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Splitting those two properties off would be fantastic. I know it's a pipe dream, but an independent Oculus would make me so happy. I suspect this is impossible

Splitting those two properties off would be fantastic. I know it's a pipe dream, but an independent Oculus would make me so happy. I suspect this is impossible due to the early nature of the VR market. Maybe just an FTC requirement _not_ to require a FB login?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
gamblor956 6y ago
Unfortunately, after skimming through the PDF of the complaint (https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/1910134fbcomplaint.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/1910134fbco...), it appears the FTC is not seeking that remedy. It appears VR is still too small of a market for them to care about.
- vosper 6y ago
  Also, Facebook doesn't have a monopoly on VR - there are several competitors in the market, like HTC and Valve.
  - bogwog 6y ago
    Yeah, and that might be because Valve is too expensive for them to buy.
    - spdionis 6y ago
      Valce is also probably not for sale.
      - ascagnel_ 6y ago
        There's also a bunch of social features embedded in the Steam client; I wouldn't be surprised if regulators took exception to any acquisition by another company with a social network.
- jcfrei 6y ago
  Seems a bit short-sighted because if Oculus becomes the dominant VR platform that Facebook envisions it to be then it's going to dwarf instagram in terms of economic importance (for advertisers and users) over the long term.
  - paxys 6y ago
    The flip side of it is that VR isn't mature enough for a company like Oculus to succeed independently. Having the resources of Facebook behind it will help the VR market as a whole (for now).
  - kossae 6y ago
    I think the FTC will deal with that as it comes. Including that in this case would be speculating the future of the Oculus business.
  - freehunter 6y ago
    That's a big if, one that hinges on way too many things to be able to successfully argue in court about: 1) VR ever becoming a huge player. It might. It might not. Right now there's no real evidence that VR will actually become a big deal, and Facebook could argue that this is a niche offering that can't be anti-competitive because there's no real market yet. 2) The feasibility of VR technology independent of major vendors. There's a strong possibility that without a huge R&D budget VR will never overcome the hurdles that might keep it out of the mainstream. Facebook could argue that removing Oculus would doom VR to failure in the market. 3) The Sirus/XM merger removed 100% of satellite radio competition (there's only one vendor left after the merger), but both Sirius and XM successfully argued that the market isn't big enough to support multiple vendors. Facebook could argue a similar case, that for the health of the VR market there should be fewer competitors. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know if any of those would be winning arguments, but based on previous anti-trust cases I've followed that would be the strategy I would expect. And it might be why the FTC didn't go down that path.
tempsy 6y ago
Pretty sure the focus is on Instagram and Whatsapp only, not Oculus.
SerLava 6y ago
Ugh, yeah Facebook probably bought Oculus thinking: -What if a lot of people use these in the future -What if they're really comfy when they get slim, and people use them all the time, even for essentially web browsing. -Later models can easily have internal and mouth facing cameras so you can smile at people in VR -Let's intimately observe the finest twitch of every expression felt by our users, peering deep into their minds, learning more about how to manipulate and destroy humans than anyone ever thought possible.
- SerLava 6y ago
  I'm getting down votes here, does anyone really think Facebook wouldn't do this?
  - annadane 6y ago
    You're getting downvotes from apologists and shills
- dane-pgp 6y ago
  "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a VR headset worn on a human face - forever." (Apologies to George Orwell.)
- retromario 6y ago
  Their thinking is pretty much all laid out in the 2015 Zuckerberg memo on VR/AR: https://twitter.com/lucasmtny/status/1095861887588229120?s=20 https://twitter.com/lucasmtny/status/1095861887588229120?s=2...
  - shostack 6y ago
    Ava the Oculus Connect 6 keynote video on YouTube.
- Applejinx 6y ago
  Damn straight. The prospect of how much you can learn about human reactions is INCREDIBLE. Eye and mouth tracking is everything, here: it would be turning a wide variety of human behavior study into Big Data and straightforward machine learning. What would you do with it? What wouldn't you do with it?
jfb 6y ago
Oculus doesn't present a monopoly concern in advertising, though.
- sharkweek 6y ago
  Just wait until you slip into the Oculus 5 and enjoy a movie night with your friends anywhere in the world! Oh what’s that? Your eyes looked at the logo on the shirt the hero is wearing, are you perhaps interested in learning more about where you could buy it?
  - csunbird 6y ago
    Or, if the Oculus becomes the most popular VR equipment, think about the advertising can be shown to people in VR Chat rooms, VR films, virtual cinemas..... all bound to a single company.
justapassenger 6y ago
> I know it's a pipe dream, but an independent Oculus would make me so happy While that would cool for short-term, independent Oculus can stagnate. VR still needs many more billions to be truly usable, and I don't think independent company will be able to fund it.
- djrogers 6y ago
  > independent Oculus can stagnate My experience has been that technology is far more likely to stagnate at BigCo than SmallCo - especially if SmallCo's only source of revenue is said technology.
  - thebigman433 6y ago
    I think down the line that would be true, but Facebook's willingness to burn literal billions of dollars at this point is basically the only thing carrying VR. Id love to see it split off in the future though.
    - Barrin92 6y ago
      I'm not sure big money is what is needed to create a flourishing VR sector. The appeal of VR has always been creating virtual experiences that are different and unique. honestly I think it makes much more sense for that scene to be decentralised and independent. Kind of like Minecraft came about, I have trouble imagining it as some sort big money project. I don't think the issue with VR at this point is so much technical than it is that nobody's yet been creative enough to make something truly unique with it.
      - arxpoetica 6y ago
        Agree. VR is not more than a novelty and gaming tool yet. Gaming is a huge potential, but I think the real use cases haven't been proven out yet. I'm still a believer, but I suspect there are other non-VR technologies that either need to catch up or just figure out how to dovetail for VR to be anything other than a novelty.
rolph 6y ago
considering some of the things that facebook has been used for it should be very careful about what it does with VR/AR and the potential for use as a HUD facilitating an attacker and providing them with a support team
cynoclast 6y ago
I was interested in VR before FB bought Oculus and was considering it as an option. But the instant FB bought it I wrote it off as an option because I knew there would be fuckery down the road. And guess what? If FB bans the FB account you're forced to link your Oculus to you, can't use it anymore. Unbelievable behvior.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

