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Go ahead and call me a fanboy but... Apple really nails the "it just works". I'm a software engineer, and I'm happy to get my hands dirty with some code. But

Go ahead and call me a fanboy but... Apple really nails the "it just works". I'm a software engineer, and I'm happy to get my hands dirty with some code. But when it comes to my devices, I really don't want to waste my time trying to figure out why this or that device, doesn't pair with, or work well with, my other device. Apple just does this better than anyone else. I recently got an Apple watch and the setup process was sublime. Pairing with all my other devices, was effortless. Instantly my watch was "mine" with everything I need on it. The LTE setup was mostly painless too. There was a bug in the process that was on Verizon's end, but other than that, getting my phone paired to my number was a breeze. The pairing with my phone, and my mac, is what makes this whole ecosystem special. It just works, and it works pretty damn well. Yes, you can get most of this functionality on a windows or linux machine, with an android phone, airpod replicas, and an android based smart watch but the fluidity of the apple integration is unmatched. This is what (some) people are willing to pay more for.

subpixel 6y ago
I loved my AirPods. Then the batteries gave up the ghost, and I was left with small, expensive, probably toxic electronic garbage. It ruined the brand for me and I can't imagine buying another pair of AirPods.
- nouveaux 6y ago
  While it sucks that your batteries are bad, Apple will recycle the toxic electronics.
- throwaway9980 6y ago
  But at least it’s small? I mean, one dead laptop is the equivalent of many lifetimes worth of AirPods in terms of waste. Of all the things that could be disposable this seems like the least concerning. A Tesla contains orders of magnitudes more plastic, electronics, and batteries that will one day be junk and you will go through maybe 3 sets of AirPods before you trade in for a newer model EV?
  - judge2020 6y ago
    Cars in general are pretty wasteful, even outside of the manufacturing process. I'd be surprised if Teslas wasted more raw 'energy' when totaled compared to the waste caused by extracting, refining, transporting, and then burning oil and all the human labor that goes into that.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      They don't, only a fraction of a typical car's lifetime emissions come from its manufacturing process.
  - grogenaut 6y ago
    There are orders of magnitude more consumer devices than cars.
- toxik 6y ago
  Surely it will be possible to replace them in repair shops? Not for the home gamer obviously, but neither are screen repairs - and I’m really happy with my third party screen repair. My AirPods also lack battery capacity now, to a degree that it’s annoyingly short. I accidentally came over a second pair, but yeah a new pair of earphones every two to three years sounds expensive to me. Problem is, they work so spectacularly well otherwise that I don’t know how that I could stand anything else. Part of this is that Apple seem to intentionally make other headsets work less well. For example by not routing calls through the headset by default, such a joke.
  - quicklime 6y ago
    There was an article on HN recently about someone who took apart their AirPods. The battery was glued in, and not possible to remove and replace.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      An even larger issue is that taking it apart at all requires destroying the device.
    - toxik 6y ago
      I've seen people take apart them on YouTube for silly mods before, should surely be possible? Maybe with a heatgun?
      - toxik 6y ago
        Just checked. Yes, you can.
- reaperducer 6y ago
  Out-of-warranty battery replacement is $49.
  - kranner 6y ago
    If batteries last only a year and there is no third-party alternative, this is a subscription.
    - darthrupert 6y ago
      Why would they last only a year?
      - kranner 6y ago
        Others have said so elsewhere in the thread.
  - kemayo 6y ago
    I feel I should note that it's $49 each. Since the pair is presumably getting similar battery wear, it's likely that this is in-practice a $100 fee.
    - subpixel 6y ago
      That is so Apple, I can't stand it.
- donor20 6y ago
  Umm. - Do an in warranty battery replacement (within 1 year) - Pay a repair shop or apple for a new battery. - Apple runs one of the most comprehensive recycling and trade-in programs out there. Every store offers both trade-in value for devices that have it and free recycling for those that don't. https://www.apple.com/recycling/nationalservices/ https://www.apple.com/recycling/nationalservices/ - They will send you a fedex label if you want to fedex in your airpods for recycling if you are too lazy to actually go to a store. People helping the environment are out there doing it, and others sit on HN too lazy to take even the minimal steps to reduce their impact. And no, other companies you buy your totally wireless bluetooth headphones from do not make all this easier, but MUCH MUCH harder.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    That "warranty battery replacement" is almost certainly going to be giving you a new pair of AirPods.
recursive 6y ago
