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Apple is now building the chip it needs to ditch Qualcomm like it ditched Intel

42 points by kooskoos 6y ago

systemvoltage 6y ago
I don't know why people have such a strong reaction (either way) about Apple and its chips. Apple didn't invent vertical integration. This type of business model exists in every industry sector. The ROI calculation about whether to make something in-house or farm it out is pretty much SOP, and businesses act accordingly. Porsche makes their own engines but not their own tires.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Because they always have to speak about something, and most news outlets are American based, thus mostly blind to the actual market share Apple products have worldwide, so they do this industry projections as if it would affect the whole world.
  - xnyan 6y ago
    I’m far from an Apple booster but I think what it does is pretty relevant to the industry worldwide. They may have only like 20% of the market share worldwide but they make far more than half of all profits of smartphones sold worldwide.
    - Technically 6y ago
      They're also enormously wealthy and can swallow up however much of the top end of consumer markets they want. I'm not sure how you could ignore their presence anywhere but the bottom of the market.
- moistly 6y ago
  Crab bucket mentality.
- jpttsn 6y ago
  - In car magazines, we might expect to hear about that, too. - Apple has big impact.
cable2600 6y ago
First Apple used the MOS 6502 chip because it was $30 verses $300 for a Motorola 6800. That kept the Apple 1 down to $666.66 in price. Without that there would be no Apple. Cost cutting can mean making your own chips so you don't have to rely on a third party and also foil the Hackintosh makers.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  and also foil the Hackintosh makers They could have stopped that if they really wanted. My guess is as long as its not a commercial venture they just don't care.
xt00 6y ago
They will still be paying Qualcomm for licenses but likely they will target higher levels of integration and low power usage. Basically if Apple gets into this area they will say what are the things that matter with cellular tech.. data rates, power efficiency, and connection reliability. So they will target being superior on all fronts.
RantyDave 6y ago
Well, yeah. They didn't buy Intel's radio division for shits and giggles, did they?
- joezydeco 6y ago
  All about the patents, baby.
ideamotor 6y ago
I don't know how this fits in but if Apple were to: 1. Create it's own 5G/4G cellular network (buy one) 2. Put it on all it's devices 3. Bundle cellular network with cheapest iPhone with cheapest Apple Silicon MacBook A majority of U.S. college freshmen would bite and become entrenched in the Apple ecosystem, most for life would in turn could enable Apple to further lock everything down. I feel like the only thing that could stop this strategy would be regulators waking up (doubtful) or Microsoft saying 'no you can't run the endlessly pervasive Office Suite on Apple devices anymore' (also doubtful). Of course Apple might be unwilling to 'tarnish its brand' by offering all this bundled at a reasonable price and lose a little in the short term (likely).
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  No need to buy it's own network. They could be their own MVNO using someone like T-Mobile or ATT, and use eSIMs to provision service at purchase.
dhagz 6y ago
It's going to be interesting to see how this develops. Will they include their eventual cellular chip on their SoC? Will they then include that in Apple Silicon Macs (highly doubt this one, as nice as a cellular-enabled MacBook would be)? I'm expecting some decent improvements in efficiency, both in power usage and data transfer, whenever they get this spun up.
- Infinitesimus 6y ago
  I think they will include the chips across the entire lineup. Apple's strategy looks a bit like "what is the simplest experience for a the user" (with caveats of course) and one of those things is never having to look for connectivity when you're mobile. Not having to ask "what's your WiFi password?" again will be huge and people will trust Apple more than Google/MS with an always-connected system. Crazy future talk but you can imagine an "Apple Air" or a name like that which is a mesh network provided by Apple devices with partnerships from various ISPs and network providers. It will both provide a simple experience for their users and increase pressure to adopt their products in most urban areas. The world of eSIMs abstracts cell providers away from users since like Google Fi, apple will switch you to whatever is strongest on your area.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
exabrial 6y ago
Interesting. Is apple buying Arm on the books too?
- eldridgea 6y ago
  It's probably not completely off the table but unlikely in the near term since arm was just sold from SoftBank to Nvidia
avmich 6y ago
Interesting that vertical integration didn't save Intel - TSMC is considered more advanced in a specialized area. It's probably wrong to generalize here too soon, but it could be possible to make better Apple product than Apple does using less vertically integrated parts.

