3 ms·

Yeah but for how long? Unless Australia is willing to keep screening all arrivals and containing outbreaks indefinitely, Covid is gonna start circulating there

Yeah but for how long? Unless Australia is willing to keep screening all arrivals and containing outbreaks indefinitely, Covid is gonna start circulating there at some point.

taejo 6y ago
They could make proof of vaccination an entry requirement. Combine that with widespread domestic vaccination and you've got a very good chance of containing any infections that make it into the country.
- thinkingemote 6y ago
  vaccination doesn't mean you cannot get the virus and spread it around. it protects you from the effects of Covid-19, the disease, caused by your body's reaction to the virus. Those vaccinated, because they have less symptoms, less coughing basically, might not spread it around as much, but we don't know that yet. Remember asymptomatic spreading is a big concern for this virus.
  - nl 6y ago
    This is getting downvotes, but it is at least somewhat correct. > it protects you from the effects of Covid-19, the disease, caused by your body's reaction to the virus. There isn't really evidence either way for this. To quote Nature[1]: "Tests on more than 43,000 people have shown that the Pfizer vaccine is 95% effective at preventing disease" > vaccination doesn't mean you cannot get the virus and spread it around. This might be true: "But none has demonstrated that it prevents infection altogether, or reduces the spread of the virus in a population. This leaves open the chance that those who are vaccinated could remain susceptible to asymptomatic infection — and could transmit that infection to others who remain vulnerable. “In the worst-case scenario, you have people walking around feeling fine, but shedding virus everywhere" [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03441-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03441-8
    - weddpros 6y ago
      How can the vaccine prevent entry of the virus in cells, yet the virus can still replicate? I can’t understand why they state we don’t know, because of how I image viruses and vaccination works. Can someone help me understand this paradox?
      - bun_at_work 6y ago
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQGOcOUBi6s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQGOcOUBi6s Here's a nice video on the immune system that might help you out. Their other videos on the immune system, the complement system, and viruses might also be helpful. Not the most technical deep dives, but good, abstracted explanations. In short, I don't think the vaccine prevents entry of the virus into the cells. That still happens, as it's a mechanical protein interaction (as far as I know). However, the vaccine (mRNA ones at least) work by producing the protein on the outside of the virus and putting that in your system, so your immune system learns how to respond. At least that's my mile-high interpretation.
      - fakedang 6y ago
        I presume it's because of the inadvertent time delay in response by the immune system, during which time it would be possible to spread the virus.
  - taejo 6y ago
    You're right that the recent efficacy studies of the COVID vaccines only demonstrated protection from the disease. That doesn't mean that they do not prevent spreading the disease, only that we don't know whether they do. Presumably the reason for this choice of endpoint is that we can detect sickness, but we can't reliably detect transmission. If I may pick another nit, it's not asymptomatic but presymptomatic that seem to be the major concern, from what I've heard: that is, people who spread the disease will eventually show symptoms (usually within a day or two). The balance of evidence seems to suggest that people with viral loads that never get high enough to cause illness are probably not enough to cause a significant number of transmissions, but we will have to wait for widespread vaccination to confirm it.
iso1631 6y ago
Require proof of vaccine to come to Austraila. Native population mostly vaccinated. Even if someone did manage to get in with covid, it might not spread particularly easily. Sure covid will probably continue to exist, just like H1N1 exists
- dragontamer 6y ago
  > Sure covid will probably continue to exist, just like H1N1 exists Flu immunity only lasts 6 months. COVID immunity seems to already be longer than Flu / H1N1 immunity. Now if COVID immunity is only 1-year or 2-years, then yes, it will flare up over time. But if COVID immunity is like 5 years or 10 years, then we can pretty much forget-about-it after the vaccine. No one knows how long the immunity is, aside from lasting longer than any test so far.
  - iso1631 6y ago
    We still haven't eradicated measles despite a vaccine giving lifelong immunity so I suspect covid won't be eradicated any time soon. It won't be a problem for the vast majority of people either though
  - bun_at_work 6y ago
    What do you mean flu immunity only lasts 6mo? As I understand it, flu vaccines are done yearly due to mutations rendering the vaccine impotent for the next strain. However, it seems like you're implying that the vaccine "wears off" or something. What do you mean?
    - dragontamer 6y ago
      https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/keyfacts.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/keyfacts.htm > However, getting vaccinated early (for example, in July or August) is likely to be associated with reduced protection against flu infection later in the flu season, particularly among older adults August / July is too early, people's flu immunity wears off before the end of the season. This is well known.
dTal 6y ago
>Unless Australia is willing to keep screening all arrivals and containing outbreaks indefinitely It's possible. There is no rabies in the UK, for exactly this reason.
- mns 6y ago
  You don't get rabies by someone sneezing behind you in a poorly ventilated area.
howlgarnish 6y ago
Qantas (the Australian airline) has already announced that they intend to require COVID vaccination as a condition for boarding international flights: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/qantas-covid-19-vaccine-international-flights-passengers-13626308 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/qantas-covid-19-v... Australia is also not even letting citizens leave the country without special permission. I don't see them loosening up until there's actual herd immunity via vaccination in the country.
- Scoundreller 6y ago
  I think Australia lets you leave. It’s just really hard to get back.