I don't have much experience with Apple stuff, but recently I was tasked with getting a Macbook onto the most recent OS revision. I actually never managed to do it, and had to call for backup. In order to eventually do it, this other person had to install multiple updates, each of which seemed to only be accessible from some different piece of UI, and a lot of the process seemed to trial and error and dead-ends. I don't think Apple stuff "just works" nearly as well as people claim it does.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- aksss 6y ago
  No, and with the update process it really shows. Because Microsoft has had to pay so much attention to it - and maybe Apple has not - the Windows update process is at the very least far more informative about what’s going on - status of installation before and after any reboot. Updating OS on wife’s MacBook seems like comparatively opaque process. Which is fine if things “always work”, but they don’t.
  - mypalmike 6y ago
    Yeah I'm a MacOS fanboy, but it really irked me when they got rid of the (hard to find but extremely useful) log output during OS updates a few major versions back. It saved me a lot of time once when it showed that it was backing up files that I didn't care about. Now there is no option to view the log during installation. I've been fortunate to never run into any failed updates (and I've done many) but as they remove features like this and 32 bit support, I'm looking at other options for my next machine.
- jonhohle 6y ago
  Having performed every OS update from OS X Jaguar (10.2) to macOS Big Sur, I'm surprised by your experience. macOS releases have always been complete and not in place upgrades over previous versions. Once the OS releases became free and were no longer distributed on physical media there was a time when releases would be downloaded from the App Store. OS updates have moved from a dedicated Software Update app, to the App Store app and now into System Preferences. For I'm not sure how long, OS installations have been effectively click and approve the license with no other input required for the past decade (and with increasingly less information displayed during the install process). I've recently installed OS X 10.4 Tiger (from 2005) and Windows 8 Pro, both from original media to blank drives, the OS X installation was much less frustrating (most notably because I didn't have to dig up a license key).
kriro 6y ago
Maybe if you stay in the ecosystem. I used an end of 2013 Macbook Pro at work that was bought for a research project. Latest hardware at the time. Had all kinds of problems connecting it to my Android phone. Apple "just works" is a myth. I have had as many problems with Apple hardware as with most other hardware. The chances that some random device will "just work" is probably highest for Windows 10. I'm saying that as a Linux user (by choice) and sometimes forced Windows 10 and OSX user. I also recall some issues when developing Arduino stuff because of the USB connection to the Arduino.
- rubicon33 6y ago
  Definitely referring to "in ecosystem" here. If you want the best platform for connecting random vendors together, I would probably go with Windows/Microsoft. If you want the best platform for seamless vertical integration nothing is better than Apple. That's why people get so excited about new Apple products. It's a new shiny toy that they know will work excellently within their ecosystem.
  - alwillis 6y ago
    If you want the best platform for connecting random vendors together, I would probably go with Windows/Microsoft. I’ve have $10 Bluetooth earphones from CVS and Walgreens and have never had an issue using them with my iPhone or iMac. As long as the no-name stuff follows the specs, it just works in the Apple ecosystem.
- athms 6y ago
  >Maybe if you stay in the ecosystem. Not to discount your experiences, but I use FreeBSD, Windows, MacOS, iOS, and Android devices, professionally and personally, and I don't have many problems getting these devices to talk to each other. >Had all kinds of problems connecting it to my Android phone. MacOS doesn't have native MTP support. You can use a third party tool on MacOS or an SMB client on Android.
bluescrn 6y ago
"It just works" until the glued-in battery expires
- Ao7bei3s 6y ago
  Or: * Until they start rattling (https://techcrunch.com/2020/10/30/airpods-pro-rattling-crackling-sound-replacement/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/10/30/airpods-pro-rattling-crack...) * An automatic update you can't roll back makes noise cancellation worse (https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/17/21069953/apple-airpods-pro-noise-cancellation-problems-firmware-2b588-2c54 https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/17/21069953/apple-airpods-pr...) * They don't pair, or only one of them pairs, or they don't pair with each other (I personally have these three cases all the time) Apples marketing department just works.
- reaperducer 6y ago
  until the glued-in battery expires Which one is the high-end, comparable non-Apple model that I can slap a pair of AA batteries in? Go ahead. I'll wait.
  - throwaway201103 6y ago
    Well I like my Bose headphones, which use a single AAA battery but they are corded. Wireless anything is a hard no for me due to poor experience with it. I know a lot of people disagree.
    - reaperducer 6y ago
      Wireless anything is a hard no for me So why are you even posting in a topic about a pair of wireless headphones? You're not the market. You have no recent experience with similar products. What was your point?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
