10 ms·
Centos.rip
- alfyboy 6y agoWhat is the context behind this?
- darkr 6y agohttps://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-announce/2020-December/048208.html https://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-announce/2020-Dece...
- znpy 6y agoCentOS is dead, basically. It was announced yesterday.
- bem94 6y agohttps://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-announce/2020-December/048208.html https://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-announce/2020-Dece...
- alfyboy 6y agoOh, wow. I'm running CentOS 8 on my home server. Anyone have any recomendations for a good, stable, home server OS?
- acdha 6y agoDebian's been a solid choice since the 1990s…
- pluc 6y agoSo good Ubuntu runs it
- znpy 6y agoAssuming that CentOS stays dead, I'd probably recommend Ubuntu LTS. I should probably give a look at openSuse...
- DethNinja 6y agoUbuntu server is pretty good.
- walrus01 6y agodebian-stable amd64
- new23d 6y agoAny Ubuntu LTS version is solid. Switch to the LTS kernel as well if you can, i.e. if your hardware does not need the HWE (Hardware Enablement) versions. The HWE kernels are mostly for newish laptops anyway and proper server hardware shouldn't need it.
- idclip 6y agoarch or freebsd. Ubuntu lts/debian depends on ur packages. Freebsd isnt linux, but is great server OS.
- tecleandor 6y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25345428 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25345428
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- jedimastert 6y agoWhile this is super fun, can I get more informative link? I don't follow Red Hat and for someone reason google is not helping me Edit: Comment below beat me to it, nvm
- bitcharmer 6y agoI think we all knew this was coming when IBM acquired RedHat. Does anyone know if the licensing is permissive enough to enable Centos spin-offs? If that's possible there's a decent chance some company will jump on it and fill the void.
- znpy 6y agoOne could pull the same trick that CentOS pulled: check-out all the sources, replace all the logos and trademarks and rebuild. I honestly hope this is what's going to happen.
- speeder 6y agoTheoretically, CentOS was the RHEL source release. Now that this changed, I wonder, do RHEL sources are still available 100% identical to their binary? Or the announcement yesterday just broke GPL2 compliance?
- macksd 6y agoThe original CentOS founder already announced his intention to do exactly that. I believe it's going to land here: https://github.com/hpcng/rocky https://github.com/hpcng/rocky. The thread about the CentOS Stream announcement yesterday had references to other efforts too.
- znpy 6y agoThat man is a treasure.
- swinglock 6y agohttps://lwn.net/Articles/786422/ https://lwn.net/Articles/786422/ That didn't age well. Maybe we'll see a Scientific Linux comeback.
- bayindirh 6y agoI'm not sure that CERN would like to work on it full steam but, it'd be great though.
- znpy 6y agoThat was a good laugh, thank you. Now it's time to go back at freaking out.
- edsemail123 6y agoFreaking out over what? CentOS stopped being a production OS as soon as "I've Been Moved" ingested it...were you just not paying attention? ;)
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y agoThere is a difference between thinking that something might happen, and seeing it actually come to pass.
- oniskanen 6y agoCentOS has been my go-to distro for small personal projects. Any recommendations for upcoming projects?
- ddevault 6y agoI would advise anyone who's using this as an opportunity to move on to greener pastures in terms of distributions to consider Alpine Linux: https://alpinelinux.org https://alpinelinux.org SourceHut runs entirely on Alpine, as do my personal workstations. It is extremely reliable, stable, and robust; maintainable over long periods of time with minimal effort; and small and simple enough to be easily understood by everyone responsible for its use on your teams. The package repositories are somewhat small - you may have to write some packages yourself, but don't be afraid of that. It's very easy and you would be well-advised to learn how it's done if you're going to invest in any distro. I consider Alpine Linux to be a competitive advantage for my business. CentOS and RHEL provide the illusion of stability and an executive who will weep and beg for forgiveness when it breaks, but true stability is only possible through simplicity.
