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My birth certificate says "Texas" across the top and people have been "fleeing California" to Texas for as long as I've been alive. There's nothing special abo

My birth certificate says "Texas" across the top and people have been "fleeing California" to Texas for as long as I've been alive. There's nothing special about Musk; he just happens to be high-profile about it and managed to extract more from California before decamping to a "cheap" state than several of those who came before him. I disagree with your assessment that Texas has wide acceptance for opposing viewpoints, at least out in the suburbs where I grew up. If you were not religious and conservative (I have my own anecdotes), you did not fit in. Only when I went to college in a college town did people largely seem to want to live and let live. Sure, inside the larger cities it is more cosmopolitan, for lack of a better word, but lots of people live in the 'burbs and around the smaller areas and do not get the benefit of this peaceful coexistence. For example, to this day I do not recommend being openly gay and living near Tyler. If someone moved to Texas, they made a choice to accept it and I will not knock people for their individual choices. But my experience is not that the prevailing view is open acceptance of people of all stripes like found in other parts of the country.

monoideism 6y ago
By the same token, there are vast regions of California that are conservative rural and conservative suburban as you describe (hello 22nd district).
WillPostForFood 6y ago
How long have you been out of Texas? I think we know people aren't coming to Texas to live in Tyler; They are moving to the cities, Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio, which are all diverse, and have large gay communities. Even Tyler has changed. (old article, but still) https://www.advocate.com/society/activism/2009/09/29/gays-take-east-texas-highway-storm https://www.advocate.com/society/activism/2009/09/29/gays-ta...
- tedivm 6y ago
  That article is horrifying. If you meant to show that ass "texas getting better" then I hate to see how bad it was before this.
  - danhak 6y ago
    While that strikes me as an odd article to have shared, for some perspective, it was published in 2009--less than a year after Californians voted "yes" on proposition 8 to ban same-sex marriage. It's not as though California was always unicorns and rainbows, either.
- techsupporter 6y ago
  But that's rather my point: if you're living just in the larger metro areas, you're choosing to insulate yourself from the rampant discrimination and bigotry that, numerically, forms the bulk of the electorate and shape the cultural mindset. To be clear, that's not a bad thing that people make that choice; I would, were in that position. If Texas voters will finally vote in someone who is more like Ann Richards than Greg Abbott, I will believe the mindset is changing. Statewide votes for Governor, Lite Gov, Comptroller, and so on are not gerrymandered so a vote in San Antonio counts just as much as a vote in Midland. (To your first question, I have not lived in Texas for over a decade, but I am the only member of my family who does not so I have pretty close connections to this day.)
  - bradj 6y ago
    I think you’ll find that that is true of all southern metros. Atlanta is different from Calhoun, Birmingham from Anniston, Huntsville from Madison, etc. It’s not that people are choosing to insulate - the metros are where the jobs are. Those metros have been changed by the influx of people, and if there were jobs the suburbs you would see the electorate change there as well.
    - Apocryphon 6y ago
      That's true for California, Washington, Oregon, New York, and Illinois as well. The big cities in every state are going to be culturally and economically different from the countryside. The only exceptions are affluent tourism-oriented rural areas like Napa.
  - sdljfjafsd 6y ago
    Is that really any different from any other state, including California? Rural vs urban culture are completely different in every state in America. As Californians we still insulate ourselves from rural culture. The only difference in California those counties don't form the bulk of the electorate while in Texas they do. We still have the same problem: a cultural divide between rural and urban.
    - 6y ago
- somethoughts 6y ago
  I feel like Texas is basically California in the 1980s. Back then CA definitely used to vote in Republican governors, etc. San Francisco and downtown LA were surrounded by very Republican suburbs. As they grew into the surrounding suburbs, the voting trends changed. The "dysfunction" is more likely a function of population density as it is a unique California thing. Watching local Austin news - definitely some familiar problems - gentrification, what to do about the homeless/crime, pollution, desires to raise taxes, traffic.
claydavisss 6y ago
Times change. At least in Austin (where most of the tech people go), the prevailing political viewpoints are pure coastal-envy liberal
jacquesm 6y ago
> For example, to this day I do not recommend being openly gay and living near Tyler. > If someone moved to Texas, they made a choice to accept it and I will not knock people for their individual choices. Sucks if you're gay and are born near Tyler. In case others will knock you for something that wasn't even a choice to begin with.
