10,000% more, simply because it is sustainable in the sense of people retaining and not hitting the home button, and he never really talked about, ironically, the lack of justice when people break or steal your shit and there is simply no remedy.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    > When I break something in an Airbnb, I pay every time. When they fuck up the parking and I get towed, the Airbnb paid. So we both keep using the service. This seems very orthogonal to concerns about being murdered. > Michael Sandel talked big talk about Airbnb monetized something that used to be generously gifted, but he omitted the special math of how rich people exchanging stuff with each other results in that thing being utilized 10,000% more, simply because it is sustainable in the sense of people retaining and not hitting the home button, and he never really talked about, ironically, the lack of justice when people break or steal your shit and there is simply no remedy. I'm sorry, I honestly don't really understand. I'm assuming you're discussing Sandel's recent work on what he sees as the moral limits around markets. You're saying that markets provide a recourse for property damage, which makes them more just? That, again, seems unrelated - no reason you can't have recourse for property damage even if you are letting someone stay in your house free of charge. I also just think the narrative you're spinning is sort of misleading. Rich people overwhelmingly do have remedies for wrongs and have the capacity to pursue legal action.
bjarneh 6y ago
> How often do you hear people talk about being murdered in uber? I still hear it. How often do you hear it for Airbnb? I haven't heard someone express that worry yet. Only in the US: They've solved one of the hardest problems, not being murdered while using their service....
- VectorLock 6y ago
  >How often do you hear it for Airbnb? I've heard a lot of potential hosts not do airbnb for worry of things like guests having massive parties, making drugs, destroying things, etc.
  - madaxe_again 6y ago
    I’ve been running two airbnbs for two years, with over 1000 nights hosted, and I’ve had none of those things. The worst that’s happened is a guest broke a chair, which they apologised over and paid for. People are generally decent.
    - 11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
      Some evidence of that would be that AirBnb has been growing for almost 15 years. If people were not generally decent, the business would never have scaled to this level.
    - VectorLock 6y ago
      My neighbor let his apartment out on AirBNB and the people who stayed there started a fire in the fireplace and didn't open the flue. I had to crawl out a smoke filled hallway.
- richthegeek 6y ago
  British person here: I get where you're coming from, sorta, but it's a pretty bad take... Uber has had their license revoked and returned repeatedly in London for the last few years because they have such a terrible reputation for consumer safety - instances of girls being assaulted by drivers, and insufficient protection by Uber after that. Sure, not murder, but still pretty bad.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
tudorizer 6y ago
There are plenty of horror stories, even if not directly murder. Rending out a nice, luxurious/novel holiday home is the story they sell, but that's far from the bulk. They enable a secondary, dodgy market in a lot of towns around the world.
- dorchadas 6y ago
  A market that's driving out long-term rentals and causing lots of issues for the people who actually live in the towns as well.
nrmitchi 6y ago
> How often do you hear it for Airbnb? I haven't heard someone express that worry yet. I think the "not getting murdered" but is more to do with the demographic of people who are "hosts" with the service that they offer (which are mostly whole-homes). It is just at a higher price point that doesn't match the stereotype of "murderous Uber driver". If someone did "something" it's a lot riskier to kill someone in a property that you own vs a moving vehicle. I'm not saying that stereotype is valid in any way, Uber<->Airbnb isn't really a valid comparison there. That being said, I have 100% heard both stories and concerns about people's privacy being violated in Airbnb's. Hidden cameras, nosey "hosts", etc. That's not even including the trust issues around "I showed up and the host won't let me in and Airbnb is not being helpful, what am I supposed to do now?". Those trust issues definitely still exist.