- mhd 6y agoI mostly hear Alpine in the context of either embedded systems or tiny docker images. I'm not even that worried about the server, but one of the neat things about CentOS was that I could run the same or a related (Fedora) system on my dev machine, too. So I'd be interested in reading more about your experience with it as a workstation system. Do you use this as a main development machine or "just" for testing server stuff?
- ddevault 6y agoI use it as my main development workstation as well. It should be stated that I use a fairly minimal workstation setup, however - I use sway, a web browser, and a terminal emulator, and that's it for graphical software on the typical day.
- anonunivgrad 6y agoTwo totally different markets. RHEL (and its free clone, CentOS, rip) are for regulated industries or anyone who values extreme stability over any newness. You can turn updates on and feel as safe as you can be against known exploits while at the same time feeling as confident as you can that your stuff won’t break. Once or twice a decade, you port to a new version and then go back to not thinking about it too much.
- JayDoubleu 6y agoThis should really be called RIP RedHat tbh. They've just shot themselves in both feet.
- api 6y agoWhy the hell do huge companies spend tons to acquire things and then kill them? This seems to happen more in computing than other industries. You don't see shipping companies buying completely functional container ships so they can park them out in the middle of the ocean and dynamite a hole in the hull and watch them go glug glug glug for the lulz.
- gameswithgo 6y agohappened to me in publishing. we had built our own online portal to our legal book products, couple million a year in revenue and growing, bought by Reuters, everything shut down, didn’t even bother to look into keeping any of our talent around either. it was weird! severance package was great though.
- rapnie 6y agoThe 'remove-competitor-while-still-cheap-to-do-so' rationale then, probably.
- qz2 6y agoYep they are bastards. Watch Microsoft carefully.
- dsign 6y agoMany reasons: - Eliminate a competitor - Absorb another company's team Not all the reasons are as macabre as they sound; sometimes the bought company failed to monetize properly whatever they were doing, and their developers decided it was time to stop eating from bean cans. In those cases an acquisition can improve their diet slightly.
- dpcx 6y agoI would think for some it's the acquihire, for some it's a way of preventing competition...
- mhd 6y agoMy existential dread about this is worsened when I read suggestions that the best possible alternative is Oracle Linux...
- JayDoubleu 6y agoOracle linux is not an alternative to anything. Anything with the name Oracle is no longer alternative to anything either.
- igotroot 6y agoNo bullshit, but my org went to Oracle Linux and we haven't had any issues whatsoever. Not saying to switch to it, but it isn't like the server implodes if you disconnect a credit card swiper from it.
- CydeWeys 6y agoTechnical problems aren't the primary reason people recommend against using Oracle, it's the extortion that happens further down the road once they've got you locked in. And in the case of Oracle Linux, that seems to be almost a certainty at some point.
- igotroot 6y agoFair point, they don't have the best track record :)
- edsemail123 6y agoSame scenario as getting ingested by IBM after all
- mhd 6y agoI've always saw it as IBM = rabid salesmen, Oracle = rabid lawyers.
- api 6y agoThe writing's been on the wall ever since IBM acquired RedHat, not to mention the fact that the Linux world is otherwise converging on Debian-derived distros. I personally hope the Linux world converges. There are too many needless distributions whose only major difference is branding and a few file locations and other minor quibbling choices. There is absolutely no value in having both a Debian and RedHat/CentOS in the world other than annoying people who want to distribute software for Linux by making them support two package managers.
- Nullabillity 6y agoEh, while I agree that RHEL feels pretty redundant in a world where Debian exists, there are some distros that absolutely bring something new that you couldn't do as a Debian downstream (in particular, NixOS).
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago> the Linux world is otherwise converging on Debian-derived distros NixOS seems to be taking off, Alpine is most used in containers but is great on bare metal, Arch Linux remains a pillar of the wider community, Void is still going strong. Debian is excellent, but it's not the world.