- toomuchcabbage2 6y ago
  Sucks to be white and born in Detroit.
goatherders 6y ago
I've lived in Austin 25 years and have long said "The price we pay for living in such a great city is we have to be surrounded by the rest of Texas."
- YinglingLight 6y ago
  That level of typical HN entitlement is yikes. Cursed energy.
- hnburnsy 6y ago
  Many in San Diego say something similar.
- cbozeman 6y ago
  Yeah, who doesn't love a tent city. Austin is trying to turn in a smaller scale version of San Francisco, complete with needles and shit on the streets. Nothing about that is "great". I'll take Fort Worth over that any day.
anonymousDan 6y ago
You really think the story is any different in many parts of California?
mrits 6y ago
I grew up in Tyler but have lived in Austin for 15 years. I don't mean to be argumentative but you seem to be comparing Small town Texas with "Big City" California. I've vacationed in smaller towns in California and the conservative nature of those areas remind me a lot of Tyler,Texas.
- JPKab 6y ago
  Your onto something, and I think another crucial detail is that the small, southern town I grew up in is more tolerant of gay folks now than the vast majority of big cities were 20 years ago. There's been such a massive shift in tolerance towards gay humans across the entire culture that comparing any place I go to NOW vs where I grew up WHEN I was a kid is a massive difference. Compared to 2020 Anywhere, 2000 Anywhere was a very bigoted place.
  - lowdose 6y ago
    Finally but this such a young development it should be cherished by not taking it for granted.
  - gowld 6y ago
    Then why is homophobia still a winning campaign platform in so many states?
    - throwaway201103 6y ago
      Is it? Where? Which winning campaigns?
    - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
      Probably not very many places, but transphobia still has quite a bit of traction.
  - CyberDildonics 6y ago
    > 2000 Anywhere was a very bigoted place. This really is not true, in many big cities it was another common facet of life that people were by and large apathetic about at that point.
armenarmen 6y ago
The liberal inner cores of Texas cities primarily grew up in these burbs and small towns, and know that despite being a MAGA bro, their uncle isn't satan incarnate. Compare that to the dirty looks I got walking around SF in a Buck-ees hat that happened to be red. It bordered upon comedy.
- lavishlatern 6y ago
  I've never seen this behavior in SF, especially considering how many people wear red 49ers apparel...
  - sonotmyname 6y ago
    77 year old man attacked for wearing MAGA hat https://krcrtv.com/news/local/77-year-old-veteran-attacked-for-wearing-maga-hat https://krcrtv.com/news/local/77-year-old-veteran-attacked-f... Man sent to jail for attack on man wearing MAGA hat: https://www.fox5dc.com/news/man-who-attacked-maga-hat-wearing-bar-patron-in-restroom-faces-4-years-in-prison https://www.fox5dc.com/news/man-who-attacked-maga-hat-wearin... And an article about other incidents around the country: https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/attacks-trump-supporters-maga-hats/ https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/attacks-trump-supporters... 49ers hats are not bright red, and tend to be fairly distinctive. Anecdote time - my buddy sometimes wears a red hat with the California bear on it, and he regularly (as in without fail) gets dirty looks because of it. I personally stopped wearing my red Nike running hat in public last year because of the reactions I'd get. For context, we live in a relatively conservative East Bay suburb of Northern California.
    - lavishlatern 6y ago
      1) None of these incidents occurred in SF 2) Politically motivated violence is rare in the US and right-wing violence obviously exists as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Portland_train_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Portland_train_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlottesville_car_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlottesville_car_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2018_United_States_mail_bombing_attempts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2018_United_States_mai... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_synagogue_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_synagogue_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_boogaloo_killings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_boogaloo_killings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer_kidnapping_plot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer_kidnapping_pl... Implying that people who enjoy wearing red hats should avoid SF is like telling liberals to not open their mail. It's absurd. 3) They definitely make 49er hats in bright red: https://www.rallyhouse.com/assets/images/products/59001909-1.jpg https://www.rallyhouse.com/assets/images/products/59001909-1... https://m.hatland.com/prodimg/m1/49ers-super-bowl-xxiii-gold-50-red-fitted-new-era-26917.jpg https://m.hatland.com/prodimg/m1/49ers-super-bowl-xxiii-gold... https://www.neweracap.com/medias/sys_master/root/h75/h28/8914481315870/8914481315870.png https://www.neweracap.com/medias/sys_master/root/h75/h28/891... https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/1f6093f0-cbdc-42ac-a096-c656e7711021.75e581e6ae24eeb3d8719e404680fc16.jpeg https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/1f6093f0-cbdc-42ac-a096-c65...
