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That op-ed is anti-porn though. The only source is Exodus Cry, an evangelical group trying to shut down the entire sex industry. The author briefly mentions th

That op-ed is anti-porn though. The only source is Exodus Cry, an evangelical group trying to shut down the entire sex industry. The author briefly mentions the Internet Watch Foundation's objective stats and then dismisses it when they say they don't know why it's so low compared to Facebook and Twitter. Maybe because it just is? Why are Mastercard and Visa not "investigating" Facebook and other sites for allow child abuse uploads in the millions?

meowface 6y ago
Let's try to stay at the higher levels of Graham's hierarchy pyramid. What's the specific stat or claim you disagree with? If you read the article, you can see both the author and several interview subjects explicitly clarify severe times they're perfectly fine with porn, as long as it's of age and consensual. What's a source on Facebook having millions of child pornography videos? If they did, I'm sure NYT would report on them and Mastercard and Visa would investigate them, too.
- tomwill656 6y ago
  The author of the op-ed mentions the Internet Watch Foundations's stat of 118 csam cases over 3 years on PornHub, and then says he asked them why it's so low dimisses their objective stats and says they couldn't explain. Maybe it's because it IS low? The times did an actual investigation into the csam on Facebook and other big teach and it's a massive problem. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/09/28/us/child-sex-abuse.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/09/28/us/child-sex-... No Visa and Mastercard weren't forced in a moral panic to investigate.
  - meowface 6y ago
    >Facebook announced in March plans to encrypt Messenger, which last year was responsible for nearly 12 million of the 18.4 million worldwide reports of child sexual abuse material This suggests the majority of it was exchanged privately, which means it mostly may have been automatically detected by systems matching content hashes. On Pornhub, it's all available to the public rather than in private messages, which makes the problem a lot more evident and visible, and arguably more damaging (e.g. if you were raped as a child, you potentially may find it more damaging if one million people see the video compared to ten people). If Facebook hadn't taken appropriate measures, Visa and Mastercard certainly should have investigated them if they were in a position to. Another issue here is Pornhub is directly profiting off of the CSAM and non-consensual porn by plastering ads all over the page displaying the content and encouraging premium account registrations. Facebook isn't directly monetizing that content. Of course I know Pornhub isn't doing this deliberately, but 1) they're not financially incentivized to take things down too aggressively (due to loss of ad revenue and premium registrations), 2) even if they were incentivized to do it, the problem is too big and too evasive to tackle with just blacklisting, manual reporting, and a small team of moderators. The only workable solution at this point is a whitelist, which sensibly seems to be the approach they're now taking.
- athms 6y ago
  From Kristof's article: >Its site is infested with rape videos. Not illegal in the US. In fact, there is plenty of consensual porn made to look like women are being assaulted or coaxed into sex. > came across many videos on Pornhub that were recordings of assaults on unconscious women and girls. The rapists would open the eyelids of the victims and touch their eyeballs to show that they were nonresponsive. If I come upon an adult being assaulted, including sexually, and recorded the incident, this is perfectly legal in the US. That said, there is consensual porn that falls into this category, made by professional outfits. >It monetizes child rapes, revenge pornography, spy cam videos of women showering, racist and misogynist content, and footage of women being asphyxiated in plastic bags. It monetizes all content, even illegal content which hasn't been reviewed or reported. This is how it works for all sites that allow user generated content, including YouTube. Racist and misogynist content isn't illegal in the US. There are plenty of BDSM videos including footage of women being asphyxiated in plastic bags. You can find men and women with hot wax being poured on their genitalia or needles piercing their genitalia. You can find golden showers and scat too. None of that content is illegal in the US. >Unlike YouTube, Pornhub allows these videos to be downloaded directly from its website. Really? We all know this isn't true because of youtube-dl. Restricting downloads will not work for the determined. If the browser can see it, it can be downloaded. >A search for “girls under18” (no space) or “14yo” leads in each case to more than 100,000 videos. Most aren’t of children being assaulted, but too many are. By the author's own admission, most of the results were not true. Of those that have illegal content, report it. There is only so much a site can do to weed out illegal user generated content. PornHub doesn’t encourage illegal content or turns a blind eye to it. The company uses many of the automated tools that Microsoft and Google developed for fingerprinting pictures and videos of child pornography. >Depictions of child abuse also appear on mainstream sites like Twitter, Reddit and Facebook. You can find videos of adults beating children with all manner of household items. You can find videos of vehicles running over people with their twisted, mangled bodies laying in the street. You can find killings of rival gangs in Mexico and Brazil, or state executions in Iran and Iraq. None of this stuff is illegal in the US. It would be nice if the author focused on the illegal content, rather than the stuff he finds distasteful.
  - meowface 6y ago

