7 ms·

zfs send. Keep different filesystems for system backup, personal data, media storage, gross hoarding. Consider not backing up the media storage and gross hoardi

by dsr_ 6y ago

zfs send. Keep different filesystems for system backup, personal data, media storage, gross hoarding. Consider not backing up the media storage and gross hoarding filesystems. Targets: 1. That NAS off in the corner built from an old desktop. 2. rsync.net and similar. 3. your encrypted cloud backup service of choice, through an adapter. If the value of your data is less than the cost to protect it, you know it is disposable, you just wish it weren't.

metalliqaz 6y ago
Yeah as much as my daughter likes the Trolls movie, I'm not paying to back that up.
- EvanAnderson 6y ago
  Redacted zfs send/receive in OpenZFS 2.0 might be interesting to you: https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/pull/7958 https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/pull/7958
  - metalliqaz 6y ago
    I already have selective backups to Backblaze with rclone. The point is that home users can have good reasons for relying on redundancy.
mnd999 6y ago
2) and 3) requires a decent broadband upload speed. Home broadband often doesn’t provide this.
- Fnoord 6y ago
  Depends where you're from I guess. Its also just the first backup which takes a (long) while. If you got only 10 mbit upload, then you're able to upload 600 mbit per minute, or 36000 mbit per hour. Which is about 4500 mB/hour (or ~4,4 GB/hour). Which results in 108000 mB/day (or ~105 GB/day). Its about 3/4 of a TB a week. I'm glad I got 30+ mbit upload with my VDSL2. My first backups took ages (I got 5 TB with Jottacloud). First I thought it was Duplicati being slow with regards to cryptography or being .NET, but nope that ain't it. Incremental backups during night are not going to hamper the connection though.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    > Its about 3/4 of a TB a week. That's best case. Anyone who's done large transfers over the internet knows reality will be much worse.
  - justinclift 6y ago
    Bearing in mind that it's likely not practical to use 100% of available upload bandwidth for extremely long periods of time. Generally speaking anyway. :)
    - Fnoord 6y ago
      True, you're both right, thanks. I should've added that as a disclaimer.
res0nat0r 6y ago
Backing up TB's of data isn't cheap no matter what type of cloud backup solution you're picking unfortunately. I don't think most here want to spend $1000/year on backing up their entire NAS.
- Fnoord 6y ago
  > I don't think most here want to spend $1000/year on backing up their entire NAS. These 2 solutions cost less than 10 USD/month: Jottacloud [1] and zfs.rent [2]. The former is even hosted in privacy-friendly Norway, and its 5 TB unlimited with going over that you get upload-capped. So I pay 90 EUR/year for Jottacloud. Which is approx 10% of your projected 1000 USD. [1] https://www.jottacloud.com/en/ https://www.jottacloud.com/en/ [2] https://zfs.rent/ https://zfs.rent/
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    What about the initial replication? My NAS is currently sitting at about 8TB used, which even at the maximum 10Mb/s upload of my current ISP (best in the area of course, because 'murika) would take 75 days. Your first link doesn't seem to say anything about alternatives for getting the initial data set to them, and your second link, well "We have queued up 200 users and have decided to close new requests for the time being. Please check back soon!" basically means it is imaginary for the time being.
    - Fnoord 6y ago
      Buy a second hand "enterprise" server and buy some new HDDs. Set the server up at work/home, and physically put the server at a data center near your vicinity. If you already live in USA, hosting elsewhere doesn't get you much. The problem with hosting in USA is for sensitive data for people outside of USA (EU for example).
  - mindslight 6y ago
    1. "Unlimited" plans marketed for personal users are unsustainable, which is why they invariably push you into some proprietary app. Sure they might let you dump 24TB on it while they're growing, but they'll inevitably tighten that up. And a key feature of backups is long term - do you really want to be reuploading 24TB in a year or two? Look at their business pricing for the actual no-nonsense cost. 2. You can build a 8TBx4+2 raidz2 with EasyStores for $720. Backing that up to a raidz1 zfs.rent is $1200 for a single year. $2500 for 3 years by prepurchasing the drives. An estimate of $1000/year for full cloud backups isn't wrong.

by dsr_ 6y ago

metalliqaz 6y ago

Yeah as much as my daughter likes the Trolls movie, I'm not paying to back that up.

