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> Apple is my hero in that regard How does apple becomes your hero when they are selling the same thing ? > deeply troubling subculture where passionately deb

> Apple is my hero in that regard How does apple becomes your hero when they are selling the same thing ? > deeply troubling subculture where passionately debating about very expensive cables and gadgets without ever being able to pass a blind test on the claims is the norm, almost like cargo cult That sounds like the apple cult. > quickly pushing you on the money-spend-for-audio-performance scale where you are simply supposed to check you bank account We are talking about $549 earphones from apple here.

fortran77 6y ago
> How does apple becomes your hero when they are selling the same thing ? Because he values image over substance, and his personal identity is tied to Apple. One thing about my Grado, Audeze, etc. I can repair them. I've had the same pairs for years, used day in and out, and when I wear them out I can buy new parts and easily fix them. I don't need to go to a "Genius" or have to spudge them apart and not have them ever fit right again.
- bun_at_work 6y ago
  You're assuming a lot about the person you're talking about. Some people will probably buy these for the image, some because they work well with Apple products, some because ??. But you don't know what he values or who he is personally. Why be so toxic?
  - fortran77 6y ago
    Apple is his “hero.” As if they cured cancer.
- billo-ollib 6y ago
  Oh c'mon. Apple products tend to be long lasting, are incredibly easy to use, don't malfunction, have a good design aesthetic and are a good addition to an already existing suite of Apple products. Suggesting that he values image over substance seems unnecessary.
  - Ancapistani 6y ago
    > don't malfunction I love my AirPod Pros, but the right bud is “crackling” again. It’s the third one I’ve had, and seems to be a design issue. So far, they’ve replaced them.
    - diebeforei485 6y ago
      If you've needed multiple replacements, might they give you a refund? Some states have "lemon laws" about this.
      - mh- 6y ago
        As someone with the same issue (including multiple replacements).. I don't want a refund. I just want working ones. I really wish they'd fix whatever manufacturing defect is causing this.
        diebeforei485 6y ago
        It's frustrating. My airpods pro had an issue where they'd make a crackling sound with every step I take (but were fine when sitting). Apple replaced them in warranty and it's been fine since, but they now have a replacement program for these out of warranty as well. I hope they're doing diagnostics on defective airpods they receive from customers.
        mh- 6y ago
        yeah, same experience. they start crackling a bit when I talk loudly. then crackling when I talk at all. then eventually crackling whenever I move.
    - billo-ollib 6y ago
      Glad to know they've replaced them. What I meant was the rate at which they malfunction seems to be lower than Sony/Senheiser counterparts. Admittedly this is purely anecdotal with the sample size being about 20 people. With the exception of an ipod touch I have never bought an Apple product, however I definitely appreciate them. I was simply trying to push back on the "image over substance" comment.
- matwood 6y ago
  > Because he values image over substance, and his personal identity is tied to Apple. This is a great example from yesterdays conversation where anti-apple people are more passionate with their hate than apple fans with their love. If I had $500 laying around and I wanted a pair of over ear headphones these would be on my shortlist. Not because of image, but without trying them I can say they probably sound great, and will pair/move between my Apple devices with ease. The w1 chip is a game changer if you have multiple apple devices.
  - fortran77 6y ago
    But is Apple your hero?
    - matwood 6y ago
      No. And all those headphones are not my villains. They are just different products making different trade offs.
- IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
  Endlessly fucking around with your equipment, priding yourself on replacing a $20 extended warranty with a $40 soldering iron, two hours of your time, and three deep breaths of mercury is just as much an "identity" as enjoying Apple products. And considering the total numbers doing either of these two things, I believe the tinkerers have far more need to tell everyone about it than the "fanboys".
  - gimmeThaBeet 6y ago
