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Roll this event back 25 years and people would be claiming that he was radicalized by Satanic heavy metal played backwards. Or jazz and marijuana. Or that Pro

Roll this event back 25 years and people would be claiming that he was radicalized by Satanic heavy metal played backwards. Or jazz and marijuana. Or that Protestant heresy.

082349872349872 6y ago
Roll back three or four centuries, and one can find claims about radical Quakers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23859546 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23859546 "In its first few pages, the book accuses the Quakers of obscenity, adultery, civil commotion, conspiracy, blasphemy, subversion and lunacy. Milton was not out of fashion in applying bad manners to propaganda. It is merely regrettable that he did not transcend the frailties of his time."
user-the-name 6y ago
Those things did not exist. Far-right extremism on Youtube actually exists.
- moojd 6y ago
  I assure you jazz does indeed exist.
  - user-the-name 6y ago
    Jazz that radicalises you to mass murder does very much not exist.
    - rimiform 6y ago
      Music has never radicalised anyone, nor video games. There's only a type of music (games) people listen to (play) who then go on to do radical things.
      - user-the-name 6y ago
        What?
        rimiform 6y ago
        Sorry, I mixed up comment chains. Someone referred to how black metal bands in Norway burned churches and people routinely claim violent video games cause violence, but I'm saying the causality goes the other way. Church-burning Norwegians 'cause' black metal, rather than the other way around.
watwut 6y ago
To be fair, this happened, note the "Church arsons and attempts" chapter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Norwegian_black_metal_scene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Norwegian_black_metal_sc... In 1992, members of the Norwegian black metal scene began a wave of arson attacks on Christian churches. By 1996, there had been at least 50 attacks in Norway;[2][27] in every case that was solved, those responsible were black metal fans.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  Kind of. Everyone involved with the attacks seemed to be directly connected to the local black metal scene at the time, but it's not like the music itself inspired people worldwide to burn churches.
  - throw_m239339 6y ago
    > it's not like the music itself inspired people worldwide to burn churches. unfortunately... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/03/us/louisiana-black-church-fires.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/03/us/louisiana-black-church...
    - boomboomsubban 6y ago
      >Mr. Matthews has also said that he was copying similar crimes committed in Norway in the 1990s in an effort to elevate his status among the black metal community, His entire reason was to ingratiate himself with the scene, the music still had little relevance.
- pjc50 6y ago
  .. who were also of the far-right. Which is the real linking factor here.
  - watwut 6y ago
    Music can be and in practice is vector for far-right propaganda too. Or I guess far-left, except I knew about neonazi bands when I was younger and did not knew about communist bands. By neonazi bands I mean bands whose lyrics propagate those ides. Distinction without difference in this case, basically. It was not metal, it was rock in that case. But here, those metal bands were also expressing their ideas and opinions in their songs. There was such a thing as disproportional moral panic around metal in USA. And there was also such a thing as metal bands actually being like that. It is like ... there was satanic moral panic where a lot of innocent people ended up suffering. And then there was real world child abuse going on too.
wesleywt 6y ago
If you listened to metal you didn't go out and shoot Muslims. On YouTube you have people deliberately manipulating facts to convince people to follow their extremist views. You are comparing apples to oranges. You should compare the history of propaganda media such as radio (Nazi's and Rwanda), TV and the internet.
badconvincer 6y ago
No comparison for a variety of reasons least of which being that a lot of this propaganda reaches a lot of the older folks as well.

Roll this event back 25 years and people would be claiming that he was radicalized by Satanic heavy metal played backwards. Or jazz and marijuana. Or that Protestant heresy.

082349872349872 6y ago

Roll back three or four centuries, and one can find claims about radical Quakers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23859546 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23859546 "In its first few pages, the book accuses the Quakers of obscenity, adultery, civil commotion, conspiracy, blasphemy, subversion and lunacy. Milton was not out of fashion in applying bad manners to propaganda. It is merely regrettable that he did not transcend the frailties of his time."

user-the-name 6y ago

Those things did not exist. Far-right extremism on Youtube actually exists.

moojd 6y ago
I assure you jazz does indeed exist.
- user-the-name 6y ago
  Jazz that radicalises you to mass murder does very much not exist.
  - rimiform 6y ago
    Music has never radicalised anyone, nor video games. There's only a type of music (games) people listen to (play) who then go on to do radical things.
    - user-the-name 6y ago
      What?
      - rimiform 6y ago
        Sorry, I mixed up comment chains. Someone referred to how black metal bands in Norway burned churches and people routinely claim violent video games cause violence, but I'm saying the causality goes the other way. Church-burning Norwegians 'cause' black metal, rather than the other way around.

watwut 6y ago

To be fair, this happened, note the "Church arsons and attempts" chapter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Norwegian_black_metal_scene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Norwegian_black_metal_sc... In 1992, members of the Norwegian black metal scene began a wave of arson attacks on Christian churches. By 1996, there had been at least 50 attacks in Norway;[2][27] in every case that was solved, those responsible were black metal fans.

boomboomsubban 6y ago
Kind of. Everyone involved with the attacks seemed to be directly connected to the local black metal scene at the time, but it's not like the music itself inspired people worldwide to burn churches.
- throw_m239339 6y ago
  > it's not like the music itself inspired people worldwide to burn churches. unfortunately... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/03/us/louisiana-black-church-fires.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/03/us/louisiana-black-church...
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    >Mr. Matthews has also said that he was copying similar crimes committed in Norway in the 1990s in an effort to elevate his status among the black metal community, His entire reason was to ingratiate himself with the scene, the music still had little relevance.
pjc50 6y ago
.. who were also of the far-right. Which is the real linking factor here.
- watwut 6y ago
  Music can be and in practice is vector for far-right propaganda too. Or I guess far-left, except I knew about neonazi bands when I was younger and did not knew about communist bands. By neonazi bands I mean bands whose lyrics propagate those ides. Distinction without difference in this case, basically. It was not metal, it was rock in that case. But here, those metal bands were also expressing their ideas and opinions in their songs. There was such a thing as disproportional moral panic around metal in USA. And there was also such a thing as metal bands actually being like that. It is like ... there was satanic moral panic where a lot of innocent people ended up suffering. And then there was real world child abuse going on too.

wesleywt 6y ago

If you listened to metal you didn't go out and shoot Muslims. On YouTube you have people deliberately manipulating facts to convince people to follow their extremist views. You are comparing apples to oranges. You should compare the history of propaganda media such as radio (Nazi's and Rwanda), TV and the internet.

badconvincer 6y ago

No comparison for a variety of reasons least of which being that a lot of this propaganda reaches a lot of the older folks as well.