itronitron 6y ago
I've had better experiences with VRBO than AirBnB
- giarc 6y ago
  I find many properties are posted on both sites, then it comes down to fees, for which I feel Airbnb's are much higher.
- oldprogrammer2 6y ago
  Agree, largely because AirBnB tends to have higher platform and cleaning fees. I also have a hard time understanding why AirBnB is treated as crown jewel of success for using $6 billion in raised capital and more than 6,000 employees to copy what VRBO already did well (and with substantially less resources). (Honestly, I would like to understand this, if someone can explain it to me).
- beamatronic 6y ago
  Same, it's been great. I've mostly used it for renting large homes in Tahoe.
andy_ppp 6y ago
I’ve had nothing but bad experiences with Airbnb and hosts who are basically trying to rinse as much money as possible for as little effort as possible. I’m not sure after a long journey I want to wonder around the Edinburgh fringe again, trying to decipher Scottish, while the wind is going crazy and there are millions of people floating around just to get keys. I think Airbnb is great if there are 15 of you sharing a flat but a lot less good if you’re a couple who want their lives to be simple. I really do not get why it’s so popular, it’s barely cheaper than a hotel after cleaning and service fees - and 100% less convenient.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- iandanforth 6y ago
  Because I've had the opposite experience would you be willing to share how you pick places? I rent: "Whole places", with a strong bias towards detached buildings, that rate 4.7 or higher on their scale, and have glowing reviews that mention how nice the host is. These are almost always $90/night or more, with an average of $120/night.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    I have stayed at "conventional" B&B's that I've noticed apparently also list on AirBnB and they've been fine. I think a general point whether we're talking renting a room/apartment, ordering online FBA, etc. is that a lot of people bargain hunt. While that often works out, there's also a reason for the saying that if something looks too good to be true, there's a good chance you're going to get burned.
  - andy_ppp 6y ago
    I’m not sure, now that I can afford a nicer place I usually book a hotel due to my previous experience. Maybe I should increase my price ranges and try again, but the key problem just means I really cannot be bothered. If they had places around town to get the keys from I’d be much more likely to use it again. Having said that places usually are over £90 per night but this is very place dependant.
tempsy 6y ago
There was a very big story last Halloween about an Airbnb house party in Orinda, CA that resulted in a mass shooting and 5 deaths. That started their crack down on house parties.
thedz 6y ago
> They've solved the trust and the brand issue, and _that_ is their moat. I think they've solved it better than their competitors, but I'm not sure that they've solved it broadly for people using hospitality services. For better or worse, one bad experience tends to sour people that I've talked to on the overall host-driven places to stay. Whereas for hotels and other more traditional forms, that seems to be compartmentalized to specific locations ("ugh, the hilton in boston") or chains ("I'm avoiding all Marriots from now on").
netsharc 6y ago
Don't they have a issue with scammers? https://www.vice.com/en/article/43k7z3/nationwide-fake-host-scam-on-airbnb https://www.vice.com/en/article/43k7z3/nationwide-fake-host-... . Although you got to love the ending, even after being scammed, the writer said she'd still use it: > I can’t say I’ll be leaving the platform, either. Dealing with Airbnb’s easily exploitable and occasionally crazy-making system is still just a bit cheaper than renting a hotel. And also dicking around renters when shit does go bad? (Typical example: host says $2000 in damages. AirBnB offers $200. Deliberately frustrate host with weeks/months of back and forth "negotiation". End with an offer of $500, host gives up and take it. Hey hey, $1500 saved!)
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
BoiledCabbage 6y ago
> I hear a lot of talk surrounding their "moat" and many skeptics are questioning whether or not they will be able to maintain their competitive advantage. Why do they need a moat? What happened to all the free market capitalism everyone believes in? Let the better company win out in true competition? Or is that just a taking point, and everyone actually believes in building moats to avoid competition?
