7 ms·

I'm getting kind of tired of all the news around Brexit where every change from the current state is being portrayed as either a huge loss or huge win for Brita

I'm getting kind of tired of all the news around Brexit where every change from the current state is being portrayed as either a huge loss or huge win for Britain. The world is in CONSTANT change and I couldn't care less how many jobs Morgan Stanley shifts out of the UK or how many offices Netflix opens in the UK. Things change. Instead of being anxious about every change we should be looking forward to the future, think about what we want it to look like and then regardless of what is happening around us now take baby steps towards that future which we want now. Honestly, the world as it stands now if complete full of bullshit. The idea of globalisation is bullshit. The idea that all countries in the EU have the same goal is bullshit. The idea that companies being able to register in the most tax friendly country in the EU, produce goods where factories are the cheapest and ship goods freely to where they can sell the highest is good for anyone except the execs of those companies is complete bullshit. None of the 4 freedoms of the EU is actually beneficial to regular people, who have no choice where to pay their tax or under which employment laws they want to be employed. The current status is bullshit so any change should be celebrated, even if it seems detrimental in the moment. Only change will get us to a better place, whatever that might look like and if it won't then at least it was worth trying. Life is too short to live in a pre-defined box for all our years and never be brave to do something crazy different. I'm not English, I was an immigrant my whole life wherever I was and maybe that made me see through the majority of bullshit or just tougher in my approach to life and realise that nothing is more depressing than not going through change.