artificialLimbs 6y ago
>>If you were not religious and conservative (I have my own anecdotes), you did not fit in. Only when I went to college in a college town did people largely seem to want to live and let live. Any society will try to grind your unique edges off to more smoothly fit into their culture. Perhaps you were more inclined to explore liberalism or intellectualism (more prone to be the culture around colleges) or had had enough of conservative religiousness. I had that same kind of inclination from ~18-30 years old. I have seen plenty of discrimination and judgment coming from 'the right' in my upbringing (usually directed toward others). But now that I'm much more center road and no longer extremist leftist, I am experiencing increasing hostility from my still left leaning friends/groups. I hope that the internet can somehow transform into a vehicle of understanding rather than a vehicle of argument. Maybe video comments would be more helpful in this regard.
reaperducer 6y ago
I disagree with your assessment that Texas has wide acceptance for opposing viewpoints, at least out in the suburbs where I grew up. The Texas you grew up in is not the same as Texas today. Places change. People change. Look at a county-by-county map of the election results.
jokethrowaway 6y ago
>I disagree with your assessment that Texas has wide acceptance for opposing viewpoints, at least out in the suburbs where I grew up. If you were not religious and conservative (I have my own anecdotes), you did not fit in. Only when I went to college in a college town did people largely seem to want to live and let live. Sure, inside the larger cities it is more cosmopolitan... That doesn't sound very specific of Texas, that's the case pretty much everywhere
- btilly 6y ago
  That was not my experience when I lived in rural Washington State. Nor did I get that sense in New Hampshire.
olalonde 6y ago
> There's nothing special about Musk; he just happens to be high-profile about it and managed to extract more from California before decamping to a "cheap" state than several of those who came before him. What did he extract from California? Was he on welfare?
- benzible 6y ago
  Yes, corporate welfare [1]. [1] https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-201...
girvo 6y ago
In my experience, people saying “opposing viewpoints can coexist unlike California” really mean “conservative viewpoints are the norm here”. That might not be the case for the GP comment, but it honestly reads that way. It’s a common complaint and refrain from conservatives at the moment.
woah 6y ago
It's been a massive windfall to people who have been homeowners for 40 years in California. High rents due to the fact that you're not allowed to build new housing, high property taxes paid by new residents, while old residents pay nothing, high income and sales taxes to paper over the gap in the budget left by the lack of property tax paid by longtime residents. The whole system has been optimized to milk as much money as possible from newcomers. The people in power in California even scapegoated the newcomers for a long time, and pretended that they were unwanted. Now that the system has finally become unsustainable, we get these ridiculous takes about how somebody "extracted wealth" from California.
- fortran77 6y ago
  > while old residents pay nothing This is patently false. Property taxes can and do raise 2%/year. California does need to build new housing.
  - woah 6y ago
    You are quite simply wrong. Here is a map showing how next door neighbors frequently have a 10x difference in property taxes paid on equivalent dwellings: https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/map-bay-area-property-taxes/ https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/map-bay-area-property-ta...
    - omgwtfbyobbq 6y ago
      You're both right. Property taxes can increase by up to 2% per year, and new owners frequently pay far more than old owners because property has appreciated significantly in coastal metros with limited space for new construction. This had been especially obvious because historically low interest rates have enabled a lot of asset appreciation, with real estate being one example. High real estate prices lead to high property taxes, which makes the difference in taxes paid much more obvious. NIMBYism also plays a part, but I think people routinely overlook that developers often don't improve local facilities in line with local housing projects, which can lead to all kinds of awfulness. That new 1000 unit apartment complex also needs 1000+ parking spaces, along with other improvements in local infrastructure in proportion to the increase in population, but a developer won't care about that unless someone forces them to care.
rconti 6y ago
This. I grew up in Seattle, and people "fleeing California" has been a meme since at least the early 80s, but no doubt, for many decades before that. Notice he's "fleeing" after he made his billions.
- andyv 6y ago
  I doubt that Elon is done making money.
- cbozeman 6y ago
