4 ms·

Drone attacks on wedding parties are what I use to differentiate Trump from Obama (and Bush and Clinton). I think the issue in your framing is lumping trump wit

Drone attacks on wedding parties are what I use to differentiate Trump from Obama (and Bush and Clinton). I think the issue in your framing is lumping trump with bush when in reality, obama and bush are more alike (whether it is the merciless killing of people expressing sovereignty against an invading army or bailouts of wall street and wall street alone to the tune of trillions of dollars). Contrast that to Trump (who I am not a fan of) with zero wars started (despite ample opportunity in yemen) and a covid bailout that directly went to the people. Again, I did not vote for the man but facts matter, please don't get fooled by the same agenda even if executed by two (or three) different administrations with technically opposing parties.

mikeyouse 6y ago
You are aware that Trump dramatically expanded the drone wars and loosened targeting criteria on those same drones resulting in far more strikes with far more civilian casualties?[1] The only reason it’s not in the news (besides the constant chaos in the White House sucking up news cycles) is because he also signed an executive order removing the requirement that we report all civilian deaths.[2] Pretending that Donald “Take out the Terrorists’ families” Trump is a some kind of dove is a new one, especially when he’s still trying to attack Iran during his final lame duck days in office. [1]- https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2020/Rising%20Civilian%20Death%20Toll%20in%20Afghanistan_Costs%20of%20War_Dec%207%202020.pdf https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/20... [2] - https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-revocation-reporting-requirement/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-or...
- Der_Einzige 6y ago
  Thank you for calling this out. Too often people parrot the same stupid line about Obama and drone strikes without the context here. No, trump is not some dove who cares about minimizing suffering. He did more drone strikes, with more flimsy justifications, resulting in more deaths and destruction than any president in history including Obama. Yeah, and trump has not started any additional wars. That is true. However, the constant saber rattling vs iran as well as the "bloody nose" option vs north korea (a premptive nuclear strike) were openly floated by Trump and his administration. Trump would go for war if he believed it would be good for him. Honestly, trump may still be president if he had attacked iran... Trump's own miscalculations are ironically what kept him being so "dovish". Republicans talk a good game about being doves but they want a hawk. They might not admit it openly because dear leader didn't attack iran yet - but if he had - trump's base would claim that iran should have been invaded forever ago...
subliun 6y ago
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/trump-afghanistan-airstrikes-increased-civilian-deaths-by-330-since-2016-2020-12 https://www.businessinsider.com.au/trump-afghanistan-airstri... https://theintercept.com/2019/10/02/trump-impeachment-civilian-casualties-war/ https://theintercept.com/2019/10/02/trump-impeachment-civili... Civilian casualties have substantially increased under Trump. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-saudi-arms-congress-idUSKBN1942GG https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-saudi-arms-congress-i... He has resumed arms sales to the Saudis for their bombing campaign in Yemen. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207 And suspended reporting on civilian casualties. Oddly enough I think the fact that I see comments like yours so frequently is the biggest possible endorsement of his no-reporting policy. The amount of praise Trump receives for being 'anti-war', despite ample evidence to the contrary, is a good lesson for future establishments on the negative effect of transparency in such matters.
- isaacremuant 6y ago
  https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/under-obama-men-killed-by-drones-are-presumed-to-be-terrorists/257749/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/under-o... Obama classified military aged men (>= 16) as non civilians when killed by drones so those numbers are abslutaly skewed. He also had signature strikes, the disposition matrix, expanded/initiated drone/bombing campaigns to an absurd and terrible degree. Obama is a great example where partisanship makes people defend anything he did even where he was worse than Bush (And Trump has been criticized even more than Bush For less than Bush/Obama). Trying to rewrite history to align party lines or "Orangemanbad" narratives doesn't really work. Finally, it's disingenuous calling Obama's administration transparent when it was anything but. Even the ACLU said so and he was absolutely at war with whistleblowers.

mikeyouse 6y ago

You are aware that Trump dramatically expanded the drone wars and loosened targeting criteria on those same drones resulting in far more strikes with far more civilian casualties?[1] The only reason it’s not in the news (besides the constant chaos in the White House sucking up news cycles) is because he also signed an executive order removing the requirement that we report all civilian deaths.[2] Pretending that Donald “Take out the Terrorists’ families” Trump is a some kind of dove is a new one, especially when he’s still trying to attack Iran during his final lame duck days in office. [1]- https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2020/Rising%20Civilian%20Death%20Toll%20in%20Afghanistan_Costs%20of%20War_Dec%207%202020.pdf https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/20... [2] - https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-revocation-reporting-requirement/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-or...

Der_Einzige 6y ago
Thank you for calling this out. Too often people parrot the same stupid line about Obama and drone strikes without the context here. No, trump is not some dove who cares about minimizing suffering. He did more drone strikes, with more flimsy justifications, resulting in more deaths and destruction than any president in history including Obama. Yeah, and trump has not started any additional wars. That is true. However, the constant saber rattling vs iran as well as the "bloody nose" option vs north korea (a premptive nuclear strike) were openly floated by Trump and his administration. Trump would go for war if he believed it would be good for him. Honestly, trump may still be president if he had attacked iran... Trump's own miscalculations are ironically what kept him being so "dovish". Republicans talk a good game about being doves but they want a hawk. They might not admit it openly because dear leader didn't attack iran yet - but if he had - trump's base would claim that iran should have been invaded forever ago...

subliun 6y ago

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/trump-afghanistan-airstrikes-increased-civilian-deaths-by-330-since-2016-2020-12 https://www.businessinsider.com.au/trump-afghanistan-airstri... https://theintercept.com/2019/10/02/trump-impeachment-civilian-casualties-war/ https://theintercept.com/2019/10/02/trump-impeachment-civili... Civilian casualties have substantially increased under Trump. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-saudi-arms-congress-idUSKBN1942GG https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-saudi-arms-congress-i... He has resumed arms sales to the Saudis for their bombing campaign in Yemen. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207 And suspended reporting on civilian casualties. Oddly enough I think the fact that I see comments like yours so frequently is the biggest possible endorsement of his no-reporting policy. The amount of praise Trump receives for being 'anti-war', despite ample evidence to the contrary, is a good lesson for future establishments on the negative effect of transparency in such matters.

isaacremuant 6y ago
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/under-obama-men-killed-by-drones-are-presumed-to-be-terrorists/257749/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/under-o... Obama classified military aged men (>= 16) as non civilians when killed by drones so those numbers are abslutaly skewed. He also had signature strikes, the disposition matrix, expanded/initiated drone/bombing campaigns to an absurd and terrible degree. Obama is a great example where partisanship makes people defend anything he did even where he was worse than Bush (And Trump has been criticized even more than Bush For less than Bush/Obama). Trying to rewrite history to align party lines or "Orangemanbad" narratives doesn't really work. Finally, it's disingenuous calling Obama's administration transparent when it was anything but. Even the ACLU said so and he was absolutely at war with whistleblowers.