6 ms·

"Break the rules. Officials may try to deter you from using passages, ladders or stairwells. Ignore them. If you need to kick open a door or pick a lock, do it.

"Break the rules. Officials may try to deter you from using passages, ladders or stairwells. Ignore them. If you need to kick open a door or pick a lock, do it." I would say that in general, when a ship is in danger of sinking, hatches are closed and dogged off for a reason, usually to control flooding, so this is a really bad advice. On the other hand, when a hatch is secured, you usually can't open it from one side, so if you are on the side that can lock, you are probably better off looking for another door.

Spooky23 6y ago
Whats bad for the whole might be better for you. People in the WTC were told to chill out, no worries, all is well. Screw that — if something hits the fan, I will gtfo.
- s5300 6y ago
  I was in the Ritz-Carlson in DTLA last year for Anime expo. Waiting on the third floor for a convention with atleast 200 people just in that one smaller area, all of the sudden, a live voice came over the intercom with instructions to immediately evacuate the building, all but essential staff. In my mind it seemed as serious as if there was an active shooter somewhere. I was literally the only person in the group to fucking book it to a fire exit. Everybody else was just casually standing in line, like you seriously couldn't make up how serious they made the situation sound and how little just about everybody did to care. It was over in about 5 minutes, I never heard any explanation as to why it had happened aside from a rumour that somebody was vaping in the lobby and did not leave when asked to. And this is like, the biggest hotel in DTLA, during a massive convention. Not entirely relevant... but weird ass experience. People react to things strangely.
  - gear54rus 6y ago
    Don't know about you but in my country they test and test those system relentlessly so you get "boy who cried wolf" situation. Not sure how to avoid that.
    - WalterBright 6y ago
      That's when you append "this is not a drill".
    - bluGill 6y ago
      In my country they do the drills every year, the day - but not the time is announced in advanced. Everyone knows that they will be checking that everyone gets out, so we all leave and gather in our assigned locations and enjoy a paid break outside. They schedule these for good weather so getting outside is a nice break. This way people take it seriously, but don't panic. We know from experience that someone will be outside with a checklist to make sure we all leave. There are scientific practices behind the above. I suggest you get your country on board with those so that people take the alarm seriously.
  - tdeck 6y ago
    Once I was in the Newark Airport (never again, hopefully) when the fire alarm started going off. As I looked for an exit I noticed nobody was doing anything, and it continued to go off with at high volume with no announcement and no guidance from anyone for a full 20 minutes. I ended up staying because I didn't know what to do and didn't want to miss my flight.
  - 3pt14159 6y ago
    Very few people internalize the OODA loop. I've reacted fast in situations and it saved lives, but I wasn't born that way. I had trained for years as a kid in a program literally called Life Savers[0] which taught swimming in contexts where others are drowning, first aid including CPR, and how to react in situations like burning buildings and downed electrical lines. One of the first things they tell you is that untrained people react to chaos by freezing and that because most people are untrained this collective freeze is enforced by social pressure. So you need to point and yell in order to get people organized and moving. For example, when I was giving mouth-to-mouth to someone I pointed and yelled at one person to get me a medic and they just stared blankly back at me, so I pointed and yelled at the person standing next to them and he jumped into action. It takes focus and leadership, but it's vital during a crisis. [0] https://lifesaverscanada.com/ https://lifesaverscanada.com/
    - s5300 6y ago
      Yeah, I grew up with a hobby that basically entailed... extreme hypervigilance, quick decision making, and leadership initiative. Seems to have ingrained itself deeply within me having participated in it somewhat religiously from 10-18. Sometimes I regret it a bit as it's made me pretty much always alert/hyperaware of my surroundings.
      - 3pt14159 6y ago
        Haha, yeah I know what you mean. It also makes it hard to be a passenger in a car with an inattentive or distracted driver.
        jacquesm 6y ago
        More than once I've asked someone to stop their vehicle so I could get out and arrange for an alternative transport. Either that or let me drive but no way I'm going to be a passenger in a car that has a driver that isn't on the job.
- gregoriol 6y ago
  People in Grenfell tower in UK were also told to shelter in place, that sadly didn't work very well... Those procedures (plane evacuations, high-rises, ...) are designed for "best" conditions, when an emergency goes by the plan; but when something goes really wrong (plane breaks in two, huge building fire, ...), you better get out of there by any means.
JimTheMan 6y ago
I remember being in Anson, when it was reported a Korean Ferry going to Jeju hit a rock and started taking on water. The captain reported on the radio," everyone stay put." and for the most part they did, even while the captain was escaping the ship. 299 people drowned that day, many of them the local school in Anson. I remember walking past the highschool that very night and seeing the crowd of the bereaved. If more of those people chose to disobey a very strange order on a ship, more would have lived. It's important to know when a situation has really become an emergency and normal rules like, "listen to the captain even if he doesn't make sense" stop applying. The earlier you are able to recognise that shit has hit the fan and enter emergency rule breaking mode the better. In everyday life, I definitely notice that people do not take say, fire alarm seriously and act quickly enough. Don't be a deer caught in the spotlight, forge your own path and take these things seriously your life may depend on it (even if its 1% chance that that alarm is a real one). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_MV_Sewol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_MV_Sewol
- cyberlurker 6y ago
  I’m glad you brought it up but you are doing a great disservice to this tragedy by saying the ferry simply hit a rock. It was criminally overloaded. There were payoffs for inspections. The CEO had connections to the president and was found dead in a field. There is a lot more to it. And yes the kids stayed inside the ship, following orders until it was far too late. It still makes me sick.
  - JimTheMan 6y ago
    The link has all the detail in it. I probably should have reviewed, but I am remembering details from the day it happened years ago. For the purposes of keeping the lesson brief, I feel justified. If I remember correctly, he also tried took a shortcut too because he was running late...
- tomc1985 6y ago
  I saw cellphone videos taken inside the ship when this happened. The kids were highspirited and jovial for the circumstances. It was really creepy to watch