  Well he hasn't made shit yet, since in order to access those "billions" he has to sell stock options to get them. And I'd wager every dollar I have he has no intention of liquidating all his stock options.
dcolkitt 6y ago
> For example, to this day I do not recommend being openly gay and living near Tyler. I've never heard anyone in Tyler scream at random strangers calling them "f*t". But that does seem to be a pretty much daily occurrence from the illustrious cast of characters that hang out around the Powell Street BART station.
- monocasa 6y ago
  When you're in a place like Tyler, you learn to tone down any external queerness for personal safety reasons. You might not have heard it because they've already hammered down all the nails around you that stick out.
carleverett 6y ago
Fun anecdote: A couple years ago I was at a bar in Marfa, Texas - a small art-centric town that gets a lot of tourism for things like it's fake Prada store (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prada_Marfa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prada_Marfa) - and overheard a few guys celebrating a birthday. They were all clearly gay, which isn't unusual in Marfa. I started talking with them and it turned out that one of them, who was black, had just bought a ranch a half hour north of Marfa outside the town of Fort Davis. Fort Davis also has a bit of a touristy feel with its exaggerated "old western town" look and because it's right outside Fort Davis State Park, but culturally it's no Marfa. The fact that an openly gay black man felt comfortable buying farmland in a small Texas town was pretty awesome. I have a hard time believing that would've happened even 10 years ago. In fact, he might be the first. I hope he still likes it there.
nisuni 6y ago
> Only when I went to college in a college town did people largely seem to want to live and let live. Well, live and let live sounds pretty ideal, given that in several places across California conservative opinions are not tolerated. Maybe we agree that a college town in Texas it's a place where opposing viewpoints can still coexist?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
notsureaboutpg 6y ago
>Only when I went to college in a college town did people largely seem to want to live and let live. It's odd because I grew up in a major metro, and going to college I found people in college to be very strict and severe about enforcing their morals on people. You had to use specific language, be nice and more forgiving and understanding to the right groups of people, and you were not supposed to disagree on specific subjects of discussion or you'd be a pariah. The idea that this is "live and let live" is silly. It seems that way to you because your morals align very closely with the morals of people in a college setting. If they didn't, you'd notice the similarities to an orthodox religious community immediately.
- aptwebapps 6y ago
  I think you are making some rather large assumptions. It's possible that you and 'techsupporter went to similar colleges in similar cities and around the same time, and the only difference is between your perspectives. But if those conditions aren't true, especially the last one, then your experiences may have been objectively very different.
rayiner 6y ago
I’m not gay, but I’m a brown guy with a beard. I was in Tyler last year and it was great. Super friendly people. Also, extremely diverse. More so in practice than I remember from visiting San Francisco. You actually see white and Latino people eating together at the same restaurant, not like in many coastal cities where the diversity is on paper but different groups mostly never intersect due to massive socioeconomic divides.
jrnichols 6y ago
> If you were not religious and conservative (I have my own anecdotes), you did not fit in I think that people underestimate just how common this very same thing is here in California. > but lots of people live in the 'burbs and around the smaller areas and do not get the benefit of this peaceful coexistence Again, very similar to California. I grew up in California and moved to Texas for 13 years, and have recently (begrudgingly too) moved back to California. Things have not changed a whole lot here. Once you get out of the cities and into more rural areas, it's about the same as you'd experience anywhere else.
complexmango 6y ago
Your anecdotal experience is not borne out by either facts or my anecdotal experience. Houston is literally the most diverse city in America, statistically speaking. And you have to look hard to find religiously conservative people in any Texas metro that are also exclusionary. I say that as someone neither white nor Christian. If anything, the only place you may find a lack of diversity is Austin, which is overwhelmingly white and overwhelmingly intolerant of non-leftist opinions.
- jonathanyc 6y ago
  As a Christian in California, I’m genuinely curious—could you elaborate on what it means for Austin to be overwhelmingly intolerant of non-leftist opinions, and for the rest of Texas to not be exclusionary? I hear this claim from time to time but I’d like to know what it means concretely. Do you mean things like churches being closed due to COVID, or some sort of anti-white racism existing in Austin on the one hand while on the other hand racism isn’t prevalent outside of Austin?