meowface 6y ago

Let's try to stay at the higher levels of Graham's hierarchy pyramid. What's the specific stat or claim you disagree with? If you read the article, you can see both the author and several interview subjects explicitly clarify severe times they're perfectly fine with porn, as long as it's of age and consensual. What's a source on Facebook having millions of child pornography videos? If they did, I'm sure NYT would report on them and Mastercard and Visa would investigate them, too.

tomwill656 6y ago
The author of the op-ed mentions the Internet Watch Foundations's stat of 118 csam cases over 3 years on PornHub, and then says he asked them why it's so low dimisses their objective stats and says they couldn't explain. Maybe it's because it IS low? The times did an actual investigation into the csam on Facebook and other big teach and it's a massive problem. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/09/28/us/child-sex-abuse.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/09/28/us/child-sex-... No Visa and Mastercard weren't forced in a moral panic to investigate.
- meowface 6y ago
  >Facebook announced in March plans to encrypt Messenger, which last year was responsible for nearly 12 million of the 18.4 million worldwide reports of child sexual abuse material This suggests the majority of it was exchanged privately, which means it mostly may have been automatically detected by systems matching content hashes. On Pornhub, it's all available to the public rather than in private messages, which makes the problem a lot more evident and visible, and arguably more damaging (e.g. if you were raped as a child, you potentially may find it more damaging if one million people see the video compared to ten people). If Facebook hadn't taken appropriate measures, Visa and Mastercard certainly should have investigated them if they were in a position to. Another issue here is Pornhub is directly profiting off of the CSAM and non-consensual porn by plastering ads all over the page displaying the content and encouraging premium account registrations. Facebook isn't directly monetizing that content. Of course I know Pornhub isn't doing this deliberately, but 1) they're not financially incentivized to take things down too aggressively (due to loss of ad revenue and premium registrations), 2) even if they were incentivized to do it, the problem is too big and too evasive to tackle with just blacklisting, manual reporting, and a small team of moderators. The only workable solution at this point is a whitelist, which sensibly seems to be the approach they're now taking.
athms 6y ago
From Kristof's article: >Its site is infested with rape videos. Not illegal in the US. In fact, there is plenty of consensual porn made to look like women are being assaulted or coaxed into sex. > came across many videos on Pornhub that were recordings of assaults on unconscious women and girls. The rapists would open the eyelids of the victims and touch their eyeballs to show that they were nonresponsive. If I come upon an adult being assaulted, including sexually, and recorded the incident, this is perfectly legal in the US. That said, there is consensual porn that falls into this category, made by professional outfits. >It monetizes child rapes, revenge pornography, spy cam videos of women showering, racist and misogynist content, and footage of women being asphyxiated in plastic bags. It monetizes all content, even illegal content which hasn't been reviewed or reported. This is how it works for all sites that allow user generated content, including YouTube. Racist and misogynist content isn't illegal in the US. There are plenty of BDSM videos including footage of women being asphyxiated in plastic bags. You can find men and women with hot wax being poured on their genitalia or needles piercing their genitalia. You can find golden showers and scat too. None of that content is illegal in the US. >Unlike YouTube, Pornhub allows these videos to be downloaded directly from its website. Really? We all know this isn't true because of youtube-dl. Restricting downloads will not work for the determined. If the browser can see it, it can be downloaded. >A search for “girls under18” (no space) or “14yo” leads in each case to more than 100,000 videos. Most aren’t of children being assaulted, but too many are. By the author's own admission, most of the results were not true. Of those that have illegal content, report it. There is only so much a site can do to weed out illegal user generated content. PornHub doesn’t encourage illegal content or turns a blind eye to it. The company uses many of the automated tools that Microsoft and Google developed for fingerprinting pictures and videos of child pornography. >Depictions of child abuse also appear on mainstream sites like Twitter, Reddit and Facebook. You can find videos of adults beating children with all manner of household items. You can find videos of vehicles running over people with their twisted, mangled bodies laying in the street. You can find killings of rival gangs in Mexico and Brazil, or state executions in Iran and Iraq. None of this stuff is illegal in the US. It would be nice if the author focused on the illegal content, rather than the stuff he finds distasteful.
- meowface 6y ago