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> Beats are widely considered to be overpriced for their audio quality. Sound quality is also subjective at a certain level. Not everyone wants flat sound like

> Beats are widely considered to be overpriced for their audio quality. Sound quality is also subjective at a certain level. Not everyone wants flat sound like an audio engineer. I like bassy music and headhphones (which the Beats are known to be). Now, Beats may still be overpriced since they crossed into fashion, but I'm not a fan of this blanket talk about sound quality like it's always objective.

eptcyka 6y ago
Regardless of how the bass response is tuned, higher total harmonic distortion is objectively worse than less total harmonic distortion. Headphones are a tool to enjoy audio experiences, and a good tool should get out of the way of said experiences.
- dagw 6y ago
  Headphones are a tool to enjoy audio experiences Yes, and the truth is that many people seem to enjoy the experience of listening to Beats headphones and enjoy that audio more than the audio from many 'better' headphones.
- compiler-guy 6y ago
  Higher total harmonic distortion is an objectively less accurate reproduction of the original sound. But people can have a preference for less accuracy and that is not objectively “worse” except on one single scale that the consumer may not value. Just like sepia toned prints are objectively worse reproductions of the original picture.
  - stouset 6y ago
    Hell, every photo filter is a less-accurate representation of the original. And filters are wildly popular.
    - eptcyka 6y ago
      Yet, all of Apples devices are equipped with screens that have best in class color accuracy.
    - whatevertrevor 6y ago
      That's a terrible analogy, would you buy a screen that has a fixed perma-filter applied to every input? The whole point of buying headphones that are neutral and accurate in their frequency response is that you can enjoy different pieces the way you want. You can apply any "filter" you want to color an accurate and versatile speaker, but you can't get a pair of beats to clear up the mids or make the bass less boomy.
      - compiler-guy 6y ago
        But if you don't need them to be less boomy or clear up the mids, and that is the filter that you want, then there is no problem.
        whatevertrevor 6y ago
        Hey I wouldn't pay extra for reduced functionality, but you do you.
        compiler-guy 6y ago
        You seem to be confusing my point that people have different preferences with my own preferences. People like the sound they get with these headphones, accurate or not. That isn't a personal failing.
        whatevertrevor 6y ago
        I said nothing about your preferences, that was the generic "you". My point is good headphones are neutral and versatile enough that they can do both, just like a good screen can make all sorts of different pictures look good. It's about versatility and quality in different dimensions, and headphones/speaker that impart too much color to music tend to be very one-dimensional which would limit what you can do with them.
- sosborn 6y ago
  Numbers being objectively worse doesn't mean that the experience as a whole is objectively worse. If that was true no one would buy vinyl and the iPod never would have succeeded. Sound is like food. People like different flavors and that is OK.
- slfnflctd 6y ago
  Reminds me of the 'bass boost' feature on a lot of consumer audio stuff going back to the 90s (or earlier)-- most of the time, it obfuscates & distorts the original mix and sounds muddier as a result, but people adapt to it and it sounds normal to them. There's also the confounding effects of different volume levels producing wildly different mixes, of people's ears/brains responding to frequency ranges differently, and of different music types revealing shortcomings more than others (as anyone who's flinched at pixelated cymbals can attest). All of which make it seem like a more subjective thing because of the complexity of interacting variables. Regardless, true audio fidelity is something that can be measured to a fairly detailed extent. The fact is, most speakers at most volume levels aren't great at it, just 'good enough'. It mostly boils down to: how much can you tell the difference? Just like with finding that optimal mp3 encoding rate to avoid those damn pixelated cymbals.
