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Could the average Facebook user readily replace their use of Facebook with LinkedIn or TikTok? I am not a big user of any of those products, but I have the dist

by chc 6y ago

Could the average Facebook user readily replace their use of Facebook with LinkedIn or TikTok? I am not a big user of any of those products, but I have the distinct impression that the answer is no.

CPLX 6y ago
The revenue generating customers of Facebook are not the social network's users.
fishtacos 6y ago
From the FTC.gov[1]: "The antitrust laws prohibit conduct by a single firm that unreasonably restrains competition by creating or maintaining monopoly power. Most Section 2 claims involve the conduct of a firm with a leading market position, although Section 2 of the Sherman Act also bans attempts to monopolize and conspiracies to monopolize. As a first step, courts ask if the firm has "monopoly power" in any market. This requires in-depth study of the products sold by the leading firm, and any alternative products consumers may turn to if the firm attempted to raise prices. Then courts ask if that leading position was gained or maintained through improper conduct—that is, something other than merely having a better product, superior management or historic accident. Here courts evaluate the anticompetitive effects of the conduct and its procompetitive justifications." Does FB unreasonably restrain competition? (My answer is no) Does FB have an alternative? (Mewe/Parler/Gab etc. - Mewe being the most direct alternative) Then courts ask if that leading position was gained or maintained through improper conduct—that is, something other than merely having a better product, superior management or historic accident. - I'd say no. I don't see anything this lawsuit stands on. [1] https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct/monopolization-defined https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a...
- jsinai 6y ago
  The lawsuit is about Facebook’s acquisition of WhatsApp and Instagram effectively roping in users from other platforms into their advertising ecosystem. The monetisation of your data in exchange for adverts can be seen as the cost of the platforms. By aggressively increasing advertising on Instagram and attempting to take steps to monetize WhatsApp, Facebook are raising prices. As far as I understand the question is whether it is their abuse of monopoly power that allows them to do this. For a time people had few alternatives to Instagram or Facebook, which were effectively in competition with each other. This meant that has Facebook monetised your data more, ie increase prices, users were forced to pay if they wanted to stay on a popular social network. TikTok is a recent phenomenon. Secondly it is not enough to consider the UX cost of switching to another platform but also the network effect. Is Mewe/Parker/Gab really a substitute for me if I don’t enjoy the network effects I have on Facebook or Instagram?
  - fishtacos 6y ago
    "The lawsuit is about Facebook’s acquisition of WhatsApp and Instagram effectively roping in users from other platforms into their advertising ecosystem" I don't use Instagram and have used Whatsapp prior to FB acquiring it. There has been no "roping in" of any sort that I have noticed, and while my experience is clearly anecdotal, there doesn't seem to be anything to link to that that I've observed. Perhaps I'm naive, but it would be good to see something concrete in this regard. "The monetisation of your data in exchange for adverts can be seen as the cost of the platforms. By aggressively increasing advertising on Instagram and attempting to take steps to monetize WhatsApp, Facebook are raising prices. As far as I understand the question is whether it is their abuse of monopoly power that allows them to do this." I guess I would call that profit-making, not "aggressive monetization". The alternatives exist and they are all easily accessible. Put yourself in their shoes - would you run a non-profitable enterprise? At what cost? Let's not lose touch with the fact that this is still a capitalistic economy.
  - pbourke 6y ago
    > The monetisation of your data in exchange for adverts can be seen as the cost of the platforms. It will be interesting to see the government prove this for Facebook while ignoring the 800lb gorillas of Google/Doubleclick or Amazon’s ad network.
    - fishtacos 6y ago
      It's why this is a politicized move by the FTC. No reason to get into politics on this site, but it's pretty obvious.
      - pbourke 6y ago
        Even politically it’s just ... weird. Most of the top content on Facebook each month is sympathetic to the current administration. Facebook has arguably played the most ball with them in comparison to other tech companies.
        6y ago
- azernik 6y ago
  > Does FB unreasonably restrain competition? (My answer is no) The lawsuit specifically cites Zuckerberg talking about acquisitions (in this case, the failed Twitter acquisition) as giving "extra time... to get our product in order without having to worry about a competitor growing".
mike00632 6y ago
This is anecdotal but I started using TikTok during the pandemic and it has greatly reduced my use of Facebook. Mindlessly scrolling the TikTok ForYouPage is noticably superior to scrolling the Facebook feed

by chc 6y ago

Could the average Facebook user readily replace their use of Facebook with LinkedIn or TikTok? I am not a big user of any of those products, but I have the distinct impression that the answer is no.