gamblor956 6y ago

Unfortunately, after skimming through the PDF of the complaint (https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/1910134fbcomplaint.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/1910134fbco...), it appears the FTC is not seeking that remedy. It appears VR is still too small of a market for them to care about.

vosper 6y ago
Also, Facebook doesn't have a monopoly on VR - there are several competitors in the market, like HTC and Valve.
- bogwog 6y ago
  Yeah, and that might be because Valve is too expensive for them to buy.
  - spdionis 6y ago
    Valce is also probably not for sale.
    - ascagnel_ 6y ago
      There's also a bunch of social features embedded in the Steam client; I wouldn't be surprised if regulators took exception to any acquisition by another company with a social network.
jcfrei 6y ago
Seems a bit short-sighted because if Oculus becomes the dominant VR platform that Facebook envisions it to be then it's going to dwarf instagram in terms of economic importance (for advertisers and users) over the long term.
- paxys 6y ago
  The flip side of it is that VR isn't mature enough for a company like Oculus to succeed independently. Having the resources of Facebook behind it will help the VR market as a whole (for now).
- kossae 6y ago
  I think the FTC will deal with that as it comes. Including that in this case would be speculating the future of the Oculus business.
- freehunter 6y ago
  That's a big if, one that hinges on way too many things to be able to successfully argue in court about: 1) VR ever becoming a huge player. It might. It might not. Right now there's no real evidence that VR will actually become a big deal, and Facebook could argue that this is a niche offering that can't be anti-competitive because there's no real market yet. 2) The feasibility of VR technology independent of major vendors. There's a strong possibility that without a huge R&D budget VR will never overcome the hurdles that might keep it out of the mainstream. Facebook could argue that removing Oculus would doom VR to failure in the market. 3) The Sirus/XM merger removed 100% of satellite radio competition (there's only one vendor left after the merger), but both Sirius and XM successfully argued that the market isn't big enough to support multiple vendors. Facebook could argue a similar case, that for the health of the VR market there should be fewer competitors. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know if any of those would be winning arguments, but based on previous anti-trust cases I've followed that would be the strategy I would expect. And it might be why the FTC didn't go down that path.

tempsy 6y ago

Pretty sure the focus is on Instagram and Whatsapp only, not Oculus.