Spooky23 6y ago

Whats bad for the whole might be better for you. People in the WTC were told to chill out, no worries, all is well. Screw that — if something hits the fan, I will gtfo.

s5300 6y ago
I was in the Ritz-Carlson in DTLA last year for Anime expo. Waiting on the third floor for a convention with atleast 200 people just in that one smaller area, all of the sudden, a live voice came over the intercom with instructions to immediately evacuate the building, all but essential staff. In my mind it seemed as serious as if there was an active shooter somewhere. I was literally the only person in the group to fucking book it to a fire exit. Everybody else was just casually standing in line, like you seriously couldn't make up how serious they made the situation sound and how little just about everybody did to care. It was over in about 5 minutes, I never heard any explanation as to why it had happened aside from a rumour that somebody was vaping in the lobby and did not leave when asked to. And this is like, the biggest hotel in DTLA, during a massive convention. Not entirely relevant... but weird ass experience. People react to things strangely.
- gear54rus 6y ago
  Don't know about you but in my country they test and test those system relentlessly so you get "boy who cried wolf" situation. Not sure how to avoid that.
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    That's when you append "this is not a drill".
  - bluGill 6y ago
    In my country they do the drills every year, the day - but not the time is announced in advanced. Everyone knows that they will be checking that everyone gets out, so we all leave and gather in our assigned locations and enjoy a paid break outside. They schedule these for good weather so getting outside is a nice break. This way people take it seriously, but don't panic. We know from experience that someone will be outside with a checklist to make sure we all leave. There are scientific practices behind the above. I suggest you get your country on board with those so that people take the alarm seriously.
- tdeck 6y ago
  Once I was in the Newark Airport (never again, hopefully) when the fire alarm started going off. As I looked for an exit I noticed nobody was doing anything, and it continued to go off with at high volume with no announcement and no guidance from anyone for a full 20 minutes. I ended up staying because I didn't know what to do and didn't want to miss my flight.
- 3pt14159 6y ago
  Very few people internalize the OODA loop. I've reacted fast in situations and it saved lives, but I wasn't born that way. I had trained for years as a kid in a program literally called Life Savers[0] which taught swimming in contexts where others are drowning, first aid including CPR, and how to react in situations like burning buildings and downed electrical lines. One of the first things they tell you is that untrained people react to chaos by freezing and that because most people are untrained this collective freeze is enforced by social pressure. So you need to point and yell in order to get people organized and moving. For example, when I was giving mouth-to-mouth to someone I pointed and yelled at one person to get me a medic and they just stared blankly back at me, so I pointed and yelled at the person standing next to them and he jumped into action. It takes focus and leadership, but it's vital during a crisis. [0] https://lifesaverscanada.com/ https://lifesaverscanada.com/
  - s5300 6y ago
    Yeah, I grew up with a hobby that basically entailed... extreme hypervigilance, quick decision making, and leadership initiative. Seems to have ingrained itself deeply within me having participated in it somewhat religiously from 10-18. Sometimes I regret it a bit as it's made me pretty much always alert/hyperaware of my surroundings.
    - 3pt14159 6y ago
      Haha, yeah I know what you mean. It also makes it hard to be a passenger in a car with an inattentive or distracted driver.
      - jacquesm 6y ago
        More than once I've asked someone to stop their vehicle so I could get out and arrange for an alternative transport. Either that or let me drive but no way I'm going to be a passenger in a car that has a driver that isn't on the job.
gregoriol 6y ago
People in Grenfell tower in UK were also told to shelter in place, that sadly didn't work very well... Those procedures (plane evacuations, high-rises, ...) are designed for "best" conditions, when an emergency goes by the plan; but when something goes really wrong (plane breaks in two, huge building fire, ...), you better get out of there by any means.

JimTheMan 6y ago

I remember being in Anson, when it was reported a Korean Ferry going to Jeju hit a rock and started taking on water. The captain reported on the radio," everyone stay put." and for the most part they did, even while the captain was escaping the ship. 299 people drowned that day, many of them the local school in Anson. I remember walking past the highschool that very night and seeing the crowd of the bereaved. If more of those people chose to disobey a very strange order on a ship, more would have lived. It's important to know when a situation has really become an emergency and normal rules like, "listen to the captain even if he doesn't make sense" stop applying. The earlier you are able to recognise that shit has hit the fan and enter emergency rule breaking mode the better. In everyday life, I definitely notice that people do not take say, fire alarm seriously and act quickly enough. Don't be a deer caught in the spotlight, forge your own path and take these things seriously your life may depend on it (even if its 1% chance that that alarm is a real one). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_MV_Sewol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_MV_Sewol

cyberlurker 6y ago
I’m glad you brought it up but you are doing a great disservice to this tragedy by saying the ferry simply hit a rock. It was criminally overloaded. There were payoffs for inspections. The CEO had connections to the president and was found dead in a field. There is a lot more to it. And yes the kids stayed inside the ship, following orders until it was far too late. It still makes me sick.
- JimTheMan 6y ago
  The link has all the detail in it. I probably should have reviewed, but I am remembering details from the day it happened years ago. For the purposes of keeping the lesson brief, I feel justified. If I remember correctly, he also tried took a shortcut too because he was running late...
tomc1985 6y ago
I saw cellphone videos taken inside the ship when this happened. The kids were highspirited and jovial for the circumstances. It was really creepy to watch