- ghufran_syed 6y ago
  I think the unstated context is that “moats” might justify a higher stock valuation than otherwise, which is relevant because of the behavior of the stock on IPO
- prewett 6y ago
  A moat is what enables you to avoid being in a race-to-the-bottom commodity business. In a commodity business you get just enough returns to cover cost of capital plus a little bit. With a moat you can get 20% - 30% profit margins: Coca-Cola, Apple, Google. A moat is also what builds an enduring business. The moat is what prevents other people from just doing that same thing you are doing but at a lower price. A moat isn't rent seeking, it is (or at least can be) out-competing. The iPhone was a huge moat for Apple for many years; they were 2 years ahead of everyone when it came out, so much so that engineers at Microsoft and RIM both thought that the announced product was impossible. The M1 is similar, everyone is probably two years behind, if they can even catch up. (Eventually they will, because Apple probably can't ride the process improvements that long)
  - BoiledCabbage 6y ago
    A commodity business is the essence of free market capitalism. Every time you say you don't want to be in a commodity business, you're saying you don't believe in free market capitalism. You don't want competition.
tempsy 6y ago
shorting a stock in this market is a fool’s errand.
- dumbfounder 6y ago
  Jim Cramer was hilarious when talking about Tesla stock during Doordash's IPO. He said he was talking to a young person about Tesla and was asking them why they bought the stock. And they said "because it goes up! and I want to be rich!". He threw up his hands and said "how do you argue with that?".
GGfpc 6y ago
There seem to be quite a lot of news about hidden cameras in Airbnbs though
karmakaze 6y ago
I've had the displeasure of going through AirBnb dispute resolution process more than once, which was resolved in my favour once and not the other. Neither time did I think they did a good job of hearing the sides of the case and deciding on solid principles or written foundations. It's pretty much a matter of who sees it and makes a subjective call. It's also shocking that the first several tiers of customer support is seemingly run by volunteers (or otherwise ill-equipped people). The success of the trust and brand issue is largely due to the number of well meaning hosts far outnumbering the bad and AirBnb keeping the bad stories not get viral too often. The 'keep your rating high' has been around since eBay and could easily be copied. I wouldn't have a problem using a service that competed with AirBnb. What they have is a volume lead. People look there because that's where the listings are. Hosts list there because that's where people look.
- therealx 6y ago
  Their dispute process reminds me of credit card chargebacks. They don't read the info you produce most of the time and make a call based on what's best for the company. I hate it.
designium 6y ago
Not exactly true: https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/police-identify-three-men-killed-in-shooting-at-toronto-airbnb-condo-1.4793308 https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/police-identify-three-men-killed-...
dasudasu 6y ago
You do still hear about hidden cameras however. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/03/what-happens-when-you-find-cameras-your-airbnb/585007/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/03/what-...
- pfarnsworth 6y ago
  I scan my Airbnbs with my thermal camera to try to find hidden cameras. I'm pleased to say I've never found one yet.
IshKebab 6y ago
Is it though? There are plenty of other platforms that people don't think twice about booking on. Booking.com, Trivago, etc. Their real value is that when a lot of people think "I'll book somewhere", they now go to Airbnb first, much like when people think "I'll buy something" they go to Amazon first. But I think that's a fairly weak "moat" on the scale of things.
beamatronic 6y ago
I've rented a lot of homes with VRBO and never had any bad experiences. In my use-case I don't see what AirBnb offers over VRBO.
therealx 6y ago
Maybe not murder, but I know women hesitant to stay in AirBNBs due to the stories of hidden cameras.
zone411 6y ago
My friend had her whole house ruined with everything stolen (and then only received a fraction of the cost back because of bad record keeping). I don't think she'll be recommending hosting to anyone.