- walrus01 6y agoas a side note, the design of the parody centos.rip website is a pretty decent clean wordpress or other CMS template, if they didn't build it by hand.
- RMPR 6y agoThe responsiveness is clunky though. Horizontal scrolling appears on my mobile device
- skrebbel 6y agoNot knowing much about Linux distros, can anyone explain the popularity of CentOS to me? I mean, having used it only a few times, my impression of CentOS is "a Linux with lots of horribly outdated software, in the name of compatibility and well-testedness". Eg when I used it last, the PHP version it shipped with was 8 years old. Now, I understand the appeal of that to certain super risk averse enterprises who value stability over any kind of developer or user happiness (including the ability to run latests versions of userland software that happens to require somewhat recent php/python/etc versions). But aren't those exactly the kinds of enterprises that would want normal RHEL licenses anyway? If you scratch those out, what audience is left? Why would I run such ancient software for any technical reason? I know this sounds dismissive, but I don't know how else to formulate this and I'd like to understand this. I think I understand RHEL and I think I understand Fedora, but I never got the appeal of CentOS.
- walrus01 6y agoIt is indeed extremely conservative and behind the cutting edge on many things. Thus it's incorporated into things that need to 'just work' but don't need any advanced features, like the freepbx version of the main centos distro (a custom distro shipped by the sangoma company which now owns asterisk). Generally whatever is in it is even older than debian-stable which also take a very conservative and cautious approach to rolling out new packages. If you need to install a specific new version of a thing there is always elrepo and EPEL, which you can enable as a custom repository. I have one system that has a very recent 5.x series kernel running on a voip server, as a xen guest, because performance is much better with a kernel that's aware of all the most recent inter-kernel xen paravirtualization hooks. http://elrepo.org/tiki/HomePage http://elrepo.org/tiki/HomePage https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL example from my notes follows. sudo rpm --import https://www.elrepo.org/RPM-GPG-KEY-elrepo.org https://www.elrepo.org/RPM-GPG-KEY-elrepo.org sudo yum install https://www.elrepo.org/elrepo-release-7.el7.elrepo.noarch.rpm https://www.elrepo.org/elrepo-release-7.el7.elrepo.noarch.rp... [myusername@freepbx ~]$ sudo yum --enablerepo=elrepo-kernel install kernel-ml Loaded plugins: fastestmirror, versionlock Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile * elrepo: elrepo.org * elrepo-kernel: elrepo.org elrepo | 2.9 kB 00:00:00 elrepo-kernel | 2.9 kB 00:00:00 sng-base | 3.6 kB 00:00:00 sng-epel | 2.9 kB 00:00:00 sng-extras | 2.9 kB 00:00:00 sng-pkgs | 3.4 kB 00:00:00 sng-updates | 2.9 kB 00:00:00 (1/3): sng-pkgs/7-8.2003.3.el7.sangoma/x86_64/primary_db | 782 kB 00:00:00 (2/3): elrepo/primary_db | 479 kB 00:00:00 (3/3): elrepo-kernel/primary_db | 1.9 MB 00:00:01 Resolving Dependencies --> Running transaction check ---> Package kernel-ml.x86_64 0:5.9.7-1.el7.elrepo will be installed --> Finished Dependency Resolution Dependencies Resolved ============================================================ Package Arch Version Repository Size ============================================================ Installing: kernel-ml x86_64 5.9.7-1.el7.elrepo elrepo-kernel 51 M Transaction Summary ============================================================ Install 1 Package Total download size: 51 M Installed size: 233 M Is this ok [y/d/N]: y Downloading packages: kernel-ml-5.9.7-1.el7.elrepo.x86_64.rpm | 51 MB 00:00:03 Running transaction check Running transaction test Transaction test succeeded Running