SerLava 6y ago

Ugh, yeah Facebook probably bought Oculus thinking: -What if a lot of people use these in the future -What if they're really comfy when they get slim, and people use them all the time, even for essentially web browsing. -Later models can easily have internal and mouth facing cameras so you can smile at people in VR -Let's intimately observe the finest twitch of every expression felt by our users, peering deep into their minds, learning more about how to manipulate and destroy humans than anyone ever thought possible.

SerLava 6y ago
I'm getting down votes here, does anyone really think Facebook wouldn't do this?
- annadane 6y ago
  You're getting downvotes from apologists and shills
dane-pgp 6y ago
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a VR headset worn on a human face - forever." (Apologies to George Orwell.)
retromario 6y ago
Their thinking is pretty much all laid out in the 2015 Zuckerberg memo on VR/AR: https://twitter.com/lucasmtny/status/1095861887588229120?s=20 https://twitter.com/lucasmtny/status/1095861887588229120?s=2...
- shostack 6y ago
  Ava the Oculus Connect 6 keynote video on YouTube.
Applejinx 6y ago
Damn straight. The prospect of how much you can learn about human reactions is INCREDIBLE. Eye and mouth tracking is everything, here: it would be turning a wide variety of human behavior study into Big Data and straightforward machine learning. What would you do with it? What wouldn't you do with it?

jfb 6y ago

Oculus doesn't present a monopoly concern in advertising, though.

sharkweek 6y ago
Just wait until you slip into the Oculus 5 and enjoy a movie night with your friends anywhere in the world! Oh what’s that? Your eyes looked at the logo on the shirt the hero is wearing, are you perhaps interested in learning more about where you could buy it?
- csunbird 6y ago
  Or, if the Oculus becomes the most popular VR equipment, think about the advertising can be shown to people in VR Chat rooms, VR films, virtual cinemas..... all bound to a single company.

justapassenger 6y ago

> I know it's a pipe dream, but an independent Oculus would make me so happy While that would cool for short-term, independent Oculus can stagnate. VR still needs many more billions to be truly usable, and I don't think independent company will be able to fund it.

djrogers 6y ago
> independent Oculus can stagnate My experience has been that technology is far more likely to stagnate at BigCo than SmallCo - especially if SmallCo's only source of revenue is said technology.
- thebigman433 6y ago
  I think down the line that would be true, but Facebook's willingness to burn literal billions of dollars at this point is basically the only thing carrying VR. Id love to see it split off in the future though.
  - Barrin92 6y ago
    I'm not sure big money is what is needed to create a flourishing VR sector. The appeal of VR has always been creating virtual experiences that are different and unique. honestly I think it makes much more sense for that scene to be decentralised and independent. Kind of like Minecraft came about, I have trouble imagining it as some sort big money project. I don't think the issue with VR at this point is so much technical than it is that nobody's yet been creative enough to make something truly unique with it.
    - arxpoetica 6y ago
      Agree. VR is not more than a novelty and gaming tool yet. Gaming is a huge potential, but I think the real use cases haven't been proven out yet. I'm still a believer, but I suspect there are other non-VR technologies that either need to catch up or just figure out how to dovetail for VR to be anything other than a novelty.

rolph 6y ago

considering some of the things that facebook has been used for it should be very careful about what it does with VR/AR and the potential for use as a HUD facilitating an attacker and providing them with a support team

cynoclast 6y ago

I was interested in VR before FB bought Oculus and was considering it as an option. But the instant FB bought it I wrote it off as an option because I knew there would be fuckery down the road. And guess what? If FB bans the FB account you're forced to link your Oculus to you, can't use it anymore. Unbelievable behvior.