monoideism 6y ago

By the same token, there are vast regions of California that are conservative rural and conservative suburban as you describe (hello 22nd district).

WillPostForFood 6y ago

How long have you been out of Texas? I think we know people aren't coming to Texas to live in Tyler; They are moving to the cities, Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio, which are all diverse, and have large gay communities. Even Tyler has changed. (old article, but still) https://www.advocate.com/society/activism/2009/09/29/gays-take-east-texas-highway-storm https://www.advocate.com/society/activism/2009/09/29/gays-ta...

tedivm 6y ago
That article is horrifying. If you meant to show that ass "texas getting better" then I hate to see how bad it was before this.
- danhak 6y ago
  While that strikes me as an odd article to have shared, for some perspective, it was published in 2009--less than a year after Californians voted "yes" on proposition 8 to ban same-sex marriage. It's not as though California was always unicorns and rainbows, either.
techsupporter 6y ago
But that's rather my point: if you're living just in the larger metro areas, you're choosing to insulate yourself from the rampant discrimination and bigotry that, numerically, forms the bulk of the electorate and shape the cultural mindset. To be clear, that's not a bad thing that people make that choice; I would, were in that position. If Texas voters will finally vote in someone who is more like Ann Richards than Greg Abbott, I will believe the mindset is changing. Statewide votes for Governor, Lite Gov, Comptroller, and so on are not gerrymandered so a vote in San Antonio counts just as much as a vote in Midland. (To your first question, I have not lived in Texas for over a decade, but I am the only member of my family who does not so I have pretty close connections to this day.)
- bradj 6y ago
  I think you’ll find that that is true of all southern metros. Atlanta is different from Calhoun, Birmingham from Anniston, Huntsville from Madison, etc. It’s not that people are choosing to insulate - the metros are where the jobs are. Those metros have been changed by the influx of people, and if there were jobs the suburbs you would see the electorate change there as well.
  - Apocryphon 6y ago
    That's true for California, Washington, Oregon, New York, and Illinois as well. The big cities in every state are going to be culturally and economically different from the countryside. The only exceptions are affluent tourism-oriented rural areas like Napa.
- sdljfjafsd 6y ago
  Is that really any different from any other state, including California? Rural vs urban culture are completely different in every state in America. As Californians we still insulate ourselves from rural culture. The only difference in California those counties don't form the bulk of the electorate while in Texas they do. We still have the same problem: a cultural divide between rural and urban.
  - 6y ago
somethoughts 6y ago
I feel like Texas is basically California in the 1980s. Back then CA definitely used to vote in Republican governors, etc. San Francisco and downtown LA were surrounded by very Republican suburbs. As they grew into the surrounding suburbs, the voting trends changed. The "dysfunction" is more likely a function of population density as it is a unique California thing. Watching local Austin news - definitely some familiar problems - gentrification, what to do about the homeless/crime, pollution, desires to raise taxes, traffic.

claydavisss 6y ago

Times change. At least in Austin (where most of the tech people go), the prevailing political viewpoints are pure coastal-envy liberal

jacquesm 6y ago

> For example, to this day I do not recommend being openly gay and living near Tyler. > If someone moved to Texas, they made a choice to accept it and I will not knock people for their individual choices. Sucks if you're gay and are born near Tyler. In case others will knock you for something that wasn't even a choice to begin with.

toomuchcabbage2 6y ago
Sucks to be white and born in Detroit.

goatherders 6y ago

I've lived in Austin 25 years and have long said "The price we pay for living in such a great city is we have to be surrounded by the rest of Texas."