mjburgess 6y ago
I'm getting tired of all the news around vaccines. Every change is being portrayed as either a huge loss or huge win. Things change, millions die. A virus is just a virus. We should look forward to a future with fewer people in it. What has vaccine medicine ever done for the average person? EDIT: this is sarcasm, obviously! The point is that the parent comment is making rhetorical generic points about "change", and "the future" which apply to any kind of change, including mass death. He neither references, nor provides, any evidence or substantive content that shows this change will be Good.
- arethuza 6y ago
  Stopped them getting one of many horrible diseases?
- asah 6y ago
  > What has vaccine medicine ever done for the average person. um... I actually know someone with polio, and of course I know many people with COVID.
  - mjburgess 6y ago
    ...exactly...
  - _Microft 6y ago
    The parent commenter might have alluded to "What Have The Romans Ever Done For Us": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ
x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago
Saying "the world is in change" doesn't do much when it's plain to see that Brexit is a net negative for the UK.
- mensetmanusman 6y ago
  Negative for some, positive for others. We will see.
HatchedLake721 6y ago
So you’re an immigrant who says none of the 4 freedoms are beneficial to regular people, when it looks like you personally used those freedoms - freedom of movement and possibly freedom to establish and provide services.
- dustinmoris 6y ago
  My parents moved from an Eastern European country to a Western European country before the 4 "freedoms" of the EU existed. They were as free as I am today to move from one place to another, settle and make a life for themselves. And they were not privileged at all. My other worked hard as a nurse, working more hours than the average person works today and my father was a waiter in a restaurant, always struggling, yet they had freedom to move to Belgium first and then they had the freedom to move to Austria to work and live there too, before the EU decided to give us "freedoms". I was born as a free human being and refuse to accept that the only reason why I was able to move to the UK is because the EU was so graceful to give me the freedom of movement. If I wanted to I could move to any other country in the world which isn't part of the EU as well, so clearly my freedom has nothing to do with the current 4 "freedoms".
  - HatchedLake721 6y ago
    I think you don't understand what those 4 freedoms mean and what freedom of movement exactly is, you take things for granted. No, just because "you were born a free human" (whatever you mean by this) you wouldn't be able to easily move to the UK if it was not for the freedom of movement. The only reason you were able to _easily_ immigrate to the UK is because of freedom of movement and UK being part of the single market. Speak with anyone trying to stay in the UK (being from outside the EU). I'll tell you a secret, it's very hard, and it costs money. It costs employers, who'll need to go through headache of sponsoring your visa, and it'll cost you, who'll need to pay to the Home Office if you want to stay. I have numerous friends and people I studied and worked with over the last 12 years in the UK that couldn't stay. They were from Russia, Australia, Ukraine, Saudi Arabia, etc. Every time I discussed with them their visa situation and attempts to stay in the country, I thanked god that where I emigrated from, we've joined the European Union and I don't have to deal with these issues. It's a nightmare. You, as a EU national, can look for a job and work here without a permit, you can reside here without a permit, you can stay here after studies or employment, and from legal point of view, you enjoy equal, non-discriminatory treatment with same rights and access to employment, working conditions, social & health security and tax advantages as UK citizens. No, you cannot have the same and "move to any other country in the world which isn't part of the EU as well, so clearly my freedom has nothing to do with the current 4 "freedoms"."
tim333 6y ago
There's good change and bad change though. I'm not sure brexit was the way to go.
lagolinguini 6y ago
I'm curious to know from you why you think the idea of globalisation is bullshit. As an immigrant such as yourself, I can't say I agree with you. Or perhaps our definitions of globalisation are not the same. In any case, I would like to hear why you think so.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- csomar 6y ago
  It is bullshit unless countries coordinate on wages and regulation. The EU (Italy/France) have let clandestine immigration go rampant so that their low-cost industry remains competitive. It also helps that these people have no papers and can be deported at a moment notice. It is slavery with some cash and with the benefit of blaming these people for all the problems they self-inflicted on themselves. It is why some countries are racist: Poland/Hungary are unfriendly to illegal immigrant because they don't need them. It is also why Italy has recently become strict with illegals: They don't need that many workers now, so they are not welcome and they are ramping up the extraditions. Illegal immigration is very easy to solve: You have all workers register with the government, you then put big fines (and jail) for those who hire non-registered people. But the current fines for hiring an illegal are a joke. You can simply pay the fine and hire another the same day and still be more profitable than going by the law.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > Illegal immigration is very easy to solve: You have all workers register with the government, you then put big fines (and jail) for those who hire non-registered people. That doesn’t solve illegal immigration, it just promotes illegal documentation forgery and illegal under-the-table employment on top of illegal immigration. OTOH, illegal immigration is easy to solve, you first align the numerical limits of your immigration system with demand by retaining only in-total and not per-country caps, and then, if you want a more complete solution, you make those caps soft caps instead of hard caps by allowing supernumerary immigrants that would be qualified but for numerical limits to temporarily reside while waiting in line for a regular slot (or just bypass the line entirely) by paying an annual (or, for the bypass mechanism, larger one-time) impact fee to address expected social costs. Now, the problem is that many people who say they want to “solve” illegal immigration don’t want to solve illegal immigration, they want to limit total immigration and, particularly, limit immigration of certain nationalities for which there is high immigration demand, and are using “illegality” as a cover.
csomar 6y ago
There is lots of B.S. on your own comment but I did stop here > None of the 4 freedoms of the EU is actually beneficial to regular people, who have no choice where to pay their tax or under which employment laws they want to be employed. The system is rigged to painfully screw the regular droid in the a. This seems to be the case for most of the developed world and especially the EU.

mjburgess 6y ago

I'm getting tired of all the news around vaccines. Every change is being portrayed as either a huge loss or huge win. Things change, millions die. A virus is just a virus. We should look forward to a future with fewer people in it. What has vaccine medicine ever done for the average person? EDIT: this is sarcasm, obviously! The point is that the parent comment is making rhetorical generic points about "change", and "the future" which apply to any kind of change, including mass death. He neither references, nor provides, any evidence or substantive content that shows this change will be Good.

arethuza 6y ago
Stopped them getting one of many horrible diseases?
asah 6y ago
> What has vaccine medicine ever done for the average person. um... I actually know someone with polio, and of course I know many people with COVID.
- mjburgess 6y ago
  ...exactly...
- _Microft 6y ago
  The parent commenter might have alluded to "What Have The Romans Ever Done For Us": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ

x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago

Saying "the world is in change" doesn't do much when it's plain to see that Brexit is a net negative for the UK.

mensetmanusman 6y ago
Negative for some, positive for others. We will see.