EvanAnderson 6y ago
Redacted zfs send/receive in OpenZFS 2.0 might be interesting to you: https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/pull/7958 https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/pull/7958
- metalliqaz 6y ago
  I already have selective backups to Backblaze with rclone. The point is that home users can have good reasons for relying on redundancy.

mnd999 6y ago

2) and 3) requires a decent broadband upload speed. Home broadband often doesn’t provide this.

Fnoord 6y ago
Depends where you're from I guess. Its also just the first backup which takes a (long) while. If you got only 10 mbit upload, then you're able to upload 600 mbit per minute, or 36000 mbit per hour. Which is about 4500 mB/hour (or ~4,4 GB/hour). Which results in 108000 mB/day (or ~105 GB/day). Its about 3/4 of a TB a week. I'm glad I got 30+ mbit upload with my VDSL2. My first backups took ages (I got 5 TB with Jottacloud). First I thought it was Duplicati being slow with regards to cryptography or being .NET, but nope that ain't it. Incremental backups during night are not going to hamper the connection though.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  > Its about 3/4 of a TB a week. That's best case. Anyone who's done large transfers over the internet knows reality will be much worse.
- justinclift 6y ago
  Bearing in mind that it's likely not practical to use 100% of available upload bandwidth for extremely long periods of time. Generally speaking anyway. :)
  - Fnoord 6y ago
    True, you're both right, thanks. I should've added that as a disclaimer.

res0nat0r 6y ago

Backing up TB's of data isn't cheap no matter what type of cloud backup solution you're picking unfortunately. I don't think most here want to spend $1000/year on backing up their entire NAS.

Fnoord 6y ago
> I don't think most here want to spend $1000/year on backing up their entire NAS. These 2 solutions cost less than 10 USD/month: Jottacloud [1] and zfs.rent [2]. The former is even hosted in privacy-friendly Norway, and its 5 TB unlimited with going over that you get upload-capped. So I pay 90 EUR/year for Jottacloud. Which is approx 10% of your projected 1000 USD. [1] https://www.jottacloud.com/en/ https://www.jottacloud.com/en/ [2] https://zfs.rent/ https://zfs.rent/
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  What about the initial replication? My NAS is currently sitting at about 8TB used, which even at the maximum 10Mb/s upload of my current ISP (best in the area of course, because 'murika) would take 75 days. Your first link doesn't seem to say anything about alternatives for getting the initial data set to them, and your second link, well "We have queued up 200 users and have decided to close new requests for the time being. Please check back soon!" basically means it is imaginary for the time being.
  - Fnoord 6y ago
    Buy a second hand "enterprise" server and buy some new HDDs. Set the server up at work/home, and physically put the server at a data center near your vicinity. If you already live in USA, hosting elsewhere doesn't get you much. The problem with hosting in USA is for sensitive data for people outside of USA (EU for example).
- mindslight 6y ago
  1. "Unlimited" plans marketed for personal users are unsustainable, which is why they invariably push you into some proprietary app. Sure they might let you dump 24TB on it while they're growing, but they'll inevitably tighten that up. And a key feature of backups is long term - do you really want to be reuploading 24TB in a year or two? Look at their business pricing for the actual no-nonsense cost. 2. You can build a 8TBx4+2 raidz2 with EasyStores for $720. Backing that up to a raidz1 zfs.rent is $1200 for a single year. $2500 for 3 years by prepurchasing the drives. An estimate of $1000/year for full cloud backups isn't wrong.