whimsicalism 6y ago

I feel like this is not some great engineering feat with Airbnb and has much more to do with classism and the type of person who typically owns that beautiful vacation home you want to stay in.

ngold 6y ago
I guess it would be more like renting someone's fancy car for a weekend.
FruityCoconut 6y ago
Also you're unlikely to see the owner, they certainly won't be inside with you, you can leave any time, you're likely to be with others, and they can't change your location. Contrast that with an intoxicated young woman climbing alone into a stranger's car where he has a lot of control - including being able to lock the doors or take her to a remote/unfamiliar location. Even with all the checks and measures in place, assaults are not uncommon; I'm not familiar with any AirBnB type assaults (far more frequently, it's the guests victimising the owner via property damage).
- WanderPanda 6y ago
  > they certainly won't be inside with you Not true, we once stayed in Pisa, Italy, and the (absolutely messy) appartment was shared with the host and her son. It was quite awkward at times but we still enjoyed the stay
  - gorbypark 6y ago
    Many years back I stayed in Melbourne, Australia with a lovely Chinese speaking elderly couple. They made me lunch, I have no idea what it was but it was delicious! I think it was much more common to rent an extra room back when Airbnb was relatively new.
    - whimsicalism 6y ago
      Still very common. My parents are AirBnB "super hosts" and they live in the basement due to regulatory requirements that are common in pricey American cities.
    - borroka 6y ago
      My best Airbnb experience was my first one 4 years ago, when with a partner I booked a room in a house with the owner living in. We had a tremendous time, we had bbq one night together, it was an enjoyable not planned semi-communal experience. Nowadays, the experience Airbnb offers is mostly that of a poorly managed hotel that has properties all over the world. It can be worthwhile when traveling in groups, but otherwise I tend to prefer hotels.
    - therealx 6y ago
      I think the host caliber was much different then too. The professional AirBNB people had not setup shop.
  - jbverschoor 6y ago
    "once" :-)
  - therealx 6y ago
    I had a similar situation. I was very weary at first, but it was one of the best trips I had in a while. I still keep in touch with the hostess.
almost_usual 6y ago
Airbnb is not a tech company, it’s a hospitality company. From what I’ve heard the tech is mediocre at best there. Doesn’t matter though, the brand is what people pay for and what drives hype.
an_opabinia 6y ago
> has much more to do with classism You're right but I think that's an unfair way to put the fact that two rich people can get a remedy from each other without the law, but a rich person only gets remedies from poor people through the law. The better comparison is Airbnb versus CouchSurfing or TrustedHouseSitters. All three use unused space in your home in exchange for something of psychological and monetary value, including some things Paul Graham said were important to Airbnb - like the psychic pleasure of having guests over. The difference is that TrustedHouseSitters sitters and CouchSurfing surfers are disproportionately completely broke, so if they go and they break your rich person coffee machine, what are you going to do? Get money from the guest? You'll never use THS again. Retention is 0% after the first incident. The private equity firm that owns THS isn't going to make you whole, the insurance they give has a $1,000 minimum, the requirements are onerous, etc. When I break something in an Airbnb, I pay every time. When they fuck up the parking and I get towed, the Airbnb paid. So we both keep using the service. Michael Sandel talked big talk about Airbnb monetized something that used to be generously gifted, but he omitted the special math of how rich people exchanging stuff with each other results in that thing being utilized 10,000% more, simply because it is sustainable in the sense of people retaining and not hitting the home button, and he never really talked about, ironically, the lack of justice when people break or steal your shit and there is simply no remedy.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  > When I break something in an Airbnb, I pay every time. When they fuck up the parking and I get towed, the Airbnb paid. So we both keep using the service. This seems very orthogonal to concerns about being murdered. > Michael Sandel talked big talk about Airbnb monetized something that used to be generously gifted, but he omitted the special math of how rich people exchanging stuff with each other results in that thing being utilized 10,000% more, simply because it is sustainable in the sense of people retaining and not hitting the home button, and he never really talked about, ironically, the lack of justice when people break or steal your shit and there is simply no remedy. I'm sorry, I honestly don't really understand. I'm assuming you're discussing Sandel's recent work on what he sees as the moral limits around markets. You're saying that markets provide a recourse for property damage, which makes them more just? That, again, seems unrelated - no reason you can't have recourse for property damage even if you are letting someone stay in your house free of charge. I also just think the narrative you're spinning is sort of misleading. Rich people overwhelmingly do have remedies for wrongs and have the capacity to pursue legal action.

bjarneh 6y ago

> How often do you hear people talk about being murdered in uber? I still hear it. How often do you hear it for Airbnb? I haven't heard someone express that worry yet. Only in the US: They've solved one of the hardest problems, not being murdered while using their service....

VectorLock 6y ago
>How often do you hear it for Airbnb? I've heard a lot of potential hosts not do airbnb for worry of things like guests having massive parties, making drugs, destroying things, etc.
- madaxe_again 6y ago
  I’ve been running two airbnbs for two years, with over 1000 nights hosted, and I’ve had none of those things. The worst that’s happened is a guest broke a chair, which they apologised over and paid for. People are generally decent.
  - 11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
    Some evidence of that would be that AirBnb has been growing for almost 15 years. If people were not generally decent, the business would never have scaled to this level.
  - VectorLock 6y ago
    My neighbor let his apartment out on AirBNB and the people who stayed there started a fire in the fireplace and didn't open the flue. I had to crawl out a smoke filled hallway.
richthegeek 6y ago
British person here: I get where you're coming from, sorta, but it's a pretty bad take... Uber has had their license revoked and returned repeatedly in London for the last few years because they have such a terrible reputation for consumer safety - instances of girls being assaulted by drivers, and insufficient protection by Uber after that. Sure, not murder, but still pretty bad.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

tudorizer 6y ago

There are plenty of horror stories, even if not directly murder. Rending out a nice, luxurious/novel holiday home is the story they sell, but that's far from the bulk. They enable a secondary, dodgy market in a lot of towns around the world.