transaction Installing : kernel-ml-5.9.7-1.el7.elrepo.x86_64 1/1 Verifying : kernel-ml-5.9.7-1.el7.elrepo.x86_64 1/1 Installed: kernel-ml.x86_64 0:5.9.7-1.el7.elrepo Complete! may need to set the new kernel to boot in /etc/default/grub https://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/Grub2 https://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/Grub2 [myusername@freepbx ~]$ sudo awk -F\' '$1=="menuentry " {print i++ " : " $2}' /etc/grub2.cfg [sudo] password for myusername: 0 : Sangoma Linux (5.9.7-1.el7.elrepo.x86_64) 7 (Core) 1 : Sangoma Linux (3.10.0-1127.10.1.el7.x86_64) 7 (Core) grub2-set-default 0 reboot ssh to the system [myusername@freepbx ~]$ uname -a Linux freepbx.sangoma.local 5.9.7-1.el7.elrepo.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Nov 10 09:56:43 EST 2020 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux confirm that we're using the xen PV on HVM drivers in the kernel for much better performance [root@freepbx .ssh]# dmesg |grep -i xen [ 0.000000] DMI: Xen HVM domU, BIOS 4.11.4 10/01/2020 [ 0.000000] Hypervisor detected: Xen HVM [ 0.000000] Xen version 4.11. [ 0.000000] Xen Platform PCI: I/O protocol version 1 [ 0.000000] Netfront and the Xen platform PCI driver have been compiled for this kernel: unplug emulated NICs. [ 0.000000] Blkfront and the Xen platform PCI driver have been compiled for this kernel: unplug emulated disks. [ 0.034434] ACPI: RSDP 0x00000000000F5A30 000024 (v02 Xen ) [ 0.034440] ACPI: XSDT 0x00000000FC00A8D0 000054 (v01 Xen HVM 00000000 HVML 00000000) [ 0.034448] ACPI: FACP 0x00000000FC00A5F0 0000F4 (v04 Xen HVM 00000000 HVML 00000000) [ 0.034456] ACPI: DSDT 0x00000000FC0012C0 0092A3 (v02 Xen HVM 00000000 INTL 20181213) [ 0.034469] ACPI: APIC 0x00000000FC00A6F0 000070 (v02 Xen HVM 00000000 HVML 00000000) [ 0.034474] ACPI: HPET 0x00000000FC00A7E0 000038 (v01 Xen HVM 00000000 HVML 00000000) [ 0.034478] ACPI: WAET 0x00000000FC00A820 000028 (v01 Xen HVM 00000000 HVML 00000000) [ 0.034483] ACPI: SSDT 0x00000000FC00A850 000031 (v02 Xen HVM 00000000 INTL 20181213) [ 0.034487] ACPI: SSDT 0x00000000FC00A890 000031 (v02 Xen HVM 00000000 INTL 20181213) [ 0.040587] Booting paravirtualized kernel on Xen HVM [ 0.040782] xen: PV spinlocks enabled [ 0.065203] xen:events: Using FIFO-based ABI [ 0.065210] xen:events: Xen HVM callback vector for event delivery is enabled [ 0.137093] clocksource: xen: mask: 0xffffffffffffffff max_cycles: 0x1cd42e4dffb, max_idle_ns: 881590591483 ns [ 0.137105] Xen: using vcpuop timer interface [ 0.137113] installing Xen timer for CPU 0 [ 0.137489] installing Xen timer for CPU 1 [ 0.140515] xenbus: xs_reset_watches failed: -38 [ 0.504443] xen: --> pirq=16 -> irq=9 (gsi=9) [ 0.560804] xen:balloon: Initialising balloon driver [ 0.578529] clocksource: Switched to clocksource xen [ 0.593233] xen: --> pirq=17 -> irq=8 (gsi=8) [ 0.593278] xen: --> pirq=18 -> irq=12 (gsi=12) [ 0.593321] xen: --> pirq=19 -> irq=1 (gsi=1) [ 0.593362] xen: --> pirq=20 -> irq=6 (gsi=6) [ 0.981024] xen: --> pirq=21 -> irq=24 (gsi=24) [ 0.981232] xen:grant_table: Grant tables using version 1 layout [ 1.005806] xenbus_probe_frontend: Device with no driver: device/vbd/51712 [ 1.005806] xenbus_probe_frontend: Device with no driver: device/vkbd/0 [ 1.005807] xenbus_probe_frontend: Device with no driver: device/vif/0 [ 1.022168] systemd[1]: Detected virtualization xen. [ 1.436682] xen_netfront: Initialising Xen virtual ethernet driver [ 2.850090] input: Xen Virtual Keyboard as /devices/virtual/input/input6 [ 2.851114] input: Xen Virtual Pointer as /devices/virtual/input/input7
- Pet_Ant 6y agoI hope someone resurrects Whitebox Linux. I just liked the name and that it communicates litterally same thing as the other guy but cheaper since you aren’t paying for the brand. Might be able to pun off of “President’s Choice” = “PC” = “Personal Computer” somehow as well.
