5 ms·

So why not Ubuntu instead of Debian?

by bboozzoo 6y ago

Thaxll 6y ago
Debian runs old kernels.
- hiq 6y ago
  The current kernel on stable backports is 5.9.6: https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=linux%2Dimage%2Damd64 https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=linux%2Dimage%2D... Backports can be activated by adding one line to your sources. If I trust https://www.kernel.org/ https://www.kernel.org/, the last stable kernel version is 5.9.13, and according to https://kernelnewbies.org/LinuxChanges https://kernelnewbies.org/LinuxChanges, 5.9 has been released two months ago. There are plenty of reasons to criticize Debian, but that's not one of them.
- zozbot234 6y ago
  Debian provides up-to-date kernels in the stable-backports repository. You get a choice of what to run. And nowadays even the 'old' stable kernel is a LTS release so there's no support issue.
discreditable 6y ago
With Ubuntu, anything not in the main repo (universe, etc) doesn't get security updates. From personal experience, I've broken way more ubuntu installs on a release-upgrade than I have on debian (zero).
- _-david-_ 6y ago
  Universe may receive security updates. There is just no guarantee since they are not supported by Canonical.
corndoge 6y ago
Snaps
- bboozzoo 6y ago
  How does that prevent you from using Ubuntu as a server with docker or something else of your choosing?
- gvb 6y ago
  Remove snaps: sudo apt-get remove snapd sudo apt-get remove lxd-agent-loader # 20.04 The key to keeping them uninstalled is to pin the packages so they don't get "upgraded," which results in them being reinstalled. sudo apt-mark hold snapd sudo apt-mark hold lxd-agent-loader # 20.04 If you want to go the next step in cleanup: sudo umount /var/lib/snapd/snaps/*.snap sudo rm -rvf /var/lib/snapd/* sudo rm -vf /etc/systemd/system/snap-*.mount sudo rm -vf /etc/systemd/system/snap-*.service sudo rm -vf /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/snap-*.mount sudo rm -vrf /snap/*
  - bboozzoo 6y ago
    There's apt-get purge or apt remove --purge to do those manual steps.
blacktulip 6y ago
I guess it is because Ubuntu is also corp-controlled (Canonical). Personally I use Ubuntu server. But it is much easier to migrate from Ubuntu to Debian than from CentOS to Debian.
sm4rk0 6y ago
Question from a current Ubuntu user that I also asked myself: Why Ubuntu instead of Debian?
- fulafel 6y ago
  There are definite advantages in running the same thing on servers as devs are running on laptops. (And some disadvantages.. but the balance ends up on the plus side)
  - marcosdumay 6y ago
    Why do people run Ubuntu on PCs? It's an everchanging, relatively buggy project, without upgrade support, and full of those weird choices (unity, phoning home) it tries to impose onto every user.
    - jkaplowitz 6y ago
      Commercial ISVs that target the desktops/laptops of gamers, consumers, and trendy cloud-focused startup devs are more likely to pick Ubuntu than Debian as a supported OS if they don't bother to support both. And Ubuntu makes it easier to trade off software freedom in favor of just having things work out if the box, though both provide ways to do so.
      - marcosdumay 6y ago
        I have had similar odds of stuffing working out of the installer on Ubuntu and Debian. The main difference is that in Ubuntu the fix usually involves removing some program that is messing with everything. While in Debian it usually involves adding some program that isn't installed by default for some reason. (Debian would gain a lot by making an installer with the backports kernel, by the way.)
        jkaplowitz 6y ago
        Heh, yeah. It sounds like you prefer Debian in general, and so do I - not only am I a Debian developer too, I'm typing this on my personal laptop running Debian. That said, sometimes I pick Ubuntu in a work context to be less of an oddball, since my work contexts tend to be the trendy cloud-focused tech startups where Ubuntu is comparatively common and I want to direct my day-job sysadmin energies toward my employers' infrastructure instead of my laptop. Despite that, at the company I'm helping to found as CTO, I may need to set a default of Windows in the short term: the story for using MS Office and screen sharing / other fancy features of Zoom on Linux isn't great, web dev on Windows is getting surprisingly good with things like WSL and VS Code, we don't already have a fleet of Intel-based Macs to use, and for now the new M1-based Macs are likely to demand workarounds for the CPU architecture on which we can't spend the necessary time at this extremely early stage of our corporate lifecycle. Macs will probably become a viable option for us again in a couple of years, and Debian / Ubuntu will probably be viable from day 1 for any technical employees who don't need the commercial software I listed above.
helloycombinat 6y ago
I use arch for my desktop (cutting edge libraries and api!) and debian for my servers (never fails). Ubuntu doesn't fit for me
eeZah7Ux 6y ago
Debian provides security support for way more packages and way longer. Also, Ubuntu adds some bloated software of dubious quality.
sm4rk0 6y ago
Ubuntu's opt-out data collection: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/base-files/+bug/1867424 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/base-files/+bug/18... https://ubuntu.com/legal/motd https://ubuntu.com/legal/motd
- iso1631 6y ago
  Looked at a server ssh I had open to an 1804 ubuntu, and on my desktop First thing /etc/update-motd.d/50-motd-news does is source /etc/default/motd-news if it exists Only if that file sets "ENABLED" to 1 will it do anything [ "$ENABLED" = "1" ] || exit 0 I haven't knowingly deleted that file, not sure how it opts in. Perhaps this line in my preseed removes popularity-contest popularity-contest/participate boolean false Notably though, with base-files 10.1ubuntu2.10 and $ dpkg -L base-files | grep motd-news /etc/update-motd.d/50-motd-news /lib/systemd/system/motd-news.service /lib/systemd/system/motd-news.timer There's a mention on the prerm about removing that conffile.