- UncleMeat 6y ago
  > Regardless of how the bass response is tuned, higher total harmonic distortion is objectively worse than less total harmonic distortion. Headphones are a tool to enjoy audio experiences, and a good tool should get out of the way of said experiences. This is why nobody buys tube amps for their guitars. Everybody just wants flawless clean sound with no breakup. Being "objectively better" on some metric does not mean that the metric matters at all to the target audience.
- ubercow13 6y ago
  Uh no. I sometimes use a DSP to introduce harmonic distortion when listening to music. There is also a good chance the producer of the music has also introduced a great deal of intentional harmonic distortion already.
cat199 6y ago
> Sound quality is also subjective at a certain level. apples != oranges. subjective sound quality (what I like) is always subjective at any level, and objective sound quality (how well it reproduces an input signal) is always objective at any level.
kenjackson 6y ago
Plus some of the latter Beats headphones got neutral/positive reviews, even from audiophiles. For most people who buy Beats, they meet expectations.
SparkyMcUnicorn 6y ago
Marketing works, and people will believe that the audio quality is fantastic on awful products because the bass is boosted. They haven't ever used a good product, so they have nothing to compare it with. Anyone that has tried my headphones that have V shaped sound (flat soundstage gets mixed reactions based on their preference) are blown away by how much better they are than their Beats, and at lower cost. When people listen to my headphones and feel like they need to re-listen to their entire music collection, because they're hearing parts of the song they never heard before, that's how I know it's not all in my head.
kllrnohj 6y ago
> Not everyone wants flat sound like an audio engineer. That's what equalizers are for. The point of your speakers/headphones being as flat as possible isn't because it's the inherently best experience for everyone, it's because it's the most flexible experience. You can take a good set of flat headphone and ram the bass through the roof - it'll still sound great. You can't really do the reverse. You can try to equalize a bass-heavy headphone into something more neutral, but the result is worse overall, and a lot more finicky as a user.
- sharkjacobs 6y ago
  > I, a consumer, want bassy sounding headphones > Then you should buy these neutral sounding headphones, and mess around with software to make them sound bassier
- gambiting 6y ago
  yeah, no, I disagree - I have a pair of Sony's XM2 headphones and even when I set the "bass boost" to +10 they are still not as nice to listen to as my beats studio are. Yeah the beats suck for a lot of other music types, but for some they are still my favourite headphones, and I'd pick them over other brands any day.
  - maigret 6y ago
    Bass is like sugar. Lots of it produces a quick addiction to their consumer, but that doesn't mean they are good. Beats produce loud but muddy basses. Good bass will be more subtle, but at the same time clearer. Try a Sennheiser if you can, especially one over ear with cable. It's too bad right now most of the known brands produce poor quality. My wife was completely amazed when she heard her favourite track through good headphones, she heard new instruments and other things she'd never noticed before. But also be aware that better gear might sound worse when you use it to play bad records, because it will expose the bad quality more clearly.