- someday_somehow 6y agoI hope IBM/Redhat see how negatively this decision has been received and announce a reversal in the coming few days.
- encom 6y ago1. Denial 2. Anger 3. Bargaining 4. Depression 5. Acceptance You are at 3.
- ossusermivami 6y agoI think I am 4, it's too hard for me to manage my own distro and update my packages when this will be EOL, so I have to wait and see, is there any alternative to CentOS aside of Debian and Ubuntu ? Thanks,
- ZWoz 6y agoYou can check out SUSE. Depending what you do, maybe go with FreeBSD instead linux.
- encom 6y agoWhy not Debian? I've always used either Debian or Gentoo, depending on what I'm doing. I know Gentoo isn't everyones cup of tea, but Debian seems similar enough to Centos in my eyes. EDIT: Reading elsewhere in the thread, the answer seems to be “enterprise”, which I consider something to be actively avoided.
- simonh 6y agoI appreciate the suggestions for alternative Linux server distros, and understand people asking about such, but CentOS wasn't just another decent Linux server distro. It's status as a direct rebuild of RHEL, crucially including robust binary compatibility, gave it a unique role. Ubuntu LTS, Alpine, Debian, etc are all fine distros but there's a particular role for a very precise completely open and free RHEL clone. Hopefully the same forces that lead to the creation of CentOS will Also lead to the establishment of a replacement project, and there are hopeful signs in that direction.
- RMPR 6y agoInb4 rocky linux[0] 0: https://news.itsfoss.com/rocky-linux-announcement/ https://news.itsfoss.com/rocky-linux-announcement/
- rntksi 6y agoI've had to argue a lot of time at work on the merit of running a Debian system. Everyone coming in has always been keen on just getting CentOS up for a server. Outside vendors also just tell me: "we need CentOS X for this", and I've never understood the reason for that. Having run both systems, I know that Debian is much more solid. Sometimes the argument even comes down to: "Oh but when I search online for guides, it's always RedHat/CentOS" It's driving me mad sometimes.
- broknbottle 6y agoThe one big issue with Debian is installing a package results in the service starting immediately. On CentOS and other distros this is not the case and the user has to start the service after the installation. I prefer the latter behavior as not everything I install is going to be a 24/7 service. I'd prefer not to mask some service because stopping and disabling leads to the service randomly starting after a package upgrade.
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y agoThe worse aspect in my mind is that when you install a new service, it will start with the default configuration before you have a chance to configure it.
- curt15 6y agoDebian is really unique in that does not totally rely on a single corporation's largess like Fedora (Red Hat), CentOS (Red Hat), or OpenSUSE (SUSE). Being a worldwide, community-run project, it has multiple stakeholders and no single point of failure.