YinglingLight 6y ago
That level of typical HN entitlement is yikes. Cursed energy.
hnburnsy 6y ago
Many in San Diego say something similar.
cbozeman 6y ago
Yeah, who doesn't love a tent city. Austin is trying to turn in a smaller scale version of San Francisco, complete with needles and shit on the streets. Nothing about that is "great". I'll take Fort Worth over that any day.

anonymousDan 6y ago

You really think the story is any different in many parts of California?

mrits 6y ago

I grew up in Tyler but have lived in Austin for 15 years. I don't mean to be argumentative but you seem to be comparing Small town Texas with "Big City" California. I've vacationed in smaller towns in California and the conservative nature of those areas remind me a lot of Tyler,Texas.

JPKab 6y ago
Your onto something, and I think another crucial detail is that the small, southern town I grew up in is more tolerant of gay folks now than the vast majority of big cities were 20 years ago. There's been such a massive shift in tolerance towards gay humans across the entire culture that comparing any place I go to NOW vs where I grew up WHEN I was a kid is a massive difference. Compared to 2020 Anywhere, 2000 Anywhere was a very bigoted place.
- lowdose 6y ago
  Finally but this such a young development it should be cherished by not taking it for granted.
- gowld 6y ago
  Then why is homophobia still a winning campaign platform in so many states?
  - throwaway201103 6y ago
    Is it? Where? Which winning campaigns?
  - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
    Probably not very many places, but transphobia still has quite a bit of traction.
- CyberDildonics 6y ago
  > 2000 Anywhere was a very bigoted place. This really is not true, in many big cities it was another common facet of life that people were by and large apathetic about at that point.

armenarmen 6y ago

The liberal inner cores of Texas cities primarily grew up in these burbs and small towns, and know that despite being a MAGA bro, their uncle isn't satan incarnate. Compare that to the dirty looks I got walking around SF in a Buck-ees hat that happened to be red. It bordered upon comedy.

lavishlatern 6y ago
I've never seen this behavior in SF, especially considering how many people wear red 49ers apparel...
- sonotmyname 6y ago
  77 year old man attacked for wearing MAGA hat https://krcrtv.com/news/local/77-year-old-veteran-attacked-for-wearing-maga-hat https://krcrtv.com/news/local/77-year-old-veteran-attacked-f... Man sent to jail for attack on man wearing MAGA hat: https://www.fox5dc.com/news/man-who-attacked-maga-hat-wearing-bar-patron-in-restroom-faces-4-years-in-prison https://www.fox5dc.com/news/man-who-attacked-maga-hat-wearin... And an article about other incidents around the country: https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/attacks-trump-supporters-maga-hats/ https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/attacks-trump-supporters... 49ers hats are not bright red, and tend to be fairly distinctive. Anecdote time - my buddy sometimes wears a red hat with the California bear on it, and he regularly (as in without fail) gets dirty looks because of it. I personally stopped wearing my red Nike running hat in public last year because of the reactions I'd get. For context, we live in a relatively conservative East Bay suburb of Northern California.
  - lavishlatern 6y ago
    1) None of these incidents occurred in SF 2) Politically motivated violence is rare in the US and right-wing violence obviously exists as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Portland_train_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Portland_train_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlottesville_car_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlottesville_car_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2018_United_States_mail_bombing_attempts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2018_United_States_mai... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_synagogue_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_synagogue_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_boogaloo_killings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_boogaloo_killings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer_kidnapping_plot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer_kidnapping_pl... Implying that people who enjoy wearing red hats should avoid SF is like telling liberals to not open their mail. It's absurd. 3) They definitely make 49er hats in bright red: https://www.rallyhouse.com/assets/images/products/59001909-1.jpg https://www.rallyhouse.com/assets/images/products/59001909-1... https://m.hatland.com/prodimg/m1/49ers-super-bowl-xxiii-gold-50-red-fitted-new-era-26917.jpg https://m.hatland.com/prodimg/m1/49ers-super-bowl-xxiii-gold... https://www.neweracap.com/medias/sys_master/root/h75/h28/8914481315870/8914481315870.png https://www.neweracap.com/medias/sys_master/root/h75/h28/891... https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/1f6093f0-cbdc-42ac-a096-c656e7711021.75e581e6ae24eeb3d8719e404680fc16.jpeg https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/1f6093f0-cbdc-42ac-a096-c65...