HatchedLake721 6y ago

So you’re an immigrant who says none of the 4 freedoms are beneficial to regular people, when it looks like you personally used those freedoms - freedom of movement and possibly freedom to establish and provide services.

dustinmoris 6y ago
My parents moved from an Eastern European country to a Western European country before the 4 "freedoms" of the EU existed. They were as free as I am today to move from one place to another, settle and make a life for themselves. And they were not privileged at all. My other worked hard as a nurse, working more hours than the average person works today and my father was a waiter in a restaurant, always struggling, yet they had freedom to move to Belgium first and then they had the freedom to move to Austria to work and live there too, before the EU decided to give us "freedoms". I was born as a free human being and refuse to accept that the only reason why I was able to move to the UK is because the EU was so graceful to give me the freedom of movement. If I wanted to I could move to any other country in the world which isn't part of the EU as well, so clearly my freedom has nothing to do with the current 4 "freedoms".
- HatchedLake721 6y ago
  I think you don't understand what those 4 freedoms mean and what freedom of movement exactly is, you take things for granted. No, just because "you were born a free human" (whatever you mean by this) you wouldn't be able to easily move to the UK if it was not for the freedom of movement. The only reason you were able to _easily_ immigrate to the UK is because of freedom of movement and UK being part of the single market. Speak with anyone trying to stay in the UK (being from outside the EU). I'll tell you a secret, it's very hard, and it costs money. It costs employers, who'll need to go through headache of sponsoring your visa, and it'll cost you, who'll need to pay to the Home Office if you want to stay. I have numerous friends and people I studied and worked with over the last 12 years in the UK that couldn't stay. They were from Russia, Australia, Ukraine, Saudi Arabia, etc. Every time I discussed with them their visa situation and attempts to stay in the country, I thanked god that where I emigrated from, we've joined the European Union and I don't have to deal with these issues. It's a nightmare. You, as a EU national, can look for a job and work here without a permit, you can reside here without a permit, you can stay here after studies or employment, and from legal point of view, you enjoy equal, non-discriminatory treatment with same rights and access to employment, working conditions, social & health security and tax advantages as UK citizens. No, you cannot have the same and "move to any other country in the world which isn't part of the EU as well, so clearly my freedom has nothing to do with the current 4 "freedoms"."

tim333 6y ago

There's good change and bad change though. I'm not sure brexit was the way to go.

lagolinguini 6y ago

I'm curious to know from you why you think the idea of globalisation is bullshit. As an immigrant such as yourself, I can't say I agree with you. Or perhaps our definitions of globalisation are not the same. In any case, I would like to hear why you think so.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
csomar 6y ago
It is bullshit unless countries coordinate on wages and regulation. The EU (Italy/France) have let clandestine immigration go rampant so that their low-cost industry remains competitive. It also helps that these people have no papers and can be deported at a moment notice. It is slavery with some cash and with the benefit of blaming these people for all the problems they self-inflicted on themselves. It is why some countries are racist: Poland/Hungary are unfriendly to illegal immigrant because they don't need them. It is also why Italy has recently become strict with illegals: They don't need that many workers now, so they are not welcome and they are ramping up the extraditions. Illegal immigration is very easy to solve: You have all workers register with the government, you then put big fines (and jail) for those who hire non-registered people. But the current fines for hiring an illegal are a joke. You can simply pay the fine and hire another the same day and still be more profitable than going by the law.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Illegal immigration is very easy to solve: You have all workers register with the government, you then put big fines (and jail) for those who hire non-registered people. That doesn’t solve illegal immigration, it just promotes illegal documentation forgery and illegal under-the-table employment on top of illegal immigration. OTOH, illegal immigration is easy to solve, you first align the numerical limits of your immigration system with demand by retaining only in-total and not per-country caps, and then, if you want a more complete solution, you make those caps soft caps instead of hard caps by allowing supernumerary immigrants that would be qualified but for numerical limits to temporarily reside while waiting in line for a regular slot (or just bypass the line entirely) by paying an annual (or, for the bypass mechanism, larger one-time) impact fee to address expected social costs. Now, the problem is that many people who say they want to “solve” illegal immigration don’t want to solve illegal immigration, they want to limit total immigration and, particularly, limit immigration of certain nationalities for which there is high immigration demand, and are using “illegality” as a cover.

csomar 6y ago

There is lots of B.S. on your own comment but I did stop here > None of the 4 freedoms of the EU is actually beneficial to regular people, who have no choice where to pay their tax or under which employment laws they want to be employed. The system is rigged to painfully screw the regular droid in the a. This seems to be the case for most of the developed world and especially the EU.