    Wait, are you talking about de-soldering with mercury? That sounds...uncommon and ill-advised. I've seen a brand mercury that makes electronics products(?), but doesn't seem to quite fit the context. I mean, a soldering iron isn't exactly disposable. I can see how the audiophile crowd could grind gears. But while fiddling around with something can certainly be more trouble than it's worth, basically repair shaming seems like a bizarre take. At that point it's as much an electronics hobby. In the bad old days of computers, there were certainly more problems you had to solve with an iron. Hell, if you've had a busted cap on a gpu or mobo past warranty, there's still problems that do. I don't know, I just find it difficult, that on this kind of software-dev focused forum, that I can discourage the hacker spirit anywhere it grows.
mrtksn 6y ago
>How does apple becomes your hero when they are selling the same thing ? They sell the product experience. Easily connects, looks nice and sounds nice. Every now and then they would throw some audiphileish numbers in the product description(like it updates 3 gazillion times per second) but it's never the central argument. Apple products are always about the experience and they wouldn't hesitate to put higher end specs when matter and lower end specs when it doesn't and make nerds uncomfortable or even angry because it would miss-match their convention of GB per USD or Herz per Euro. This is the way it always was, most famously with iPhone where Apple doesn't disclose RAM or CPU frequency or battery capacity and all-knowing reviewers will angrily tell you that Apple sells 1000$ phone with 4GB of RAM and how ridiculous is this compared to, say Samsung where you get 12GB RAM for the same price.
- codegladiator 6y ago
  > They sell the product /experience/ But that's what you said the "audio gear industry" were doing > I find it fascinating how the audio gear industry has thought the consumers on how much money you are supposed to spend to have audio /experience/ That's how you began your argument. > Apple sells 1000$ phone with 4GB of RAM and how ridiculous is this compared to, say Samsung where you get 12GB RAM for the same price. This is also the same line of reasoning for "audiophile products" vs (how ridiculous is this compared to) "average headphones".
  - mrtksn 6y ago
    By experience, I mean the experience you get from using the product, I don't mean the money spending experience. Audiophile industry definitely provides you the spending experience but that's not what I expect from products.
    - codegladiator 6y ago
      You must be more than average rich if buying apple products does not give you a "money spending experience". Product experience is, debatable, having used at least one product, I can "imagine" how they can improve it. While at the same time, having duped by the audiophile industry as well, the product was also great (i got those shure headphones). What I am saying is sure there is no denying of experience wise of both spending/product, there is definitely a gap in the cost and worth of the product.
robenkleene 6y ago
> deeply troubling subculture where passionately debating about very expensive cables and gadgets without ever being able to pass a blind test on the claims is the norm, almost like cargo cult > That sounds like the apple cult. I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but this statement on its face is absurd. The equivalent comparison to "without ever being able to pass a blind test" would be running macOS on a computer where you've hidden the Apple logo, and seeing if people can tell whether it's Windows. You may have valid problems with Apple's users, but you haven't provided any evidence that it has anything in common with audiophile culture, and the comparison makes no sense on its face as described by the parent comment.
- codegladiator 6y ago
  "pass a blind test" wasn't my choice of words, I would rather put it like something similar to "no one was fired for buying from ibm" on a personal level. > You may have valid problems with Apple's users I don't have a problem with apple users. I use apple products too. I also understand the rush of spending. I just don't understand how users see apple as a Hero/God company (blind trust). For evidence see parent comment.
  - robenkleene 6y ago
    Got it, yeah having a problem with Apple users who "see apple as a Hero/God company (blind trust)" is fair and valid. (Your initial comment "that sounds like the apple cult" is after quoting a different portion of the parent comment that's talking about a different aspect of audiophile culture that doesn't have any obvious similarities to Apple users, hence the confusion.)