dorchadas 6y ago
A market that's driving out long-term rentals and causing lots of issues for the people who actually live in the towns as well.

nrmitchi 6y ago

> How often do you hear it for Airbnb? I haven't heard someone express that worry yet. I think the "not getting murdered" but is more to do with the demographic of people who are "hosts" with the service that they offer (which are mostly whole-homes). It is just at a higher price point that doesn't match the stereotype of "murderous Uber driver". If someone did "something" it's a lot riskier to kill someone in a property that you own vs a moving vehicle. I'm not saying that stereotype is valid in any way, Uber<->Airbnb isn't really a valid comparison there. That being said, I have 100% heard both stories and concerns about people's privacy being violated in Airbnb's. Hidden cameras, nosey "hosts", etc. That's not even including the trust issues around "I showed up and the host won't let me in and Airbnb is not being helpful, what am I supposed to do now?". Those trust issues definitely still exist.

itronitron 6y ago

I've had better experiences with VRBO than AirBnB

giarc 6y ago
I find many properties are posted on both sites, then it comes down to fees, for which I feel Airbnb's are much higher.
oldprogrammer2 6y ago
Agree, largely because AirBnB tends to have higher platform and cleaning fees. I also have a hard time understanding why AirBnB is treated as crown jewel of success for using $6 billion in raised capital and more than 6,000 employees to copy what VRBO already did well (and with substantially less resources). (Honestly, I would like to understand this, if someone can explain it to me).
beamatronic 6y ago
Same, it's been great. I've mostly used it for renting large homes in Tahoe.

andy_ppp 6y ago

I’ve had nothing but bad experiences with Airbnb and hosts who are basically trying to rinse as much money as possible for as little effort as possible. I’m not sure after a long journey I want to wonder around the Edinburgh fringe again, trying to decipher Scottish, while the wind is going crazy and there are millions of people floating around just to get keys. I think Airbnb is great if there are 15 of you sharing a flat but a lot less good if you’re a couple who want their lives to be simple. I really do not get why it’s so popular, it’s barely cheaper than a hotel after cleaning and service fees - and 100% less convenient.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
iandanforth 6y ago
Because I've had the opposite experience would you be willing to share how you pick places? I rent: "Whole places", with a strong bias towards detached buildings, that rate 4.7 or higher on their scale, and have glowing reviews that mention how nice the host is. These are almost always $90/night or more, with an average of $120/night.
- ghaff 6y ago
  I have stayed at "conventional" B&B's that I've noticed apparently also list on AirBnB and they've been fine. I think a general point whether we're talking renting a room/apartment, ordering online FBA, etc. is that a lot of people bargain hunt. While that often works out, there's also a reason for the saying that if something looks too good to be true, there's a good chance you're going to get burned.
- andy_ppp 6y ago
  I’m not sure, now that I can afford a nicer place I usually book a hotel due to my previous experience. Maybe I should increase my price ranges and try again, but the key problem just means I really cannot be bothered. If they had places around town to get the keys from I’d be much more likely to use it again. Having said that places usually are over £90 per night but this is very place dependant.

tempsy 6y ago

There was a very big story last Halloween about an Airbnb house party in Orinda, CA that resulted in a mass shooting and 5 deaths. That started their crack down on house parties.

thedz 6y ago

> They've solved the trust and the brand issue, and _that_ is their moat. I think they've solved it better than their competitors, but I'm not sure that they've solved it broadly for people using hospitality services. For better or worse, one bad experience tends to sour people that I've talked to on the overall host-driven places to stay. Whereas for hotels and other more traditional forms, that seems to be compartmentalized to specific locations ("ugh, the hilton in boston") or chains ("I'm avoiding all Marriots from now on").

netsharc 6y ago

Don't they have a issue with scammers? https://www.vice.com/en/article/43k7z3/nationwide-fake-host-scam-on-airbnb https://www.vice.com/en/article/43k7z3/nationwide-fake-host-... . Although you got to love the ending, even after being scammed, the writer said she'd still use it: > I can’t say I’ll be leaving the platform, either. Dealing with Airbnb’s easily exploitable and occasionally crazy-making system is still just a bit cheaper than renting a hotel. And also dicking around renters when shit does go bad? (Typical example: host says $2000 in damages. AirBnB offers $200. Deliberately frustrate host with weeks/months of back and forth "negotiation". End with an offer of $500, host gives up and take it. Hey hey, $1500 saved!)