Aeolun 6y ago
I think this is partially because they just elect not to support anything that would make it too hard to do that. Everything on my Apple Watch just works, but I can do much more things with my 8 year old android smartwatch.
- redler 6y ago
  What sorts of things can the old watch do that the Apple Watch cannot?
aye01 6y ago
I have a different take on this. I'm an apple machine user. I work on an iMac Pro everyday and have used mac/ios for over a decade. But i've also extensively used Android, Windows, Linux etc extensively. From what I've experienced it is true that when using apple with apple, it just works. that is true and i won't dispute that. they own the ecosystem so they can handle the integration well, obiously. But the opposite is also true. When using apple with non apple, it (sometimes) just doesn't work or works poorly. When i use the same device on Windows or Android (linux is a different beast), it just works when it won't with iOS or Mac. and sometimes i just want to use a brand thats not apple... I think for many apple users these days, they believe that Android/Windows still have the problems they faced back in 2009 and havent extensively used either since switching. Android pairs newer bluetooth devices essentially the same way apple pairs airpods now and windows doesnt still have all the issues from windows vista that made them switch in the first place and has support for way more devices than apple ever will. I'm not trying to make the point that one is better than the other, my point for apple users is that the experience on windows/android isn't as bad as they think it is and my point for windows/android users is that you're not missing out on much or anything at all from the apple ecosystem. Buy devices that fit your use case and budget. its as simple as that.
- freedomben 6y ago
  I think you've nailed it. I also made this observation. So many time I'll be talking to another dev about macOS v. linux for example, and they'll say something like, "I don't want to have to compile my kernel" or they'll describe something that makes it clear they haven't tried any Linux distro in a long time. I'll usually ask, "when was the last time you tried it?" and at that point they'll usually realize what they're doing and say something like, "It's been probably 15 years, maybe things are better now?" Yes, things are better. If I compared the first iPhone to an Pixel 4, the iPhone isn't going to compare nicely. It's always worth making sure you are comparing apples to apples (no pun intended ;-))
  - BlackFingolfin 6y ago
    I've recently given Linux another try, for use on a machine meant as a media server, and also to drive my family "video call station" (i.e., combine big TV, webcam and a bluetooth audio widget with mic and speakers so that the kids can talk to their grandparents in COVID times). Went with the most main stream distro, Ubuntu 20.04. Result: couldn't get the Bluetooth conference widget working. Googled around for hours and tried all kinds of things, including compiling and installing kernel modules and replacing the bluetooth stack. Nothing worked. No, this is not an exotic non-standard protocol, it's a standard one (I think aptX or so? sorry, forgot the details again already; but I googled around and found lots of people with similar issues, and then many "solutions", none of which worked; see above) Anyway, I am back to plugging in my MacBook each time we want to video conference, and will soon install Windows on the media server (no matter how much I hate the thought). I really want to use Linux for this kind of stuff, but it's 2020 and I can't get a Bluetooth widget working that works flawlessly on various Macs, Windows machines, iPhone, iPad and an Android phone. So while things may be better, they are still far from where they could be, I am afraid.
threatofrain 6y ago
My experience with Apple recently has been quite rocky. I recommended a family purchase a MacBook Pro but they ended up getting bit by the keyboard bug, which basically compromises the entire experience really badly. I tried the Apple smart home ecology on the argument of privacy and I’m getting frustrated at the disparity in quality vs Google. For example, there’s a noticeable probability of multiple devices picking up AND redundantly entering a command, like adding a reminder. Often, often times, another Siri device will take over from the local one in front of me and say, “Sorry, I can’t do that,” even though it could if the right device picked up. Apple is still a top recommendation but they aren’t a no brainer. The more you use your brain the less you end up on the bad side of the Apple ecology, like with the sticky keyboard issue.
mhdhn 6y ago
It's not true. Take the Apple TV vs Roku. Roku is so easy to use, so reliable, similar capabilities. They just nail it. Apple TV's remote is so confusing error prone and unintuitive my wife refuses to touch it, and I make mistakes with it much more than Roku. We put up with it only for the exclusives (Apple TV, HBO Max) and Apple only features (Apple device mirroring)
- mulderc 6y ago
  My household has the opposite experience. Partner hates the roku remote and interface and vastly prefers the appleTV.
  - kitsunesoba 6y ago
    Same, everything else feels… "stiff" and somewhat clunky compared to an ATV4K, and the next best option Roku has serious privacy issues. I will say though that oddly, the Siri remote got a little worse in its ATV4K revision — most notably, triggering a jump back/forward 30s is much harder on the newer remote. As a result I've paired my old original Dev Kit remote with the ATV4K, which works beautifully.