42 points by kooskoos 6y ago

I don't know why people have such a strong reaction (either way) about Apple and its chips. Apple didn't invent vertical integration. This type of business model exists in every industry sector. The ROI calculation about whether to make something in-house or farm it out is pretty much SOP, and businesses act accordingly. Porsche makes their own engines but not their own tires.

pjmlp 6y ago
Because they always have to speak about something, and most news outlets are American based, thus mostly blind to the actual market share Apple products have worldwide, so they do this industry projections as if it would affect the whole world.
- xnyan 6y ago
  I’m far from an Apple booster but I think what it does is pretty relevant to the industry worldwide. They may have only like 20% of the market share worldwide but they make far more than half of all profits of smartphones sold worldwide.
  - Technically 6y ago
    They're also enormously wealthy and can swallow up however much of the top end of consumer markets they want. I'm not sure how you could ignore their presence anywhere but the bottom of the market.
moistly 6y ago
Crab bucket mentality.
jpttsn 6y ago
- In car magazines, we might expect to hear about that, too. - Apple has big impact.

cable2600 6y ago

First Apple used the MOS 6502 chip because it was $30 verses $300 for a Motorola 6800. That kept the Apple 1 down to $666.66 in price. Without that there would be no Apple. Cost cutting can mean making your own chips so you don't have to rely on a third party and also foil the Hackintosh makers.

tonyedgecombe 6y ago
and also foil the Hackintosh makers They could have stopped that if they really wanted. My guess is as long as its not a commercial venture they just don't care.

xt00 6y ago

They will still be paying Qualcomm for licenses but likely they will target higher levels of integration and low power usage. Basically if Apple gets into this area they will say what are the things that matter with cellular tech.. data rates, power efficiency, and connection reliability. So they will target being superior on all fronts.

RantyDave 6y ago

Well, yeah. They didn't buy Intel's radio division for shits and giggles, did they?

joezydeco 6y ago
All about the patents, baby.

ideamotor 6y ago

I don't know how this fits in but if Apple were to: 1. Create it's own 5G/4G cellular network (buy one) 2. Put it on all it's devices 3. Bundle cellular network with cheapest iPhone with cheapest Apple Silicon MacBook A majority of U.S. college freshmen would bite and become entrenched in the Apple ecosystem, most for life would in turn could enable Apple to further lock everything down. I feel like the only thing that could stop this strategy would be regulators waking up (doubtful) or Microsoft saying 'no you can't run the endlessly pervasive Office Suite on Apple devices anymore' (also doubtful). Of course Apple might be unwilling to 'tarnish its brand' by offering all this bundled at a reasonable price and lose a little in the short term (likely).

toomuchtodo 6y ago
No need to buy it's own network. They could be their own MVNO using someone like T-Mobile or ATT, and use eSIMs to provision service at purchase.

dhagz 6y ago

It's going to be interesting to see how this develops. Will they include their eventual cellular chip on their SoC? Will they then include that in Apple Silicon Macs (highly doubt this one, as nice as a cellular-enabled MacBook would be)? I'm expecting some decent improvements in efficiency, both in power usage and data transfer, whenever they get this spun up.

Infinitesimus 6y ago
I think they will include the chips across the entire lineup. Apple's strategy looks a bit like "what is the simplest experience for a the user" (with caveats of course) and one of those things is never having to look for connectivity when you're mobile. Not having to ask "what's your WiFi password?" again will be huge and people will trust Apple more than Google/MS with an always-connected system. Crazy future talk but you can imagine an "Apple Air" or a name like that which is a mesh network provided by Apple devices with partnerships from various ISPs and network providers. It will both provide a simple experience for their users and increase pressure to adopt their products in most urban areas. The world of eSIMs abstracts cell providers away from users since like Google Fi, apple will switch you to whatever is strongest on your area.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

exabrial 6y ago

Interesting. Is apple buying Arm on the books too?

eldridgea 6y ago
It's probably not completely off the table but unlikely in the near term since arm was just sold from SoftBank to Nvidia

avmich 6y ago

Interesting that vertical integration didn't save Intel - TSMC is considered more advanced in a specialized area. It's probably wrong to generalize here too soon, but it could be possible to make better Apple product than Apple does using less vertically integrated parts.