- qalmakka 6y agoI personally hate Debian because of APT and the fact that it tends to do way too many things behind your back, things that sometimes backfire horrendously as soon as you stray too much from the path Debian dug (Ubuntu is the best example of how APT can self implode as soon as you start adding weird repositories and the scripts that keep Debian afloat start breaking). I've had to recover way too many Ubuntu installs to tolerate using APT any longer (in its defense, I understand it was designed by Debian, for Debian, and often Ubuntu abuses and misunderstands it), and while YUM/DNF aren't that much better, they're miles ahead APT in reliability and solidity, especially since RPM is arguably more reliable than DPKG, IMHO. You may well say that Arch Linux and the like, compared to Debian-based distributions, basically leave you in the middle of nowhere with just a knife and a rope, but at least you know what you signed for. Relying on fancy shmancy automatic configuration systems is often a recipe for disaster, especially if you plan to stray a lot from the defaults, because it's guaranteed you won't have any idea of what's happening when everything has turned south. For these and other reasons,I think that systems like BSDs are much, much more pleasant to use than Debian and Red Hat, but I understand why they might not be the right choice for everyone. Still, I can't but recommend everyone to give a shot at FreeBSD if your needs allow it.
- lovelearning 6y agoI was under the impression all these years that CentOS was not under RedHat supervision. Was I wrong, or did something change silently?
- AdmiralAsshat 6y agoThey were acquired by Red Hat in 2014 or so.
- mwcampbell 6y agoThis strikes me as an infantile response to a sensible business move. We need to grow up, realize that the free lunch is over, and pay for what we value. And developers, including large companies, need to stop coddling us by offering us their best work for free. Edit: "We" includes me; I should pay for more software too (not that I use any commercial software illegally; I only mean choosing paid products over free ones).
- speeder 6y agoWhat about companies like mine, that run their own servers, to do stuff that is a legal requirement, but don't have money to pay RHEL?
- stonedeaf 6y agoThe biggest issue here is that they've went back on supporting till 2029 and given folks till this time next year to have a replacement solution in place. I'm all for supporting the continuation of services I enjoy and make use of, but this is a huge stab in the back. Most people will probably be fine with Stream, but it's not what CentOS users signed up for.
- jankotek 6y ago"free lunch" is just untrue. Opensource and GPL does not work this way. Also Redhat just cut support on one of its projects. Their business model is build on their reputation and long term support. Not best long term move.
- asadkn 6y agoBeing out of touch from the Linux distro world, this is rather sudden. I still run CentOS on many of my dedicated servers (now known as bare-metal) from a decade ago. While almost everything else was all custom-built anyways, I guess the lack of core updates is going to be a problem. Though, CentOS 6 was going to reach EOL soon anyways.
- syntheticnature 6y agoSoon as in over week ago (November 30th), just FYI.
- Foxboron 6y agoThe text is copied from when the Antergos distro told their users they would still get updates. https://web.archive.org/web/20190808223051/https://antergos.com/blog/antergos-linux-project-ends/ https://web.archive.org/web/20190808223051/https://antergos....
- mxuribe 6y agoI'm still keeping my fingers crossed for IBM to "nudge" (force?) RedHat to roll out a new distro named Red Hat Universal Blue Linux or RHUB Linux...Just so that i can use loads of awful Dad jokes related to linux and Rube Goldberg devices. (Disclaimer: I love me some linux tons, but love me some Dad jokes even more.)
- silentsysadmin 6y agoChanging EoL to 2021 is absolutely unacceptable! CentOS impressed me so much in the years I've been using it that I wanted to grab a RHCSE and start recommending subscriptions to my clients. After pulling the rug out from under my feet I will no longer be interested in recommending anything under the Red Hat brand. We will migrate to another solution for our internal systems and not look back.
- ossusermivami 6y agoI'd love to know what the Red Hat employee are saying internally i am sure it's a big shithole right know,
- tekmonks 6y agoWe are creating the next RHEL based Enterprise Linux - same as CentOS used to be. Targeted first release is January 31, 2021. Looking for both volunteers or people who want to be paid for their efforts. Join us to secure Enterprise Linux as a free (as in beer and freedom) for the foreseeable future. https://monkos.org https://monkos.org