eptcyka 6y ago

Regardless of how the bass response is tuned, higher total harmonic distortion is objectively worse than less total harmonic distortion. Headphones are a tool to enjoy audio experiences, and a good tool should get out of the way of said experiences.

dagw 6y ago
Headphones are a tool to enjoy audio experiences Yes, and the truth is that many people seem to enjoy the experience of listening to Beats headphones and enjoy that audio more than the audio from many 'better' headphones.
compiler-guy 6y ago
Higher total harmonic distortion is an objectively less accurate reproduction of the original sound. But people can have a preference for less accuracy and that is not objectively “worse” except on one single scale that the consumer may not value. Just like sepia toned prints are objectively worse reproductions of the original picture.
- stouset 6y ago
  Hell, every photo filter is a less-accurate representation of the original. And filters are wildly popular.
  - eptcyka 6y ago
    Yet, all of Apples devices are equipped with screens that have best in class color accuracy.
  - whatevertrevor 6y ago
    That's a terrible analogy, would you buy a screen that has a fixed perma-filter applied to every input? The whole point of buying headphones that are neutral and accurate in their frequency response is that you can enjoy different pieces the way you want. You can apply any "filter" you want to color an accurate and versatile speaker, but you can't get a pair of beats to clear up the mids or make the bass less boomy.
    - compiler-guy 6y ago
      But if you don't need them to be less boomy or clear up the mids, and that is the filter that you want, then there is no problem.
      - whatevertrevor 6y ago
        Hey I wouldn't pay extra for reduced functionality, but you do you.
        compiler-guy 6y ago
        You seem to be confusing my point that people have different preferences with my own preferences. People like the sound they get with these headphones, accurate or not. That isn't a personal failing.
        whatevertrevor 6y ago
        I said nothing about your preferences, that was the generic "you". My point is good headphones are neutral and versatile enough that they can do both, just like a good screen can make all sorts of different pictures look good. It's about versatility and quality in different dimensions, and headphones/speaker that impart too much color to music tend to be very one-dimensional which would limit what you can do with them.
sosborn 6y ago
Numbers being objectively worse doesn't mean that the experience as a whole is objectively worse. If that was true no one would buy vinyl and the iPod never would have succeeded. Sound is like food. People like different flavors and that is OK.
slfnflctd 6y ago
Reminds me of the 'bass boost' feature on a lot of consumer audio stuff going back to the 90s (or earlier)-- most of the time, it obfuscates & distorts the original mix and sounds muddier as a result, but people adapt to it and it sounds normal to them. There's also the confounding effects of different volume levels producing wildly different mixes, of people's ears/brains responding to frequency ranges differently, and of different music types revealing shortcomings more than others (as anyone who's flinched at pixelated cymbals can attest). All of which make it seem like a more subjective thing because of the complexity of interacting variables. Regardless, true audio fidelity is something that can be measured to a fairly detailed extent. The fact is, most speakers at most volume levels aren't great at it, just 'good enough'. It mostly boils down to: how much can you tell the difference? Just like with finding that optimal mp3 encoding rate to avoid those damn pixelated cymbals.
UncleMeat 6y ago
> Regardless of how the bass response is tuned, higher total harmonic distortion is objectively worse than less total harmonic distortion. Headphones are a tool to enjoy audio experiences, and a good tool should get out of the way of said experiences. This is why nobody buys tube amps for their guitars. Everybody just wants flawless clean sound with no breakup. Being "objectively better" on some metric does not mean that the metric matters at all to the target audience.
ubercow13 6y ago
Uh no. I sometimes use a DSP to introduce harmonic distortion when listening to music. There is also a good chance the producer of the music has also introduced a great deal of intentional harmonic distortion already.

cat199 6y ago

> Sound quality is also subjective at a certain level. apples != oranges. subjective sound quality (what I like) is always subjective at any level, and objective sound quality (how well it reproduces an input signal) is always objective at any level.

kenjackson 6y ago

Plus some of the latter Beats headphones got neutral/positive reviews, even from audiophiles. For most people who buy Beats, they meet expectations.

SparkyMcUnicorn 6y ago

Marketing works, and people will believe that the audio quality is fantastic on awful products because the bass is boosted. They haven't ever used a good product, so they have nothing to compare it with. Anyone that has tried my headphones that have V shaped sound (flat soundstage gets mixed reactions based on their preference) are blown away by how much better they are than their Beats, and at lower cost. When people listen to my headphones and feel like they need to re-listen to their entire music collection, because they're hearing parts of the song they never heard before, that's how I know it's not all in my head.

kllrnohj 6y ago

> Not everyone wants flat sound like an audio engineer. That's what equalizers are for. The point of your speakers/headphones being as flat as possible isn't because it's the inherently best experience for everyone, it's because it's the most flexible experience. You can take a good set of flat headphone and ram the bass through the roof - it'll still sound great. You can't really do the reverse. You can try to equalize a bass-heavy headphone into something more neutral, but the result is worse overall, and a lot more finicky as a user.

sharkjacobs 6y ago
> I, a consumer, want bassy sounding headphones > Then you should buy these neutral sounding headphones, and mess around with software to make them sound bassier
gambiting 6y ago
yeah, no, I disagree - I have a pair of Sony's XM2 headphones and even when I set the "bass boost" to +10 they are still not as nice to listen to as my beats studio are. Yeah the beats suck for a lot of other music types, but for some they are still my favourite headphones, and I'd pick them over other brands any day.
- maigret 6y ago
  Bass is like sugar. Lots of it produces a quick addiction to their consumer, but that doesn't mean they are good. Beats produce loud but muddy basses. Good bass will be more subtle, but at the same time clearer. Try a Sennheiser if you can, especially one over ear with cable. It's too bad right now most of the known brands produce poor quality. My wife was completely amazed when she heard her favourite track through good headphones, she heard new instruments and other things she'd never noticed before. But also be aware that better gear might sound worse when you use it to play bad records, because it will expose the bad quality more clearly.