So why not Ubuntu instead of Debian?

Thaxll 6y ago

Debian runs old kernels.

hiq 6y ago
The current kernel on stable backports is 5.9.6: https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=linux%2Dimage%2Damd64 https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=linux%2Dimage%2D... Backports can be activated by adding one line to your sources. If I trust https://www.kernel.org/ https://www.kernel.org/, the last stable kernel version is 5.9.13, and according to https://kernelnewbies.org/LinuxChanges https://kernelnewbies.org/LinuxChanges, 5.9 has been released two months ago. There are plenty of reasons to criticize Debian, but that's not one of them.
zozbot234 6y ago
Debian provides up-to-date kernels in the stable-backports repository. You get a choice of what to run. And nowadays even the 'old' stable kernel is a LTS release so there's no support issue.

discreditable 6y ago

With Ubuntu, anything not in the main repo (universe, etc) doesn't get security updates. From personal experience, I've broken way more ubuntu installs on a release-upgrade than I have on debian (zero).

_-david-_ 6y ago
Universe may receive security updates. There is just no guarantee since they are not supported by Canonical.

corndoge 6y ago

Snaps

bboozzoo 6y ago
How does that prevent you from using Ubuntu as a server with docker or something else of your choosing?
gvb 6y ago
Remove snaps: sudo apt-get remove snapd sudo apt-get remove lxd-agent-loader # 20.04 The key to keeping them uninstalled is to pin the packages so they don't get "upgraded," which results in them being reinstalled. sudo apt-mark hold snapd sudo apt-mark hold lxd-agent-loader # 20.04 If you want to go the next step in cleanup: sudo umount /var/lib/snapd/snaps/*.snap sudo rm -rvf /var/lib/snapd/* sudo rm -vf /etc/systemd/system/snap-*.mount sudo rm -vf /etc/systemd/system/snap-*.service sudo rm -vf /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/snap-*.mount sudo rm -vrf /snap/*
- bboozzoo 6y ago
  There's apt-get purge or apt remove --purge to do those manual steps.

blacktulip 6y ago

I guess it is because Ubuntu is also corp-controlled (Canonical). Personally I use Ubuntu server. But it is much easier to migrate from Ubuntu to Debian than from CentOS to Debian.

sm4rk0 6y ago

Question from a current Ubuntu user that I also asked myself: Why Ubuntu instead of Debian?

fulafel 6y ago
There are definite advantages in running the same thing on servers as devs are running on laptops. (And some disadvantages.. but the balance ends up on the plus side)
- marcosdumay 6y ago
  Why do people run Ubuntu on PCs? It's an everchanging, relatively buggy project, without upgrade support, and full of those weird choices (unity, phoning home) it tries to impose onto every user.
  - jkaplowitz 6y ago
    Commercial ISVs that target the desktops/laptops of gamers, consumers, and trendy cloud-focused startup devs are more likely to pick Ubuntu than Debian as a supported OS if they don't bother to support both. And Ubuntu makes it easier to trade off software freedom in favor of just having things work out if the box, though both provide ways to do so.
    - marcosdumay 6y ago
      I have had similar odds of stuffing working out of the installer on Ubuntu and Debian. The main difference is that in Ubuntu the fix usually involves removing some program that is messing with everything. While in Debian it usually involves adding some program that isn't installed by default for some reason. (Debian would gain a lot by making an installer with the backports kernel, by the way.)
      - jkaplowitz 6y ago
        Heh, yeah. It sounds like you prefer Debian in general, and so do I - not only am I a Debian developer too, I'm typing this on my personal laptop running Debian. That said, sometimes I pick Ubuntu in a work context to be less of an oddball, since my work contexts tend to be the trendy cloud-focused tech startups where Ubuntu is comparatively common and I want to direct my day-job sysadmin energies toward my employers' infrastructure instead of my laptop. Despite that, at the company I'm helping to found as CTO, I may need to set a default of Windows in the short term: the story for using MS Office and screen sharing / other fancy features of Zoom on Linux isn't great, web dev on Windows is getting surprisingly good with things like WSL and VS Code, we don't already have a fleet of Intel-based Macs to use, and for now the new M1-based Macs are likely to demand workarounds for the CPU architecture on which we can't spend the necessary time at this extremely early stage of our corporate lifecycle. Macs will probably become a viable option for us again in a couple of years, and Debian / Ubuntu will probably be viable from day 1 for any technical employees who don't need the commercial software I listed above.

helloycombinat 6y ago

I use arch for my desktop (cutting edge libraries and api!) and debian for my servers (never fails). Ubuntu doesn't fit for me

eeZah7Ux 6y ago

Debian provides security support for way more packages and way longer. Also, Ubuntu adds some bloated software of dubious quality.

sm4rk0 6y ago

Ubuntu's opt-out data collection: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/base-files/+bug/1867424 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/base-files/+bug/18... https://ubuntu.com/legal/motd https://ubuntu.com/legal/motd

iso1631 6y ago
Looked at a server ssh I had open to an 1804 ubuntu, and on my desktop First thing /etc/update-motd.d/50-motd-news does is source /etc/default/motd-news if it exists Only if that file sets "ENABLED" to 1 will it do anything [ "$ENABLED" = "1" ] || exit 0 I haven't knowingly deleted that file, not sure how it opts in. Perhaps this line in my preseed removes popularity-contest popularity-contest/participate boolean false Notably though, with base-files 10.1ubuntu2.10 and $ dpkg -L base-files | grep motd-news /etc/update-motd.d/50-motd-news /lib/systemd/system/motd-news.service /lib/systemd/system/motd-news.timer There's a mention on the prerm about removing that conffile.