- amznthrwaway 6y ago
  We have the opposite experience in our house. We got rid of our Rokus because everybody preferred the AppleTVs.
- commoner 6y ago
  Some Roku devices now have Apple device mirroring through AirPlay 2: https://support.roku.com/article/360057488733 https://support.roku.com/article/360057488733 Apple TV is also available as a Roku channel: https://channelstore.roku.com/details/a20e3c294993147c6cda435497594031/apple-tv https://channelstore.roku.com/details/a20e3c294993147c6cda43... Roku does not yet have HBO Max, but the two services are currently negotiating a deal to make it happen: https://www.cnet.com/news/hbo-max-exec-on-roku-deal-we-will-get-it-done/ https://www.cnet.com/news/hbo-max-exec-on-roku-deal-we-will-... In the meantime, HBO Max can be streamed to Roku from an Apple device via AirPlay 2: https://variety.com/2020/digital/news/roku-apple-airplay-4k-hbo-max-workaround-1234829003/ https://variety.com/2020/digital/news/roku-apple-airplay-4k-...
hotdeo 6y ago
Of course everyone's experience is different but Apple's software is pretty far from "Just Works". Especially their macos with the recent update to Big Sur as well as multiple OS updates during Catalina. In the 1 year I have owned a 16 inch macbook pro it's bricked on me twice because of their "Just Works" OS updates and had to take it to the Apple store to get it reset. Not to mention the issue of not being apple to open non-apple apps at one point due to a bug on their side. I have had issues with Windows and Linux, but nothing close to bricking my machine. It seems to me Apple's way of doing business is if it's not an Apple product, we have no interest. They really want to lock you in which is fine cause they are a business but that mindset is extremely dangerous in my opinion.
- three_seagrass 6y ago
  Yeah, I didn't have the "it just works" experience. The last iPhone I owned was an iPhone 3s, and an update nearly bricked it by slowing everything down on the phone. I guess "it just works" as long as you keep upgrading to their latest. That's true with deprecations in every product line, but it's not something I'd pay a premium for, especially when it doesn't exist.
  - rangibaby 6y ago
    iOS 4 murdered my iPod touch too. RIP
  - dmtroyer 6y ago
    I had a hell of a time with the floppy drive on my IIgs, too.
rangibaby 6y ago
Apple just works until it doesn’t. I have used Apple products for many years but a a perfectly fine 2013 15” MBP dying on me because of bad RAM has made me reconsider. That’s something that should be a cheap and quick replacement
- lostlogin 6y ago
  I assume it died a while back? A laptop dying after 7 years seems rather better than one could reasonable expect.
  - rangibaby 6y ago
    It was in excellent condition other than that, so I don’t think age matters. Do you think it’s reasonable to buy a whole new car because the tires are worn out?
lemming 6y ago
Apple really nails the "it just works". I'm all-in on Apple, and I don't see that changing. And generally, the above has been my experience too. But I recently bought a wireless magic keyboard and trackpad for a standing workstation with a monitor in the corner of our living room. I'd expected to be able to switch between our two laptops seamlessly so that whoever happened to need it could use it, but no - you have to explicitly unpair the keyboard and trackpad from one computer before re-pairing it to the other. That means finding it wherever my wife left it, turning it on or at a minimum logging in and all the rest of the dance, every single time. It drives me insane. I have a shitty $50 brand x bluetooth speaker that does it better than this. I want to listen to some music, I pair with it. My wife wants to listen to some music later? She just pairs to it and she's done. It doesn't seem that hard to get right.
- kemayo 6y ago
  Could be bad design, or could be good shared-space / privacy-focused design. Letting someone else yoink a connected input device in a hypothetical coffee shop or office with 50 people nearby is a recipe for annoyance or even for privacy-invasion. (Even if it only lets you grab devices you've previously been paired to, that's still an easy thing in an office where a lot of the equipment is more communal.) My recollection is that the magic keyboard / trackpad insta-pair if you connect them via wire. Would plugging them each in to a lightning cable for a second to switch their allegiance work better for you than manually unpairing? Obviously it's still a hassle.
  - lemming 6y ago
    My recollection is that the magic keyboard / trackpad insta-pair if you connect them via wire. I didn't know that, thanks - I'll try that. It's still a pain, but less so than having to track my wife's computer down. It does beg the question of why I'm going wireless at all, of course.
- danielscrubs 6y ago
  New Logitech master mouse I bought does it really well. One button under to switch between three computers. That said... I really hope we can move away from Bluetooth, it’s the least reliable and most errorprone thing on todays computers.
intellix 6y ago
I think Apple are long gone from "it just works" lately
minusf 6y ago
just having 2 apple id's (work vs home) completely breaks most services and devices for me. i wish it "just worked" though.