CPLX 6y ago

The revenue generating customers of Facebook are not the social network's users.

fishtacos 6y ago

From the FTC.gov[1]: "The antitrust laws prohibit conduct by a single firm that unreasonably restrains competition by creating or maintaining monopoly power. Most Section 2 claims involve the conduct of a firm with a leading market position, although Section 2 of the Sherman Act also bans attempts to monopolize and conspiracies to monopolize. As a first step, courts ask if the firm has "monopoly power" in any market. This requires in-depth study of the products sold by the leading firm, and any alternative products consumers may turn to if the firm attempted to raise prices. Then courts ask if that leading position was gained or maintained through improper conduct—that is, something other than merely having a better product, superior management or historic accident. Here courts evaluate the anticompetitive effects of the conduct and its procompetitive justifications." Does FB unreasonably restrain competition? (My answer is no) Does FB have an alternative? (Mewe/Parler/Gab etc. - Mewe being the most direct alternative) Then courts ask if that leading position was gained or maintained through improper conduct—that is, something other than merely having a better product, superior management or historic accident. - I'd say no. I don't see anything this lawsuit stands on. [1] https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct/monopolization-defined https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a...

jsinai 6y ago
The lawsuit is about Facebook’s acquisition of WhatsApp and Instagram effectively roping in users from other platforms into their advertising ecosystem. The monetisation of your data in exchange for adverts can be seen as the cost of the platforms. By aggressively increasing advertising on Instagram and attempting to take steps to monetize WhatsApp, Facebook are raising prices. As far as I understand the question is whether it is their abuse of monopoly power that allows them to do this. For a time people had few alternatives to Instagram or Facebook, which were effectively in competition with each other. This meant that has Facebook monetised your data more, ie increase prices, users were forced to pay if they wanted to stay on a popular social network. TikTok is a recent phenomenon. Secondly it is not enough to consider the UX cost of switching to another platform but also the network effect. Is Mewe/Parker/Gab really a substitute for me if I don’t enjoy the network effects I have on Facebook or Instagram?
- fishtacos 6y ago
  "The lawsuit is about Facebook’s acquisition of WhatsApp and Instagram effectively roping in users from other platforms into their advertising ecosystem" I don't use Instagram and have used Whatsapp prior to FB acquiring it. There has been no "roping in" of any sort that I have noticed, and while my experience is clearly anecdotal, there doesn't seem to be anything to link to that that I've observed. Perhaps I'm naive, but it would be good to see something concrete in this regard. "The monetisation of your data in exchange for adverts can be seen as the cost of the platforms. By aggressively increasing advertising on Instagram and attempting to take steps to monetize WhatsApp, Facebook are raising prices. As far as I understand the question is whether it is their abuse of monopoly power that allows them to do this." I guess I would call that profit-making, not "aggressive monetization". The alternatives exist and they are all easily accessible. Put yourself in their shoes - would you run a non-profitable enterprise? At what cost? Let's not lose touch with the fact that this is still a capitalistic economy.
- pbourke 6y ago
  > The monetisation of your data in exchange for adverts can be seen as the cost of the platforms. It will be interesting to see the government prove this for Facebook while ignoring the 800lb gorillas of Google/Doubleclick or Amazon’s ad network.
  - fishtacos 6y ago
    It's why this is a politicized move by the FTC. No reason to get into politics on this site, but it's pretty obvious.
    - pbourke 6y ago
      Even politically it’s just ... weird. Most of the top content on Facebook each month is sympathetic to the current administration. Facebook has arguably played the most ball with them in comparison to other tech companies.
      - 6y ago
azernik 6y ago
> Does FB unreasonably restrain competition? (My answer is no) The lawsuit specifically cites Zuckerberg talking about acquisitions (in this case, the failed Twitter acquisition) as giving "extra time... to get our product in order without having to worry about a competitor growing".

mike00632 6y ago

This is anecdotal but I started using TikTok during the pandemic and it has greatly reduced my use of Facebook. Mindlessly scrolling the TikTok ForYouPage is noticably superior to scrolling the Facebook feed