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

BoiledCabbage 6y ago

> I hear a lot of talk surrounding their "moat" and many skeptics are questioning whether or not they will be able to maintain their competitive advantage. Why do they need a moat? What happened to all the free market capitalism everyone believes in? Let the better company win out in true competition? Or is that just a taking point, and everyone actually believes in building moats to avoid competition?

ghufran_syed 6y ago
I think the unstated context is that “moats” might justify a higher stock valuation than otherwise, which is relevant because of the behavior of the stock on IPO
prewett 6y ago
A moat is what enables you to avoid being in a race-to-the-bottom commodity business. In a commodity business you get just enough returns to cover cost of capital plus a little bit. With a moat you can get 20% - 30% profit margins: Coca-Cola, Apple, Google. A moat is also what builds an enduring business. The moat is what prevents other people from just doing that same thing you are doing but at a lower price. A moat isn't rent seeking, it is (or at least can be) out-competing. The iPhone was a huge moat for Apple for many years; they were 2 years ahead of everyone when it came out, so much so that engineers at Microsoft and RIM both thought that the announced product was impossible. The M1 is similar, everyone is probably two years behind, if they can even catch up. (Eventually they will, because Apple probably can't ride the process improvements that long)
- BoiledCabbage 6y ago
  A commodity business is the essence of free market capitalism. Every time you say you don't want to be in a commodity business, you're saying you don't believe in free market capitalism. You don't want competition.

tempsy 6y ago

shorting a stock in this market is a fool’s errand.

dumbfounder 6y ago
Jim Cramer was hilarious when talking about Tesla stock during Doordash's IPO. He said he was talking to a young person about Tesla and was asking them why they bought the stock. And they said "because it goes up! and I want to be rich!". He threw up his hands and said "how do you argue with that?".

GGfpc 6y ago

There seem to be quite a lot of news about hidden cameras in Airbnbs though

karmakaze 6y ago

I've had the displeasure of going through AirBnb dispute resolution process more than once, which was resolved in my favour once and not the other. Neither time did I think they did a good job of hearing the sides of the case and deciding on solid principles or written foundations. It's pretty much a matter of who sees it and makes a subjective call. It's also shocking that the first several tiers of customer support is seemingly run by volunteers (or otherwise ill-equipped people). The success of the trust and brand issue is largely due to the number of well meaning hosts far outnumbering the bad and AirBnb keeping the bad stories not get viral too often. The 'keep your rating high' has been around since eBay and could easily be copied. I wouldn't have a problem using a service that competed with AirBnb. What they have is a volume lead. People look there because that's where the listings are. Hosts list there because that's where people look.

therealx 6y ago
Their dispute process reminds me of credit card chargebacks. They don't read the info you produce most of the time and make a call based on what's best for the company. I hate it.

designium 6y ago

Not exactly true: https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/police-identify-three-men-killed-in-shooting-at-toronto-airbnb-condo-1.4793308 https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/police-identify-three-men-killed-...

dasudasu 6y ago

You do still hear about hidden cameras however. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/03/what-happens-when-you-find-cameras-your-airbnb/585007/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/03/what-...

pfarnsworth 6y ago
I scan my Airbnbs with my thermal camera to try to find hidden cameras. I'm pleased to say I've never found one yet.

IshKebab 6y ago

Is it though? There are plenty of other platforms that people don't think twice about booking on. Booking.com, Trivago, etc. Their real value is that when a lot of people think "I'll book somewhere", they now go to Airbnb first, much like when people think "I'll buy something" they go to Amazon first. But I think that's a fairly weak "moat" on the scale of things.

beamatronic 6y ago

I've rented a lot of homes with VRBO and never had any bad experiences. In my use-case I don't see what AirBnb offers over VRBO.

therealx 6y ago

Maybe not murder, but I know women hesitant to stay in AirBNBs due to the stories of hidden cameras.

zone411 6y ago

My friend had her whole house ruined with everything stolen (and then only received a fraction of the cost back because of bad record keeping). I don't think she'll be recommending hosting to anyone.