subpixel 6y ago

I loved my AirPods. Then the batteries gave up the ghost, and I was left with small, expensive, probably toxic electronic garbage. It ruined the brand for me and I can't imagine buying another pair of AirPods.

nouveaux 6y ago
While it sucks that your batteries are bad, Apple will recycle the toxic electronics.
throwaway9980 6y ago
But at least it’s small? I mean, one dead laptop is the equivalent of many lifetimes worth of AirPods in terms of waste. Of all the things that could be disposable this seems like the least concerning. A Tesla contains orders of magnitudes more plastic, electronics, and batteries that will one day be junk and you will go through maybe 3 sets of AirPods before you trade in for a newer model EV?
- judge2020 6y ago
  Cars in general are pretty wasteful, even outside of the manufacturing process. I'd be surprised if Teslas wasted more raw 'energy' when totaled compared to the waste caused by extracting, refining, transporting, and then burning oil and all the human labor that goes into that.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    They don't, only a fraction of a typical car's lifetime emissions come from its manufacturing process.
- grogenaut 6y ago
  There are orders of magnitude more consumer devices than cars.
toxik 6y ago
Surely it will be possible to replace them in repair shops? Not for the home gamer obviously, but neither are screen repairs - and I’m really happy with my third party screen repair. My AirPods also lack battery capacity now, to a degree that it’s annoyingly short. I accidentally came over a second pair, but yeah a new pair of earphones every two to three years sounds expensive to me. Problem is, they work so spectacularly well otherwise that I don’t know how that I could stand anything else. Part of this is that Apple seem to intentionally make other headsets work less well. For example by not routing calls through the headset by default, such a joke.
- quicklime 6y ago
  There was an article on HN recently about someone who took apart their AirPods. The battery was glued in, and not possible to remove and replace.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    An even larger issue is that taking it apart at all requires destroying the device.
  - toxik 6y ago
    I've seen people take apart them on YouTube for silly mods before, should surely be possible? Maybe with a heatgun?
    - toxik 6y ago
      Just checked. Yes, you can.
reaperducer 6y ago
Out-of-warranty battery replacement is $49.
- kranner 6y ago
  If batteries last only a year and there is no third-party alternative, this is a subscription.
  - darthrupert 6y ago
    Why would they last only a year?
    - kranner 6y ago
      Others have said so elsewhere in the thread.
- kemayo 6y ago
  I feel I should note that it's $49 each. Since the pair is presumably getting similar battery wear, it's likely that this is in-practice a $100 fee.
  - subpixel 6y ago
    That is so Apple, I can't stand it.
donor20 6y ago
Umm. - Do an in warranty battery replacement (within 1 year) - Pay a repair shop or apple for a new battery. - Apple runs one of the most comprehensive recycling and trade-in programs out there. Every store offers both trade-in value for devices that have it and free recycling for those that don't. https://www.apple.com/recycling/nationalservices/ https://www.apple.com/recycling/nationalservices/ - They will send you a fedex label if you want to fedex in your airpods for recycling if you are too lazy to actually go to a store. People helping the environment are out there doing it, and others sit on HN too lazy to take even the minimal steps to reduce their impact. And no, other companies you buy your totally wireless bluetooth headphones from do not make all this easier, but MUCH MUCH harder.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  That "warranty battery replacement" is almost certainly going to be giving you a new pair of AirPods.