fortran77 6y ago

> How does apple becomes your hero when they are selling the same thing ? Because he values image over substance, and his personal identity is tied to Apple. One thing about my Grado, Audeze, etc. I can repair them. I've had the same pairs for years, used day in and out, and when I wear them out I can buy new parts and easily fix them. I don't need to go to a "Genius" or have to spudge them apart and not have them ever fit right again.

bun_at_work 6y ago
You're assuming a lot about the person you're talking about. Some people will probably buy these for the image, some because they work well with Apple products, some because ??. But you don't know what he values or who he is personally. Why be so toxic?
- fortran77 6y ago
  Apple is his “hero.” As if they cured cancer.
billo-ollib 6y ago
Oh c'mon. Apple products tend to be long lasting, are incredibly easy to use, don't malfunction, have a good design aesthetic and are a good addition to an already existing suite of Apple products. Suggesting that he values image over substance seems unnecessary.
- Ancapistani 6y ago
  > don't malfunction I love my AirPod Pros, but the right bud is “crackling” again. It’s the third one I’ve had, and seems to be a design issue. So far, they’ve replaced them.
  - diebeforei485 6y ago
    If you've needed multiple replacements, might they give you a refund? Some states have "lemon laws" about this.
    - mh- 6y ago
      As someone with the same issue (including multiple replacements).. I don't want a refund. I just want working ones. I really wish they'd fix whatever manufacturing defect is causing this.
      - diebeforei485 6y ago
        It's frustrating. My airpods pro had an issue where they'd make a crackling sound with every step I take (but were fine when sitting). Apple replaced them in warranty and it's been fine since, but they now have a replacement program for these out of warranty as well. I hope they're doing diagnostics on defective airpods they receive from customers.
        mh- 6y ago
        yeah, same experience. they start crackling a bit when I talk loudly. then crackling when I talk at all. then eventually crackling whenever I move.
  - billo-ollib 6y ago
    Glad to know they've replaced them. What I meant was the rate at which they malfunction seems to be lower than Sony/Senheiser counterparts. Admittedly this is purely anecdotal with the sample size being about 20 people. With the exception of an ipod touch I have never bought an Apple product, however I definitely appreciate them. I was simply trying to push back on the "image over substance" comment.
matwood 6y ago
> Because he values image over substance, and his personal identity is tied to Apple. This is a great example from yesterdays conversation where anti-apple people are more passionate with their hate than apple fans with their love. If I had $500 laying around and I wanted a pair of over ear headphones these would be on my shortlist. Not because of image, but without trying them I can say they probably sound great, and will pair/move between my Apple devices with ease. The w1 chip is a game changer if you have multiple apple devices.
- fortran77 6y ago
  But is Apple your hero?
  - matwood 6y ago
    No. And all those headphones are not my villains. They are just different products making different trade offs.
IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
Endlessly fucking around with your equipment, priding yourself on replacing a $20 extended warranty with a $40 soldering iron, two hours of your time, and three deep breaths of mercury is just as much an "identity" as enjoying Apple products. And considering the total numbers doing either of these two things, I believe the tinkerers have far more need to tell everyone about it than the "fanboys".
- gimmeThaBeet 6y ago
  Wait, are you talking about de-soldering with mercury? That sounds...uncommon and ill-advised. I've seen a brand mercury that makes electronics products(?), but doesn't seem to quite fit the context. I mean, a soldering iron isn't exactly disposable. I can see how the audiophile crowd could grind gears. But while fiddling around with something can certainly be more trouble than it's worth, basically repair shaming seems like a bizarre take. At that point it's as much an electronics hobby. In the bad old days of computers, there were certainly more problems you had to solve with an iron. Hell, if you've had a busted cap on a gpu or mobo past warranty, there's still problems that do. I don't know, I just find it difficult, that on this kind of software-dev focused forum, that I can discourage the hacker spirit anywhere it grows.

mrtksn 6y ago

>How does apple becomes your hero when they are selling the same thing ? They sell the product experience. Easily connects, looks nice and sounds nice. Every now and then they would throw some audiphileish numbers in the product description(like it updates 3 gazillion times per second) but it's never the central argument. Apple products are always about the experience and they wouldn't hesitate to put higher end specs when matter and lower end specs when it doesn't and make nerds uncomfortable or even angry because it would miss-match their convention of GB per USD or Herz per Euro. This is the way it always was, most famously with iPhone where Apple doesn't disclose RAM or CPU frequency or battery capacity and all-knowing reviewers will angrily tell you that Apple sells 1000$ phone with 4GB of RAM and how ridiculous is this compared to, say Samsung where you get 12GB RAM for the same price.

codegladiator 6y ago
> They sell the product /experience/ But that's what you said the "audio gear industry" were doing > I find it fascinating how the audio gear industry has thought the consumers on how much money you are supposed to spend to have audio /experience/ That's how you began your argument. > Apple sells 1000$ phone with 4GB of RAM and how ridiculous is this compared to, say Samsung where you get 12GB RAM for the same price. This is also the same line of reasoning for "audiophile products" vs (how ridiculous is this compared to) "average headphones".
- mrtksn 6y ago
  By experience, I mean the experience you get from using the product, I don't mean the money spending experience. Audiophile industry definitely provides you the spending experience but that's not what I expect from products.
  - codegladiator 6y ago
    You must be more than average rich if buying apple products does not give you a "money spending experience". Product experience is, debatable, having used at least one product, I can "imagine" how they can improve it. While at the same time, having duped by the audiophile industry as well, the product was also great (i got those shure headphones). What I am saying is sure there is no denying of experience wise of both spending/product, there is definitely a gap in the cost and worth of the product.

robenkleene 6y ago

> deeply troubling subculture where passionately debating about very expensive cables and gadgets without ever being able to pass a blind test on the claims is the norm, almost like cargo cult > That sounds like the apple cult. I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but this statement on its face is absurd. The equivalent comparison to "without ever being able to pass a blind test" would be running macOS on a computer where you've hidden the Apple logo, and seeing if people can tell whether it's Windows. You may have valid problems with Apple's users, but you haven't provided any evidence that it has anything in common with audiophile culture, and the comparison makes no sense on its face as described by the parent comment.

codegladiator 6y ago
"pass a blind test" wasn't my choice of words, I would rather put it like something similar to "no one was fired for buying from ibm" on a personal level. > You may have valid problems with Apple's users I don't have a problem with apple users. I use apple products too. I also understand the rush of spending. I just don't understand how users see apple as a Hero/God company (blind trust). For evidence see parent comment.
- robenkleene 6y ago
  Got it, yeah having a problem with Apple users who "see apple as a Hero/God company (blind trust)" is fair and valid. (Your initial comment "that sounds like the apple cult" is after quoting a different portion of the parent comment that's talking about a different aspect of audiophile culture that doesn't have any obvious similarities to Apple users, hence the confusion.)