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In my day it would have been heavy metal and dungeons and dragons. If that seems glib about a terrorist outrage that cost dozens of lives and families, we shoul

In my day it would have been heavy metal and dungeons and dragons. If that seems glib about a terrorist outrage that cost dozens of lives and families, we should apply the same standard of gravity to the quality of the critical excuses authorities make for it afterward. There is a youtube rabbit hole, but it has nothing on the previous tumblr hall of mirrors, or the twitter chorus. Tech is a great scapegoat because it's not going to defend itself. I suppose part of moving on is finding a way to co-opt negative experiences and apply them to strengthen your agenda, but from politicians, it still seems like cynical cant.

devenblake 6y ago
I don't remember the "Tumblr hall of mirrors" or the "Twitter chorus" leading to mass shootings.
- AdrianB1 6y ago
  There is no report yet to tell that. I think YouTube is just a scape goat for the society problems that led to that terrible event; any day someone can come forward with a theory that the bad things on the planet are caused by X, Y or Z where X, Y or Z can be anything from Youtube/Twitter/FB to video games or drinking beer, then the reaction will be to try to ban that. I saw the ban that was the result of this event, it was illogic to anyone with knowledge of the matter, but it was well accepted by uninformed public.
mantas 6y ago
As a society, we learned a lot of creepy lessons from Orwell's 1984. But we didn't learn the positive lesson - a society needs a controlled way for rebelling for the sake of rebelling. Heavy metal, punks, hippies.. What's up today? Now it gets harder and harder to rebel as more and more things are becoming "normal". So people go more extreme. Soon biggest rebellion will be to do nothing "rebellious". Go to school, don't party too much, stick to classic conservative ideas, maybe go to church (or equivalent), dress in a shirt and jeans, go for family/kids/house with a white fence.
user-the-name 6y ago
Heavy metal and Dungeons and Dragons did not actively push far-right extremist content at people. There is absolutely no comparison to be made there.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  There's no comparison because it's now near-universally recognized that the moral panic on those topics was silly. But many people in the 80s were pretty convinced that heavy metal and fantasy role playing could drive you insane or make you start worshipping demons. It was the subject of Tom Hanks's first movie! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazes_and_Monsters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazes_and_Monsters)
  - user-the-name 6y ago
    Yes, but that was not true. Youtube really does have far-right extremist content on it. It really does drive you towards it. This is something happening in reality.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      It was true in part! Judas Priest has a quite emphatic, criminal-friendly message on the topic of Breaking the Law. The question - in both cases - is whether the very real unsavory messages actually cause people to do terrible things they would have otherwise avoided.
- poorpoorstudent 6y ago
  Dungeons and Dragons advocates for: * Innate race-specific characteristics [1] steeped in centuries of colonialism * An antiquated notion of intelligence (INT) that neglects other types of intelligence (emotional, linguistic, spatial, etc.) * A strong focus on collecting currency (gold, silver, platinum) and hoarding items that exacerbate wealth inequality * The illusion of a meritocracy where higher level characters have "earned" their rank and enjoy the benefits of easier gameplay * A problematic reference to Adolf Hitler's charisma [2] that was claimed to be misquoted but was still stricken from further editions of the manual The list goes on, but it should be easy to see how D&D can be a gateway to further radicalization and dehumanization. [1] https://www.polygon.com/2020/6/23/21300653/dungeons-dragons-racial-stereotypes-wizards-of-the-coast-drow-orcs-curse-of-strahd https://www.polygon.com/2020/6/23/21300653/dungeons-dragons-... [2] http://www.theescapist.com/basic_gaming_faq.htm#hitler http://www.theescapist.com/basic_gaming_faq.htm#hitler
mariodiana 6y ago
Came here to say that. Thank goodness for YouTube! There are no records to spin backwards anymore to get the latest marching orders from Satan.

devenblake 6y ago

I don't remember the "Tumblr hall of mirrors" or the "Twitter chorus" leading to mass shootings.

AdrianB1 6y ago
There is no report yet to tell that. I think YouTube is just a scape goat for the society problems that led to that terrible event; any day someone can come forward with a theory that the bad things on the planet are caused by X, Y or Z where X, Y or Z can be anything from Youtube/Twitter/FB to video games or drinking beer, then the reaction will be to try to ban that. I saw the ban that was the result of this event, it was illogic to anyone with knowledge of the matter, but it was well accepted by uninformed public.

mantas 6y ago

As a society, we learned a lot of creepy lessons from Orwell's 1984. But we didn't learn the positive lesson - a society needs a controlled way for rebelling for the sake of rebelling. Heavy metal, punks, hippies.. What's up today? Now it gets harder and harder to rebel as more and more things are becoming "normal". So people go more extreme. Soon biggest rebellion will be to do nothing "rebellious". Go to school, don't party too much, stick to classic conservative ideas, maybe go to church (or equivalent), dress in a shirt and jeans, go for family/kids/house with a white fence.

user-the-name 6y ago

Heavy metal and Dungeons and Dragons did not actively push far-right extremist content at people. There is absolutely no comparison to be made there.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
There's no comparison because it's now near-universally recognized that the moral panic on those topics was silly. But many people in the 80s were pretty convinced that heavy metal and fantasy role playing could drive you insane or make you start worshipping demons. It was the subject of Tom Hanks's first movie! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazes_and_Monsters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazes_and_Monsters)
- user-the-name 6y ago
  Yes, but that was not true. Youtube really does have far-right extremist content on it. It really does drive you towards it. This is something happening in reality.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    It was true in part! Judas Priest has a quite emphatic, criminal-friendly message on the topic of Breaking the Law. The question - in both cases - is whether the very real unsavory messages actually cause people to do terrible things they would have otherwise avoided.
poorpoorstudent 6y ago
Dungeons and Dragons advocates for: * Innate race-specific characteristics [1] steeped in centuries of colonialism * An antiquated notion of intelligence (INT) that neglects other types of intelligence (emotional, linguistic, spatial, etc.) * A strong focus on collecting currency (gold, silver, platinum) and hoarding items that exacerbate wealth inequality * The illusion of a meritocracy where higher level characters have "earned" their rank and enjoy the benefits of easier gameplay * A problematic reference to Adolf Hitler's charisma [2] that was claimed to be misquoted but was still stricken from further editions of the manual The list goes on, but it should be easy to see how D&D can be a gateway to further radicalization and dehumanization. [1] https://www.polygon.com/2020/6/23/21300653/dungeons-dragons-racial-stereotypes-wizards-of-the-coast-drow-orcs-curse-of-strahd https://www.polygon.com/2020/6/23/21300653/dungeons-dragons-... [2] http://www.theescapist.com/basic_gaming_faq.htm#hitler http://www.theescapist.com/basic_gaming_faq.htm#hitler

mariodiana 6y ago

Came here to say that. Thank goodness for YouTube! There are no records to spin backwards anymore to get the latest marching orders from Satan.