Yeah but for how long? Unless Australia is willing to keep screening all arrivals and containing outbreaks indefinitely, Covid is gonna start circulating there at some point.

taejo 6y ago

They could make proof of vaccination an entry requirement. Combine that with widespread domestic vaccination and you've got a very good chance of containing any infections that make it into the country.

thinkingemote 6y ago
vaccination doesn't mean you cannot get the virus and spread it around. it protects you from the effects of Covid-19, the disease, caused by your body's reaction to the virus. Those vaccinated, because they have less symptoms, less coughing basically, might not spread it around as much, but we don't know that yet. Remember asymptomatic spreading is a big concern for this virus.
- nl 6y ago
  This is getting downvotes, but it is at least somewhat correct. > it protects you from the effects of Covid-19, the disease, caused by your body's reaction to the virus. There isn't really evidence either way for this. To quote Nature[1]: "Tests on more than 43,000 people have shown that the Pfizer vaccine is 95% effective at preventing disease" > vaccination doesn't mean you cannot get the virus and spread it around. This might be true: "But none has demonstrated that it prevents infection altogether, or reduces the spread of the virus in a population. This leaves open the chance that those who are vaccinated could remain susceptible to asymptomatic infection — and could transmit that infection to others who remain vulnerable. “In the worst-case scenario, you have people walking around feeling fine, but shedding virus everywhere" [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03441-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03441-8
  - weddpros 6y ago
    How can the vaccine prevent entry of the virus in cells, yet the virus can still replicate? I can’t understand why they state we don’t know, because of how I image viruses and vaccination works. Can someone help me understand this paradox?
    - bun_at_work 6y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQGOcOUBi6s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQGOcOUBi6s Here's a nice video on the immune system that might help you out. Their other videos on the immune system, the complement system, and viruses might also be helpful. Not the most technical deep dives, but good, abstracted explanations. In short, I don't think the vaccine prevents entry of the virus into the cells. That still happens, as it's a mechanical protein interaction (as far as I know). However, the vaccine (mRNA ones at least) work by producing the protein on the outside of the virus and putting that in your system, so your immune system learns how to respond. At least that's my mile-high interpretation.
    - fakedang 6y ago
      I presume it's because of the inadvertent time delay in response by the immune system, during which time it would be possible to spread the virus.
- taejo 6y ago
  You're right that the recent efficacy studies of the COVID vaccines only demonstrated protection from the disease. That doesn't mean that they do not prevent spreading the disease, only that we don't know whether they do. Presumably the reason for this choice of endpoint is that we can detect sickness, but we can't reliably detect transmission. If I may pick another nit, it's not asymptomatic but presymptomatic that seem to be the major concern, from what I've heard: that is, people who spread the disease will eventually show symptoms (usually within a day or two). The balance of evidence seems to suggest that people with viral loads that never get high enough to cause illness are probably not enough to cause a significant number of transmissions, but we will have to wait for widespread vaccination to confirm it.

iso1631 6y ago

Require proof of vaccine to come to Austraila. Native population mostly vaccinated. Even if someone did manage to get in with covid, it might not spread particularly easily. Sure covid will probably continue to exist, just like H1N1 exists

dragontamer 6y ago
> Sure covid will probably continue to exist, just like H1N1 exists Flu immunity only lasts 6 months. COVID immunity seems to already be longer than Flu / H1N1 immunity. Now if COVID immunity is only 1-year or 2-years, then yes, it will flare up over time. But if COVID immunity is like 5 years or 10 years, then we can pretty much forget-about-it after the vaccine. No one knows how long the immunity is, aside from lasting longer than any test so far.
- iso1631 6y ago
  We still haven't eradicated measles despite a vaccine giving lifelong immunity so I suspect covid won't be eradicated any time soon. It won't be a problem for the vast majority of people either though
- bun_at_work 6y ago
  What do you mean flu immunity only lasts 6mo? As I understand it, flu vaccines are done yearly due to mutations rendering the vaccine impotent for the next strain. However, it seems like you're implying that the vaccine "wears off" or something. What do you mean?
  - dragontamer 6y ago
    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/keyfacts.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/keyfacts.htm > However, getting vaccinated early (for example, in July or August) is likely to be associated with reduced protection against flu infection later in the flu season, particularly among older adults August / July is too early, people's flu immunity wears off before the end of the season. This is well known.

dTal 6y ago

>Unless Australia is willing to keep screening all arrivals and containing outbreaks indefinitely It's possible. There is no rabies in the UK, for exactly this reason.

mns 6y ago
You don't get rabies by someone sneezing behind you in a poorly ventilated area.

howlgarnish 6y ago

Qantas (the Australian airline) has already announced that they intend to require COVID vaccination as a condition for boarding international flights: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/qantas-covid-19-vaccine-international-flights-passengers-13626308 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/qantas-covid-19-v... Australia is also not even letting citizens leave the country without special permission. I don't see them loosening up until there's actual herd immunity via vaccination in the country.

Scoundreller 6y ago
I think Australia lets you leave. It’s just really hard to get back.