artificialLimbs 6y ago

>>If you were not religious and conservative (I have my own anecdotes), you did not fit in. Only when I went to college in a college town did people largely seem to want to live and let live. Any society will try to grind your unique edges off to more smoothly fit into their culture. Perhaps you were more inclined to explore liberalism or intellectualism (more prone to be the culture around colleges) or had had enough of conservative religiousness. I had that same kind of inclination from ~18-30 years old. I have seen plenty of discrimination and judgment coming from 'the right' in my upbringing (usually directed toward others). But now that I'm much more center road and no longer extremist leftist, I am experiencing increasing hostility from my still left leaning friends/groups. I hope that the internet can somehow transform into a vehicle of understanding rather than a vehicle of argument. Maybe video comments would be more helpful in this regard.

reaperducer 6y ago

I disagree with your assessment that Texas has wide acceptance for opposing viewpoints, at least out in the suburbs where I grew up. The Texas you grew up in is not the same as Texas today. Places change. People change. Look at a county-by-county map of the election results.

jokethrowaway 6y ago

>I disagree with your assessment that Texas has wide acceptance for opposing viewpoints, at least out in the suburbs where I grew up. If you were not religious and conservative (I have my own anecdotes), you did not fit in. Only when I went to college in a college town did people largely seem to want to live and let live. Sure, inside the larger cities it is more cosmopolitan... That doesn't sound very specific of Texas, that's the case pretty much everywhere

btilly 6y ago
That was not my experience when I lived in rural Washington State. Nor did I get that sense in New Hampshire.

olalonde 6y ago

> There's nothing special about Musk; he just happens to be high-profile about it and managed to extract more from California before decamping to a "cheap" state than several of those who came before him. What did he extract from California? Was he on welfare?

benzible 6y ago
Yes, corporate welfare [1]. [1] https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-201...

girvo 6y ago

In my experience, people saying “opposing viewpoints can coexist unlike California” really mean “conservative viewpoints are the norm here”. That might not be the case for the GP comment, but it honestly reads that way. It’s a common complaint and refrain from conservatives at the moment.

woah 6y ago

It's been a massive windfall to people who have been homeowners for 40 years in California. High rents due to the fact that you're not allowed to build new housing, high property taxes paid by new residents, while old residents pay nothing, high income and sales taxes to paper over the gap in the budget left by the lack of property tax paid by longtime residents. The whole system has been optimized to milk as much money as possible from newcomers. The people in power in California even scapegoated the newcomers for a long time, and pretended that they were unwanted. Now that the system has finally become unsustainable, we get these ridiculous takes about how somebody "extracted wealth" from California.

fortran77 6y ago
> while old residents pay nothing This is patently false. Property taxes can and do raise 2%/year. California does need to build new housing.
- woah 6y ago
  You are quite simply wrong. Here is a map showing how next door neighbors frequently have a 10x difference in property taxes paid on equivalent dwellings: https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/map-bay-area-property-taxes/ https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/map-bay-area-property-ta...
  - omgwtfbyobbq 6y ago
    You're both right. Property taxes can increase by up to 2% per year, and new owners frequently pay far more than old owners because property has appreciated significantly in coastal metros with limited space for new construction. This had been especially obvious because historically low interest rates have enabled a lot of asset appreciation, with real estate being one example. High real estate prices lead to high property taxes, which makes the difference in taxes paid much more obvious. NIMBYism also plays a part, but I think people routinely overlook that developers often don't improve local facilities in line with local housing projects, which can lead to all kinds of awfulness. That new 1000 unit apartment complex also needs 1000+ parking spaces, along with other improvements in local infrastructure in proportion to the increase in population, but a developer won't care about that unless someone forces them to care.

rconti 6y ago

This. I grew up in Seattle, and people "fleeing California" has been a meme since at least the early 80s, but no doubt, for many decades before that. Notice he's "fleeing" after he made his billions.

andyv 6y ago
I doubt that Elon is done making money.
cbozeman 6y ago
Well he hasn't made shit yet, since in order to access those "billions" he has to sell stock options to get them. And I'd wager every dollar I have he has no intention of liquidating all his stock options.