recursive 6y ago

I don't have much experience with Apple stuff, but recently I was tasked with getting a Macbook onto the most recent OS revision. I actually never managed to do it, and had to call for backup. In order to eventually do it, this other person had to install multiple updates, each of which seemed to only be accessible from some different piece of UI, and a lot of the process seemed to trial and error and dead-ends. I don't think Apple stuff "just works" nearly as well as people claim it does.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
aksss 6y ago
No, and with the update process it really shows. Because Microsoft has had to pay so much attention to it - and maybe Apple has not - the Windows update process is at the very least far more informative about what’s going on - status of installation before and after any reboot. Updating OS on wife’s MacBook seems like comparatively opaque process. Which is fine if things “always work”, but they don’t.
- mypalmike 6y ago
  Yeah I'm a MacOS fanboy, but it really irked me when they got rid of the (hard to find but extremely useful) log output during OS updates a few major versions back. It saved me a lot of time once when it showed that it was backing up files that I didn't care about. Now there is no option to view the log during installation. I've been fortunate to never run into any failed updates (and I've done many) but as they remove features like this and 32 bit support, I'm looking at other options for my next machine.
jonhohle 6y ago
Having performed every OS update from OS X Jaguar (10.2) to macOS Big Sur, I'm surprised by your experience. macOS releases have always been complete and not in place upgrades over previous versions. Once the OS releases became free and were no longer distributed on physical media there was a time when releases would be downloaded from the App Store. OS updates have moved from a dedicated Software Update app, to the App Store app and now into System Preferences. For I'm not sure how long, OS installations have been effectively click and approve the license with no other input required for the past decade (and with increasingly less information displayed during the install process). I've recently installed OS X 10.4 Tiger (from 2005) and Windows 8 Pro, both from original media to blank drives, the OS X installation was much less frustrating (most notably because I didn't have to dig up a license key).

kriro 6y ago

Maybe if you stay in the ecosystem. I used an end of 2013 Macbook Pro at work that was bought for a research project. Latest hardware at the time. Had all kinds of problems connecting it to my Android phone. Apple "just works" is a myth. I have had as many problems with Apple hardware as with most other hardware. The chances that some random device will "just work" is probably highest for Windows 10. I'm saying that as a Linux user (by choice) and sometimes forced Windows 10 and OSX user. I also recall some issues when developing Arduino stuff because of the USB connection to the Arduino.

rubicon33 6y ago
Definitely referring to "in ecosystem" here. If you want the best platform for connecting random vendors together, I would probably go with Windows/Microsoft. If you want the best platform for seamless vertical integration nothing is better than Apple. That's why people get so excited about new Apple products. It's a new shiny toy that they know will work excellently within their ecosystem.
- alwillis 6y ago
  If you want the best platform for connecting random vendors together, I would probably go with Windows/Microsoft. I’ve have $10 Bluetooth earphones from CVS and Walgreens and have never had an issue using them with my iPhone or iMac. As long as the no-name stuff follows the specs, it just works in the Apple ecosystem.
athms 6y ago
>Maybe if you stay in the ecosystem. Not to discount your experiences, but I use FreeBSD, Windows, MacOS, iOS, and Android devices, professionally and personally, and I don't have many problems getting these devices to talk to each other. >Had all kinds of problems connecting it to my Android phone. MacOS doesn't have native MTP support. You can use a third party tool on MacOS or an SMB client on Android.

bluescrn 6y ago

"It just works" until the glued-in battery expires

Ao7bei3s 6y ago
Or: * Until they start rattling (https://techcrunch.com/2020/10/30/airpods-pro-rattling-crackling-sound-replacement/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/10/30/airpods-pro-rattling-crack...) * An automatic update you can't roll back makes noise cancellation worse (https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/17/21069953/apple-airpods-pro-noise-cancellation-problems-firmware-2b588-2c54 https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/17/21069953/apple-airpods-pr...) * They don't pair, or only one of them pairs, or they don't pair with each other (I personally have these three cases all the time) Apples marketing department just works.
reaperducer 6y ago
until the glued-in battery expires Which one is the high-end, comparable non-Apple model that I can slap a pair of AA batteries in? Go ahead. I'll wait.
- throwaway201103 6y ago
  Well I like my Bose headphones, which use a single AAA battery but they are corded. Wireless anything is a hard no for me due to poor experience with it. I know a lot of people disagree.
  - reaperducer 6y ago
    Wireless anything is a hard no for me So why are you even posting in a topic about a pair of wireless headphones? You're not the market. You have no recent experience with similar products. What was your point?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

Aeolun 6y ago

I think this is partially because they just elect not to support anything that would make it too hard to do that. Everything on my Apple Watch just works, but I can do much more things with my 8 year old android smartwatch.

redler 6y ago
What sorts of things can the old watch do that the Apple Watch cannot?

