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I think we're lying to ourselves when we look for answers that don't acknowledge systematic failure modes in socialization of today's youth. The baddies du jou

I think we're lying to ourselves when we look for answers that don't acknowledge systematic failure modes in socialization of today's youth. The baddies du jour isn't the root cause, just a link in a long causal chain. It's a cop out to say focusing on the baddies du jour is part of a multi-pronged approach, the other prongs aren't there or consist of perfunctory hamfisted interventions. But it's not really a surprise, our current approach to mental health is one of sweeping problems under the rug and hoping the rug doesn't notice. It's treated as a heartwarming story when someone is talked down from the side of a bridge, because comparatively nobody notices that they spend the rest of their life at a just-below-jumping threshold level of misery.

ryanmarsh 6y ago
Events like this are a gold mine for opportunistic policy makers and think tanks. The initial read on Ted Kazinsky was flat wrong. He was practically manufactured. I’d like to know more about the origins of Brenton Tarrant. Both took the time to write lengthy manifestos which, if you read, were more than what you’d get from a YouTube binge. Ted, was, somewhat of an original thinker. Tarrant less so. Fascinating.
- thrower123 6y ago
  It's a little bizarre that Kaczynski was a published mathematician of some note before he fell afoul of MK Ultra https://medium.com/cantors-paradise/the-mathematics-of-ted-kaczynski-43eb6ca16633 https://medium.com/cantors-paradise/the-mathematics-of-ted-k...
- wil421 6y ago
  You see the problem here is that crazy has many forms. Like Ted Kazinsky crazy can be smart and intellectual. The writings seem to make sense, especially for a young mind, and people develop an empathy for the cause. People read his manifesto and others like Mein Kumph and sometimes people, especially growing minds, seem to think it makes sense. YouTube and other videos are much worse because you have full scale productions instead of books and letters. Do you remember the ISIS state videos? Where everything looked peaceful and welcoming? Then when people go there it was hell on earth, some raped, some killed, some even worse. There’s a line we haven’t figured out between free speech and hate speech. Ted’s manifesto is more like free speech but the ISIS stuff and Nazi stuff is pure hate.
  - codetrotter 6y ago
    > Mein Kumph
watwut 6y ago
> But it's not really a surprise, our current approach to mental health is one of sweeping problems under the rug and hoping the rug doesn't notice. But I would say that people with mental health problems will always exist too. And we absolutely should also focus on those who intentionally push them toward extremism and then toward violent action. Because trying to pretend that issue is just mental health or just socialization is not accurate either.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
pjc50 6y ago
> current approach to mental health This is a red herring; nowhere in the section of the report on him does it describe him as being mentally ill, and it was not a sentencing factor at his trial (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53919624 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53919624) https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/122581954/no-remorse-and-narcissistic-the-psychology-of-the-christchurch-mosque-shooter https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/12258... : ". He said after being assessed by the psychologist and psychiatrist, there was no evidence the terrorist suffered from any mental disorders or psychiatric conditions, or that he showed any clinically significant cognitive impairment. The psychologist determined he displayed a range of traits akin to a personality dysfunction, but not to such an extent as to constitute a personality disorder" > systematic failure modes in socialization of today's youth This is rather complicated, because we're talking about radicalisation; he was "socialized" (or at least brought to those views) by the wrong adults, which he chose himself.
- meheleventyone 6y ago
  He's also an adult himself and I believe was an adult when he was radicalized so that bit on "socialization" makes even less sense.
cvhashim 6y ago
It’s a bit jarring when the excuses pour out of the woodwork for white lone wolf shooters and terrorists. I don’t disagree with what you say about systemic failures in the health system, but on the other hand, it ignores the crisis of white, young men getting radicalized at alarming rates.
badconvincer 6y ago
Why would it be mental health? It’s a idealistic terrorist plain and simple. The very fact that you would suggest mental health issues is deeply disturbing.

ryanmarsh 6y ago

Events like this are a gold mine for opportunistic policy makers and think tanks. The initial read on Ted Kazinsky was flat wrong. He was practically manufactured. I’d like to know more about the origins of Brenton Tarrant. Both took the time to write lengthy manifestos which, if you read, were more than what you’d get from a YouTube binge. Ted, was, somewhat of an original thinker. Tarrant less so. Fascinating.

thrower123 6y ago
It's a little bizarre that Kaczynski was a published mathematician of some note before he fell afoul of MK Ultra https://medium.com/cantors-paradise/the-mathematics-of-ted-kaczynski-43eb6ca16633 https://medium.com/cantors-paradise/the-mathematics-of-ted-k...
wil421 6y ago
You see the problem here is that crazy has many forms. Like Ted Kazinsky crazy can be smart and intellectual. The writings seem to make sense, especially for a young mind, and people develop an empathy for the cause. People read his manifesto and others like Mein Kumph and sometimes people, especially growing minds, seem to think it makes sense. YouTube and other videos are much worse because you have full scale productions instead of books and letters. Do you remember the ISIS state videos? Where everything looked peaceful and welcoming? Then when people go there it was hell on earth, some raped, some killed, some even worse. There’s a line we haven’t figured out between free speech and hate speech. Ted’s manifesto is more like free speech but the ISIS stuff and Nazi stuff is pure hate.
- codetrotter 6y ago
  > Mein Kumph

watwut 6y ago

> But it's not really a surprise, our current approach to mental health is one of sweeping problems under the rug and hoping the rug doesn't notice. But I would say that people with mental health problems will always exist too. And we absolutely should also focus on those who intentionally push them toward extremism and then toward violent action. Because trying to pretend that issue is just mental health or just socialization is not accurate either.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

pjc50 6y ago

> current approach to mental health This is a red herring; nowhere in the section of the report on him does it describe him as being mentally ill, and it was not a sentencing factor at his trial (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53919624 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53919624) https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/122581954/no-remorse-and-narcissistic-the-psychology-of-the-christchurch-mosque-shooter https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/12258... : ". He said after being assessed by the psychologist and psychiatrist, there was no evidence the terrorist suffered from any mental disorders or psychiatric conditions, or that he showed any clinically significant cognitive impairment. The psychologist determined he displayed a range of traits akin to a personality dysfunction, but not to such an extent as to constitute a personality disorder" > systematic failure modes in socialization of today's youth This is rather complicated, because we're talking about radicalisation; he was "socialized" (or at least brought to those views) by the wrong adults, which he chose himself.

meheleventyone 6y ago
He's also an adult himself and I believe was an adult when he was radicalized so that bit on "socialization" makes even less sense.

cvhashim 6y ago

It’s a bit jarring when the excuses pour out of the woodwork for white lone wolf shooters and terrorists. I don’t disagree with what you say about systemic failures in the health system, but on the other hand, it ignores the crisis of white, young men getting radicalized at alarming rates.

badconvincer 6y ago

Why would it be mental health? It’s a idealistic terrorist plain and simple. The very fact that you would suggest mental health issues is deeply disturbing.