dcolkitt 6y ago

> For example, to this day I do not recommend being openly gay and living near Tyler. I've never heard anyone in Tyler scream at random strangers calling them "f*t". But that does seem to be a pretty much daily occurrence from the illustrious cast of characters that hang out around the Powell Street BART station.

monocasa 6y ago
When you're in a place like Tyler, you learn to tone down any external queerness for personal safety reasons. You might not have heard it because they've already hammered down all the nails around you that stick out.

carleverett 6y ago

Fun anecdote: A couple years ago I was at a bar in Marfa, Texas - a small art-centric town that gets a lot of tourism for things like it's fake Prada store (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prada_Marfa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prada_Marfa) - and overheard a few guys celebrating a birthday. They were all clearly gay, which isn't unusual in Marfa. I started talking with them and it turned out that one of them, who was black, had just bought a ranch a half hour north of Marfa outside the town of Fort Davis. Fort Davis also has a bit of a touristy feel with its exaggerated "old western town" look and because it's right outside Fort Davis State Park, but culturally it's no Marfa. The fact that an openly gay black man felt comfortable buying farmland in a small Texas town was pretty awesome. I have a hard time believing that would've happened even 10 years ago. In fact, he might be the first. I hope he still likes it there.

nisuni 6y ago

> Only when I went to college in a college town did people largely seem to want to live and let live. Well, live and let live sounds pretty ideal, given that in several places across California conservative opinions are not tolerated. Maybe we agree that a college town in Texas it's a place where opposing viewpoints can still coexist?

deleted 6y ago

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notsureaboutpg 6y ago

>Only when I went to college in a college town did people largely seem to want to live and let live. It's odd because I grew up in a major metro, and going to college I found people in college to be very strict and severe about enforcing their morals on people. You had to use specific language, be nice and more forgiving and understanding to the right groups of people, and you were not supposed to disagree on specific subjects of discussion or you'd be a pariah. The idea that this is "live and let live" is silly. It seems that way to you because your morals align very closely with the morals of people in a college setting. If they didn't, you'd notice the similarities to an orthodox religious community immediately.

aptwebapps 6y ago
I think you are making some rather large assumptions. It's possible that you and 'techsupporter went to similar colleges in similar cities and around the same time, and the only difference is between your perspectives. But if those conditions aren't true, especially the last one, then your experiences may have been objectively very different.

rayiner 6y ago

I’m not gay, but I’m a brown guy with a beard. I was in Tyler last year and it was great. Super friendly people. Also, extremely diverse. More so in practice than I remember from visiting San Francisco. You actually see white and Latino people eating together at the same restaurant, not like in many coastal cities where the diversity is on paper but different groups mostly never intersect due to massive socioeconomic divides.

jrnichols 6y ago

> If you were not religious and conservative (I have my own anecdotes), you did not fit in I think that people underestimate just how common this very same thing is here in California. > but lots of people live in the 'burbs and around the smaller areas and do not get the benefit of this peaceful coexistence Again, very similar to California. I grew up in California and moved to Texas for 13 years, and have recently (begrudgingly too) moved back to California. Things have not changed a whole lot here. Once you get out of the cities and into more rural areas, it's about the same as you'd experience anywhere else.

complexmango 6y ago

Your anecdotal experience is not borne out by either facts or my anecdotal experience. Houston is literally the most diverse city in America, statistically speaking. And you have to look hard to find religiously conservative people in any Texas metro that are also exclusionary. I say that as someone neither white nor Christian. If anything, the only place you may find a lack of diversity is Austin, which is overwhelmingly white and overwhelmingly intolerant of non-leftist opinions.

jonathanyc 6y ago
As a Christian in California, I’m genuinely curious—could you elaborate on what it means for Austin to be overwhelmingly intolerant of non-leftist opinions, and for the rest of Texas to not be exclusionary? I hear this claim from time to time but I’d like to know what it means concretely. Do you mean things like churches being closed due to COVID, or some sort of anti-white racism existing in Austin on the one hand while on the other hand racism isn’t prevalent outside of Austin?