aye01 6y ago

I have a different take on this. I'm an apple machine user. I work on an iMac Pro everyday and have used mac/ios for over a decade. But i've also extensively used Android, Windows, Linux etc extensively. From what I've experienced it is true that when using apple with apple, it just works. that is true and i won't dispute that. they own the ecosystem so they can handle the integration well, obiously. But the opposite is also true. When using apple with non apple, it (sometimes) just doesn't work or works poorly. When i use the same device on Windows or Android (linux is a different beast), it just works when it won't with iOS or Mac. and sometimes i just want to use a brand thats not apple... I think for many apple users these days, they believe that Android/Windows still have the problems they faced back in 2009 and havent extensively used either since switching. Android pairs newer bluetooth devices essentially the same way apple pairs airpods now and windows doesnt still have all the issues from windows vista that made them switch in the first place and has support for way more devices than apple ever will. I'm not trying to make the point that one is better than the other, my point for apple users is that the experience on windows/android isn't as bad as they think it is and my point for windows/android users is that you're not missing out on much or anything at all from the apple ecosystem. Buy devices that fit your use case and budget. its as simple as that.

freedomben 6y ago
I think you've nailed it. I also made this observation. So many time I'll be talking to another dev about macOS v. linux for example, and they'll say something like, "I don't want to have to compile my kernel" or they'll describe something that makes it clear they haven't tried any Linux distro in a long time. I'll usually ask, "when was the last time you tried it?" and at that point they'll usually realize what they're doing and say something like, "It's been probably 15 years, maybe things are better now?" Yes, things are better. If I compared the first iPhone to an Pixel 4, the iPhone isn't going to compare nicely. It's always worth making sure you are comparing apples to apples (no pun intended ;-))
- BlackFingolfin 6y ago
  I've recently given Linux another try, for use on a machine meant as a media server, and also to drive my family "video call station" (i.e., combine big TV, webcam and a bluetooth audio widget with mic and speakers so that the kids can talk to their grandparents in COVID times). Went with the most main stream distro, Ubuntu 20.04. Result: couldn't get the Bluetooth conference widget working. Googled around for hours and tried all kinds of things, including compiling and installing kernel modules and replacing the bluetooth stack. Nothing worked. No, this is not an exotic non-standard protocol, it's a standard one (I think aptX or so? sorry, forgot the details again already; but I googled around and found lots of people with similar issues, and then many "solutions", none of which worked; see above) Anyway, I am back to plugging in my MacBook each time we want to video conference, and will soon install Windows on the media server (no matter how much I hate the thought). I really want to use Linux for this kind of stuff, but it's 2020 and I can't get a Bluetooth widget working that works flawlessly on various Macs, Windows machines, iPhone, iPad and an Android phone. So while things may be better, they are still far from where they could be, I am afraid.

threatofrain 6y ago

My experience with Apple recently has been quite rocky. I recommended a family purchase a MacBook Pro but they ended up getting bit by the keyboard bug, which basically compromises the entire experience really badly. I tried the Apple smart home ecology on the argument of privacy and I’m getting frustrated at the disparity in quality vs Google. For example, there’s a noticeable probability of multiple devices picking up AND redundantly entering a command, like adding a reminder. Often, often times, another Siri device will take over from the local one in front of me and say, “Sorry, I can’t do that,” even though it could if the right device picked up. Apple is still a top recommendation but they aren’t a no brainer. The more you use your brain the less you end up on the bad side of the Apple ecology, like with the sticky keyboard issue.

mhdhn 6y ago

It's not true. Take the Apple TV vs Roku. Roku is so easy to use, so reliable, similar capabilities. They just nail it. Apple TV's remote is so confusing error prone and unintuitive my wife refuses to touch it, and I make mistakes with it much more than Roku. We put up with it only for the exclusives (Apple TV, HBO Max) and Apple only features (Apple device mirroring)

mulderc 6y ago
My household has the opposite experience. Partner hates the roku remote and interface and vastly prefers the appleTV.
- kitsunesoba 6y ago
  Same, everything else feels… "stiff" and somewhat clunky compared to an ATV4K, and the next best option Roku has serious privacy issues. I will say though that oddly, the Siri remote got a little worse in its ATV4K revision — most notably, triggering a jump back/forward 30s is much harder on the newer remote. As a result I've paired my old original Dev Kit remote with the ATV4K, which works beautifully.
amznthrwaway 6y ago
We have the opposite experience in our house. We got rid of our Rokus because everybody preferred the AppleTVs.
commoner 6y ago
Some Roku devices now have Apple device mirroring through AirPlay 2: https://support.roku.com/article/360057488733 https://support.roku.com/article/360057488733 Apple TV is also available as a Roku channel: https://channelstore.roku.com/details/a20e3c294993147c6cda435497594031/apple-tv https://channelstore.roku.com/details/a20e3c294993147c6cda43... Roku does not yet have HBO Max, but the two services are currently negotiating a deal to make it happen: https://www.cnet.com/news/hbo-max-exec-on-roku-deal-we-will-get-it-done/ https://www.cnet.com/news/hbo-max-exec-on-roku-deal-we-will-... In the meantime, HBO Max can be streamed to Roku from an Apple device via AirPlay 2: https://variety.com/2020/digital/news/roku-apple-airplay-4k-hbo-max-workaround-1234829003/ https://variety.com/2020/digital/news/roku-apple-airplay-4k-...

hotdeo 6y ago

Of course everyone's experience is different but Apple's software is pretty far from "Just Works". Especially their macos with the recent update to Big Sur as well as multiple OS updates during Catalina. In the 1 year I have owned a 16 inch macbook pro it's bricked on me twice because of their "Just Works" OS updates and had to take it to the Apple store to get it reset. Not to mention the issue of not being apple to open non-apple apps at one point due to a bug on their side. I have had issues with Windows and Linux, but nothing close to bricking my machine. It seems to me Apple's way of doing business is if it's not an Apple product, we have no interest. They really want to lock you in which is fine cause they are a business but that mindset is extremely dangerous in my opinion.

three_seagrass 6y ago
Yeah, I didn't have the "it just works" experience. The last iPhone I owned was an iPhone 3s, and an update nearly bricked it by slowing everything down on the phone. I guess "it just works" as long as you keep upgrading to their latest. That's true with deprecations in every product line, but it's not something I'd pay a premium for, especially when it doesn't exist.
- rangibaby 6y ago
  iOS 4 murdered my iPod touch too. RIP
- dmtroyer 6y ago
  I had a hell of a time with the floppy drive on my IIgs, too.

rangibaby 6y ago

Apple just works until it doesn’t. I have used Apple products for many years but a a perfectly fine 2013 15” MBP dying on me because of bad RAM has made me reconsider. That’s something that should be a cheap and quick replacement

lostlogin 6y ago
I assume it died a while back? A laptop dying after 7 years seems rather better than one could reasonable expect.
- rangibaby 6y ago
  It was in excellent condition other than that, so I don’t think age matters. Do you think it’s reasonable to buy a whole new car because the tires are worn out?

lemming 6y ago

Apple really nails the "it just works". I'm all-in on Apple, and I don't see that changing. And generally, the above has been my experience too. But I recently bought a wireless magic keyboard and trackpad for a standing workstation with a monitor in the corner of our living room. I'd expected to be able to switch between our two laptops seamlessly so that whoever happened to need it could use it, but no - you have to explicitly unpair the keyboard and trackpad from one computer before re-pairing it to the other. That means finding it wherever my wife left it, turning it on or at a minimum logging in and all the rest of the dance, every single time. It drives me insane. I have a shitty $50 brand x bluetooth speaker that does it better than this. I want to listen to some music, I pair with it. My wife wants to listen to some music later? She just pairs to it and she's done. It doesn't seem that hard to get right.

kemayo 6y ago
Could be bad design, or could be good shared-space / privacy-focused design. Letting someone else yoink a connected input device in a hypothetical coffee shop or office with 50 people nearby is a recipe for annoyance or even for privacy-invasion. (Even if it only lets you grab devices you've previously been paired to, that's still an easy thing in an office where a lot of the equipment is more communal.) My recollection is that the magic keyboard / trackpad insta-pair if you connect them via wire. Would plugging them each in to a lightning cable for a second to switch their allegiance work better for you than manually unpairing? Obviously it's still a hassle.
- lemming 6y ago
  My recollection is that the magic keyboard / trackpad insta-pair if you connect them via wire. I didn't know that, thanks - I'll try that. It's still a pain, but less so than having to track my wife's computer down. It does beg the question of why I'm going wireless at all, of course.
danielscrubs 6y ago
New Logitech master mouse I bought does it really well. One button under to switch between three computers. That said... I really hope we can move away from Bluetooth, it’s the least reliable and most errorprone thing on todays computers.

intellix 6y ago

I think Apple are long gone from "it just works" lately

minusf 6y ago

just having 2 apple id's (work vs home) completely breaks most services and devices for me. i wish it "just worked" though.